[0.15.10] Low Resource "size" setting can reduce effective frequency significantly

[doktorstick]

I'm hoping that the algorithms guarantee resources and it's not purely pot luck. I created a world with this exchange string:

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>>>AAAPAAoAAwABBQcAAAAEAAAAY29hbAIDAwoAAABjb3BwZXItb3Jl
AgMDCQAAAGNydWRlLW9pbAIBBQoAAABlbmVteS1iYXNlAgMDCAAAAGl
yb24tb3JlAgMDBQAAAHN0b25lAgMDCwAAAHVyYW5pdW0tb3JlAgMDDk
GK6oCEHgCAhB4AAwABAQF7FK5H4XqUPwEAAAAAAAAuQAEAAAAAAADwP
wEAAAAAAFi7QAEAAAAAAOCFQAEAAAAAAFirQAEAAAAAAIjDQAEAAAAA
AECfQAEAAAAAAEB/QAEAAAAAAECPQAEzMzMzMzPzPwEzMzMzMzPzPwF
7FK5H4Xp0PwEAAQAAAAAAAAhAAQAAAAAAAAhAAXsUrkfheoQ/AQABAQ
EAAAAAAAAAAAH8qfHSTWJgPwFpHVVNEHXvPgEBAQcAAAABAgAAAAECA
AAAAZqZmZmZmbk/AQAAAAAAAABAAQAAAAAAAOA/AZqZmZmZmdk/Ac3M
zMzMzOw/AQUAAAABFAAAAAFAOAAAAcBLAwABEA4AAAGgjAAAASAcAAA
BAAAAAAAAPkABAAAAAAAAFEABZmZmZmZm9j8BMzMzMzMz4z8BMzMzMz
Mz0z8BAAAAAAAACEABAAAAAAAAJEABPAAAAAEeAAAAAcgAAAABBQAAA
AEAAAAAAAAAQAEBAQAAAAAAAFlAAQUAAAABGQAAAAEAAAAAAAAkQAEy
AAAAAQAAAAAAAD5AAWQAAAABmpmZmZmZyT8BMzMzMzMzwz8BMzMzMzM
z0z8BMzMzMzMz0z8BAAAAAAAAJEABAAAAAAAANEABAAAAAAAAPkABAA
AAAAAAFEABAAAAAAAAPkABAAAAAAAAJEABAAAAAAAACEABCgAAAAFkA
AAAAWQAAAAB6AMAAAEAAAAAAADgPwHQBwAAAQAAAAAAQH9AAwAAAAAA
AAAAAAAA8D+8N5lA<<<

This has oil set as Low, Very small, Very good. Additionally, all of the other frequencies are Low as well except for water--it's Very low. I've uncovered a rather sizable area, even downloading the Big Brother mod to help push out the visibility since I wasn't finding any oil. Still nada. it's unreasonable that several hours into a game with such a large area uncovered that a Low setting resource isn't available, especially when compared to the prevalence of the other Low resources.

[doktorstick]

There's definitely something wonky with the generator. I disabled all my mods (none should affect resource generation) and created the same settings and nothing.

I then loaded the map exchange string from the previous post. No oil in the starting area nor in any starting areas when I "Restart". I then quit back to the main menu, create a new game and again no oil in the starting area. This time I use the command:

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/c game.forces.player.chart(game.player.surface, {lefttop = {x = -2048, y = -2048}, rightbottom = {x = 2048, y = 2048}})

to uncover the map and observe no oil. I "Restart" and run the command again--no oil. I do this two more times all with no oil. This string is:

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>>>AAAPAAoAAwABBQcAAAAEAAAAY29hbAIDAwoAAABjb3BwZXItb3Jl
AgMDCQAAAGNydWRlLW9pbAIBBQoAAABlbmVteS1iYXNlAgMDCAAAAGl
yb24tb3JlAgMDBQAAAHN0b25lAgMDCwAAAHVyYW5pdW0tb3JlAgMDXx
l0c4CEHgCAhB4AAwABAQF7FK5H4XqUPwEAAAAAAAAuQAEAAAAAAADwP
wEAAAAAAFi7QAEAAAAAAOCFQAEAAAAAAFirQAEAAAAAAIjDQAEAAAAA
AECfQAEAAAAAAEB/QAEAAAAAAECPQAEzMzMzMzPzPwEzMzMzMzPzPwF
7FK5H4Xp0PwEAAQAAAAAAAAhAAQAAAAAAAAhAAXsUrkfheoQ/AQABAQ
EAAAAAAAAAAAEAAAAAAAAAAAFpHVVNEHXvPgEBAQcAAAABAgAAAAECA
AAAAZqZmZmZmbk/AQAAAAAAAABAAQAAAAAAAOA/AZqZmZmZmdk/Ac3M
zMzMzOw/AQUAAAABFAAAAAFAOAAAAcBLAwABEA4AAAGgjAAAASAcAAA
BAAAAAAAAPkABAAAAAAAAFEABZmZmZmZm9j8BMzMzMzMz4z8BMzMzMz
Mz0z8BAAAAAAAACEABAAAAAAAAJEABPAAAAAEeAAAAAcgAAAABBQAAA
AEAAAAAAAAAQAEBAQAAAAAAAFlAAQUAAAABGQAAAAEAAAAAAAAkQAEy
AAAAAQAAAAAAAD5AAWQAAAABmpmZmZmZyT8BMzMzMzMzwz8BMzMzMzM
z0z8BMzMzMzMz0z8BAAAAAAAAJEABAAAAAAAANEABAAAAAAAAPkABAA
AAAAAAFEABAAAAAAAAPkABAAAAAAAAJEABAAAAAAAACEABCgAAAAFkA
AAAAWQAAAAB6AMAAAEAAAAAAADgPwHQBwAAAQAAAAAAQH9AAwAAAAAA
AAAAAAAA8D+bcShv<<<

I once again quit out to the main menu and start a new game with the same settings, same procedures. No oil.

