[0.17.66] misleading error message when trying to use the temporary train destination

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vujak
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[0.17.66] misleading error message when trying to use the temporary train destination

Post by vujak » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:13 pm

Hi all, I'm not sure it's a bug or a misunderstanding of mine, but here it goes:

I was trying to use the the temporary destination for trains for the first time, so I got INTO a train, went to MAP MODE and tried to ctrl+click where I wanted to go... only the see a error message of "no route"... then I went checking for some wrong placed signal and all... all was right!!! and the automatic trains were all coming and going without a problem... I simple gave up and went driving the train manually as always...

some hours later I though to ctrl+click in the train window map and voila, it worked!!! know it's clear to me how to use this new feature!!!

BUT the message in map mode was quite misleading to me!!! Why give a message of "no route" if you are in map mode? I would expect no message at all as is normal when you click somewhere and the click is useless... or a message like "you must be in the train window to do that" if you want to help new players...

Thanks for the great game!!! Love it!!!

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Re: [0.17.66] misleading error message when trying to use the temporary train destination

Post by Bilka » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:20 pm

vujak wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:13 pm
I was trying to use the the temporary destination for trains for the first time, so I got INTO a train, went to MAP MODE and tried to ctrl+click where I wanted to go... only the see a error message of "no route".
I cannot reproduce this, the ctrk + click just does nothing in the normal map (M).
I'm an admin over at https://wiki.factorio.com. Feel free to contact me if there's anything wrong (or right) with it.

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Re: [0.17.66] misleading error message when trying to use the temporary train destination

Post by boskid » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:30 pm

I bet this is related to 73377, but there is no save to confirm

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Re: [0.17.66] misleading error message when trying to use the temporary train destination

Post by vujak » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:35 pm

@boskid, I stopped reading at "put a train in a location where it cannot path to anywhere" as that is not the case, there are trains coming and going in my network....

@Bilka, I first go inside the train (ENTER) I want and then go to map mode (M)... nothing happening was what I would expect now... I will try again later today and add more details!
Last edited by vujak on Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [0.17.66] misleading error message when trying to use the temporary train destination

Post by boskid » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:38 pm

vujak wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:35 pm
@boskid, I stopped reading at "put a train in a location where it cannot path to anywhere" as that is not the case, there are trains coming and going in my network....
Main part of that topic is this:
SupplyDepoo wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:16 am
Here's a visual demonstration: https://streamable.com/ixwpr
If you hit "no path" error but train is moving, it may be that train network did not contain loops that could allow train to go reach station without need to stop and run in opposite direction

-- edit:
If train is in manual mode, when trying to set temporary train destination, path finding will check both directions, but when train is moving, only direction train currently travels is considered. If train network contains no loops, then it may be that train cannot reach station without reversing. Path finding does not check for paths with reversing in between.
Last edited by boskid on Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [0.17.66] misleading error message when trying to use the temporary train destination

Post by vujak » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:46 pm

@boskid, no, that is not the case, my trains go only forward... and anyway, after I learned the right way of using this feature the train goes where I want!!!

the problem is not that something doesn't work, it's that if you use it incorrectly it gives a message that is misleading...

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Re: [0.17.66] misleading error message when trying to use the temporary train destination

Post by Mooncat » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:50 pm

vujak wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:46 pm
@boskid, no, that is not the case, my trains go only forward... and anyway, after I learned the right way of using this feature the train goes where I want!!!

the problem is not that something doesn't work, it's that if you use it incorrectly it gives a message that is misleading...
I think you should mention what your mistake was, and even better, show your suggestion of error message if you think the current one is misleading. ;)
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Re: [0.17.66] misleading error message when trying to use the temporary train destination

Post by vujak » Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:17 pm

@Mooncat, ?????

from my first post:

Code: Select all

Why give a message of "no route" if you are in map mode? I would expect no message at all as is normal when you click somewhere and the click is useless... or a message like "you must be in the train window to do that" if you want to help new players...

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Re: [0.17.66] misleading error message when trying to use the temporary train destination

Post by boskid » Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:53 pm

Can you please post log file? I cannot reproduce this "no route" error with ctrl+click on map. I suspect you may be using some mods that are doing this.

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Re: [0.17.66] misleading error message when trying to use the temporary train destination

Post by vujak » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:15 pm

@boskid, yes, later today I will post the log...

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Re: [0.17.66] misleading error message when trying to use the temporary train destination

Post by Mooncat » Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:57 pm

vujak wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:17 pm
@Mooncat, ?????

from my first post:

Code: Select all

Why give a message of "no route" if you are in map mode? I would expect no message at all as is normal when you click somewhere and the click is useless... or a message like "you must be in the train window to do that" if you want to help new players...
Oh, didn't read it carefully, sorry. Now I think I understand what you meant.
Did the "no route" message look like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giXVU9YS9yU
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Re: [0.17.66] misleading error message when trying to use the temporary train destination

Post by vujak » Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:55 pm

Like that https://streamable.com/m1gkn

The video is a bit lag but I think it's good enough to show what is happening, if you want a better one I will try to make another one...

And really sorry, the message is "can't reach" and not "no route"!!!! my bad!!!

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Re: [0.17.66] misleading error message when trying to use the temporary train destination

Post by boskid » Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:17 am

Not a bug

In no sense this is related to trains.

"can't reach" is alert of player not able to build/mine something because of players character limited reach. Ctrl+LMB in that sense is hotkey for "Inventory > Fast entity transfer" and this is why you have this "can't reach" message. If anything could be improved, it would be that "Fast entity transfer" should not give "can't reach" message when entity from which you want to transfer stuff, does not contain inventory slots (even if it is out of reach). Rails do not contain inventory slots, at least in base game.

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Re: [0.17.66] misleading error message when trying to use the temporary train destination

Post by vujak » Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:46 am

I see your point... but I still think it's misleading for new players!!!
But I agree that there is no easy solution... Thanks!

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Re: [0.17.66] misleading error message when trying to use the temporary train destination

Post by jodokus31 » Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:56 am

Just as little side note.
The first time, I tried to use this feature, was similar:
- Jump in the train
- Enter map mode
- Try to select destination, which didn't work obviously. I knew, that the train route should be presented, so it was enough feedback for me, that it didn't show up.

But, I'm still sometimes confused, switching around different views freneticly out of muscle memory and cannot get the correct one :P
I'm not sure, what could be done to make it even more intuitive, but i think, I will learn it some day :roll:

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Re: [0.17.66] misleading error message when trying to use the temporary train destination

Post by BlueTemplar » Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:09 pm

Yeah, it would be really nice to be able to give the train that you're in move orders in the (normal) map.... (and why not, regular view ?)
Or just select a train without opening it and give move orders...

Not sure if there are any free keyboard shortcuts for that... maybe a pointer tool ?

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