[0.13.10] Strange starting area map generation

[Xeteth]

Not a massive issue but this map seems to have generated with a circle around the player in the starting area, thought it worth reporting.



Map exchange string:

Code: Select all

>>>AAANAAoABgACBAYAAAAEAAAAY29hbAMDAwoAAABjb3BwZXItb3Jl
AwMDCQAAAGNydWRlLW9pbAMDAwoAAABlbmVteS1iYXNlAwMDCAAAAGl
yb24tb3JlAwMDBQAAAHN0b25lAwMDQE7pBYCEHgCAhB4AAwBuHYBU<<
<

[Rseding91]

That's by design, it helps against the "I started on an island" issue.

[steinio]

That's by design, it helps against the "I started on an island" issue.

Nice idea, but looks more quick and dirty intead of natural coast design.

You see, the amount of posts will be the same, they only change from 'i'm stuck on an island' to 'My coast is a circle'

[Rahbek]

Maybe a bug after all tho?

I often save good maps before i start building on them in case i want to start over later for wahtever reason or build a different factory but liked the layout of land.
When doing so i noticed that strange or unnatural shapes are also generated outside of the starting area on maps that where generated pre 13.10 but explored after 13.10 compared to the same area pre 13.10

comparions pictures of pre and after 13.10 exploration
http://imgur.com/a/bJyLC

I might be using a bunch of mods but Aside from RSO none of them is involved in map generation to my knowledge

[nonstickfrypan]

Surely there is a better solution than drawing a big circle

[daniel34]

When doing so i noticed that strange or unnatural shapes are also generated outside of the starting area on maps that where generated pre 13.10 but explored after 13.10 compared to the same area pre 13.10

comparions pictures of pre and after 13.10 exploration
http://imgur.com/a/bJyLC

That's expected behavior, the same happened with 0.12.35 --> 0.13.0.
The map generation works independent from the area around it, it produces a new chunk according to its algorithm. in 0.13.9 the area on both sides of the line would be water, in 0.13.10 it would be land. Because half of it was generated in 0.13.9 and the other half in 0.13.10 you see such a divide.

[Rahbek]

When doing so i noticed that strange or unnatural shapes are also generated outside of the starting area on maps that where generated pre 13.10 but explored after 13.10 compared to the same area pre 13.10

comparions pictures of pre and after 13.10 exploration
http://imgur.com/a/bJyLC

That's expected behavior, the same happened with 0.12.35 --> 0.13.0.
The map generation works independent from the area around it, it produces a new chunk according to its algorithm. in 0.13.9 the area on both sides of the line would be water, in 0.13.10 it would be land. Because half of it was generated in 0.13.9 and the other half in 0.13.10 you see such a divide.

Alright, good to know - it's just kinda sad because its ugly and looks unnatural with such straight lines Maybe you could integrate a feature into map generation, that prevents bodies of water from having long straight lines as coast if possible?
Also the circle solution gives quite regularely maps with bodies of water or coasts that are looking unnaturally because of it and thus kinda makes the map obsolete for me. That means probably 20-25% of all generated maps are instantly not relevant for me and unnecessarily increase the effort to find a good one. While I can imagine, that it is to some peoples liking I would say that given the fact that the game takes place on a supposedly untouched planet it should feel like a natural environment and not one that features quite drastic geometric shapes - After all we are the ones doing slight terraforming by using landfills
Also i still ended up on an very small island a few times when i was generating maps to find a suitable new map without obvious geometric shapes.

[TruePikachu]

it's just kinda sad because its ugly and looks unnatural with such straight lines Maybe you could integrate a feature into map generation, that prevents bodies of water from having long straight lines as coast if possible?

The problem with this is that the chunk generation must be deterministic based solely on seed and coordinates. It must not depend on any already-generated chunks, which is what you are proposing -- breaking that requirement makes the generator non-deterministic, since the seed will have different results depending on what sequence chunks are generated in.

I'm fairly certain this subissue would be categorized as "Won't fix."

[nonstickfrypan]

I really think this should be re-categorized as a bug. It's not a bug in the traditional sense but, IMO, it's certainly a kludge (and a fairly ugly and visible one at that). A better solution would be to leave the terrain generation as-is (without stamping a circle on top of it) and move the starting position of the character if necessary.

[Rahbek]

The problem with this is that the chunk generation must be deterministic based solely on seed and coordinates. It must not depend on any already-generated chunks, which is what you are proposing -- breaking that requirement makes the generator non-deterministic, since the seed will have different results depending on what sequence chunks are generated in.

I'm fairly certain this subissue would be categorized as "Won't fix."

@nonstickfrypan:
I would very much agree with you.

@TruePikachu:
Just because it is deterministic doesnt mean that you can't include rules to bend the rules. All I am proposing would a check on newly generated chunks that alters the formula on demand. The same circumstances should alyways trigger the same change to the formula - a potential approach could look something like this:
You include a scan on newly generated chunks for straight lines (especially on water bodies) and if detected generate a replacement chunk using the same seed + a predeterminded fixed numer (e.g. first/last one/two/x numbers of the seed). This approach would still be the same every time around and you could at least give it a 2nd chance on coming up with a more natural chunk that way. Potentially you could run the same check on the new chunk and if necessary use that approach multiple times (adding the same number every time to the previous sum) till the chunk checks out okay.

I am sure it's far from a perfect solution and might create entirely different problems on its own (how does the new chunk look style wise compared to its neighbours, how does it connect to them, ...) but it is meant as an example that there should be potential solutions that still hold true to the deterministic nature of the game