I exit all the way out of the game, restart (still no mods) with oil Low, Very Small, Very Big and once again nada after three restarts + console command sweep. This string is:

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>>>AAAPAAoAAwABBQcAAAAEAAAAY29hbAEEAwoAAABjb3BwZXItb3Jl
AQQDCQAAAGNydWRlLW9pbAIBBQoAAABlbmVteS1iYXNlAgMDCAAAAGl
yb24tb3JlAQQDBQAAAHN0b25lAQMFCwAAAHVyYW5pdW0tb3JlAgQD7p
TRv4CEHgCAhB4AAwABAQF7FK5H4XqUPwEAAAAAAAAuQAEAAAAAAADwP
wEAAAAAAFi7QAEAAAAAAOCFQAEAAAAAAFirQAEAAAAAAIjDQAEAAAAA
AECfQAEAAAAAAEB/QAEAAAAAAECPQAEzMzMzMzPzPwEzMzMzMzPzPwF
7FK5H4Xp0PwEAAQAAAAAAAAhAAQAAAAAAAAhAAXsUrkfheoQ/AQABAQ
GN7bWg98bAPgH8qfHSTWJgPwFpHVVNEHXvPgEAAQcAAAABAgAAAAECA
AAAAZqZmZmZmbk/AQAAAAAAAABAAQAAAAAAAOA/AZqZmZmZmdk/Ac3M
zMzMzOw/AQUAAAABFAAAAAFAOAAAAcBLAwABEA4AAAGgjAAAASAcAAA
BAAAAAAAAPkABAAAAAAAAFEABZmZmZmZm9j8BMzMzMzMz4z8BMzMzMz
Mz0z8BAAAAAAAACEABAAAAAAAAJEABPAAAAAEeAAAAAcgAAAABBQAAA
AEAAAAAAAAAQAEBAQAAAAAAAFlAAQUAAAABGQAAAAEAAAAAAAAkQAEy
AAAAAQAAAAAAAD5AAWQAAAABmpmZmZmZyT8BMzMzMzMzwz8BMzMzMzM
z0z8BMzMzMzMz0z8BAAAAAAAAJEABAAAAAAAANEABAAAAAAAAPkABAA
AAAAAAFEABAAAAAAAAPkABAAAAAAAAJEABAAAAAAAACEABCgAAAAFkA
AAAAWQAAAAB6AMAAAEAAAAAAADgPwHQBwAAAQAAAAAAQH9AAwAAAAAA
AAAAAAAA8D8EjzCV<<<

I did some more experiments increasing the size to Small and about every third or so restart the map would have oil patches. It's almost as if some math is being done with the frequency + size and if it is below a threshold it doesn't have a patch... instead of honoring the frequency first and then creating single, solitary patches to indicate the size.

[Loewchen]

The map from the original map exchange string does produce oil patches, but they are far out.
Edit: It seems that the size setting for the oil fields has influence on patches being created at all, or in other words there is a high chance when choosing the very small size that most of the fields will have no oil patches at all.

[doktorstick]

Edit: It seems that the size setting for the oil fields has influence on patches being created at all, or in other words there is a high chance when choosing the very small size that most of the fields will have no oil patches at all.

Yeah, that's pretty much the conclusion I came to toward the end of my testing (see bottom of second post). I would definitely call that a bug. Frequency and size should be orthogonal properties.

[Rseding91]

Unless I'm missing something this is simply how noise-based resource generation works. https://wiki.factorio.com/World_generator does a nice job of explaining it.

When you reduce the size of a patch you reduce the frequency as well because it's smaller the pieces of that patch that would have generated now don't because they're not there in a smaller resource patch size.

Less frequent means it doesn't show up as often. Less size means they're smaller and don't show up as often, apply either to a resource we've already tweaked to not be that common on normal settings means you almost never see them.

Simply don't use those settings if you don't want what you're seeing to happen.

Unless we completely ditch the noise-based system (unlikely) that's just how it is.

[doktorstick]

Less frequent means it doesn't show up as often. Less size means they're smaller and don't show up as often, apply either to a resource we've already tweaked to not be that common on normal settings means you almost never see them.

Taking off your developer hat for a moment and putting on the customer's, isn't this confusing? Both frequency and size controls how often it shows up[1]. Those words don't mean the same (where's my Inigo Montoya meme). They are very term-of-art, which isn't for your average never-heard-of-a-noise-generator player.

[1] And after reading the wiki, both control the size, too.