0.17.50 Campaign Feedback From an Experienced Guy Pretending to be New
Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:51 pm
Hey, recently played (partway, see end of post) through the new campaign for the first time. For those who don't know me, I used to be the head admin over on the wiki. I've got a pretty good amount of experience with the game, but to play this campaign, I pretended I was new to the game, as I figured that opinion would be more useful. I've made a list of things that I noticed while playing the "Arrival" level of the campaign, some annoyances I ran into, etc. Really important things are in bold. This is gonna be fairly long, because I believe in comprehensive feedback. :D
- Having to refuel every random inserter and furnace while trying to do an objective is distracting, will slow or confuse new players. Furnaces and miners are fine, but player should be given electric inserters instead. I do notice that you can research them, but no prompt is made to research them. New players aren't going to reopen the research screen to check if they could research something else. Hell, I didn't, until I encountered the frustration with burner inserters. New players are going to thing that burner inserters is all there is.
- Copper ore is not explained, should be pointed out on map and explained that it works the same as iron
- Tech screen is completely unexplained, doesn't explain that game is paused while viewing
- Red assembly machine for sci packs isn't highlighted, players might get confused as to how they're supposed to get packs
- No indicator for research stopping due to out-of-packs
- Concept that burner inserters have implicit fuel when placed isn't explained, new players might place one then forget to fuel it
- No indicator pointing to compilatron's location, could be lost if the player doesn't know to zoom out
- More hints button should clarify on existing objectives, not just list previous tips (have other button for that)
- While funny, nothing stopping player from running into worms and dying
- Escape pod blackbox not highlighted on tech screen, could be missed
- If player happens to click on electric network screen, isn't explained. Either disable or tie it in to the tutorial as soon as it's possible to view
- Objectives are shown unintuitively, players look at top item first and go to do it, only to find that they can't and have to do a subtask first. Show tasks in order top to bottom, like a list of steps.
- "Collect some equipment" doesn't clarify that the factory should be mined up
- Rebuilding factory part doesn't explain that you need to throw everything back down to make packs and circuits and the like
- Concept that assembly machines only make up to a certain amount before needing emptying isn't explained
- Concept that more labs = more speed isn't explained, gonna bore people to death, especially during the "rebuild" and "military" stages
- Needs a "give me more help" button, to have compilatron help you. Too much waiting for prompts.
- Quick bar isn't explained when it pops up
- Too much god damn waiting for research. I literally would go AFK if I was a new player. Ways to speed things up NEEDS explaining. I had to suspend my "new player roleplay" so I could build a proper factory to research things in reasonable time. No good, a new player wouldn't think "hey, I should build more furnaces and whatnot so this goes faster" without being prompted. (nevermind, I see the tip now. After I've waited quite some time. That should be prompted immediately, so the player sets out to make multiple right off the bat, rather than wait a ton of time, then be told "heh, btw, you could've sped this up a lot more, lol"). Even with like 5 labs, takes forever. New players don't have that much attention span, and won't have the "we need to go bigger" urge that experienced players might. (They'd think 5 labs is a lot/too many)
- Ability to cancel handcrafting not explained
- Big jump in complexity to go from produce X items to produce X items per min, no explanation as to how one might go about that. I again had to suspend my new player roleplay in order to make a full proper factory right out the gate, a new player would be overwhelmed
- Issue of "running out of plates, but can't make plates because I need to make mining/smelting/inserter stuff, but can't make those because I'm out of plates" will confuse new players.
- Too much of a race against the clock, if you don't set up auto production of bullets in time, biters start overwhelming your turrets, *very bad* for new player experience. I know what I'm doing and yet I struggled with this.
- Too many constant problems. Refueling, dealing with turrets, trying to meet the X items per second goal, etc, too much. That leads to overwhelmed new players that will eventually say "nah, this game's too complicated/hard" and refund, after the 13th biter manages to get past their turret that's run out of ammo and destroys part of their factory, meanwhile the game's not satisfied with your production of bullets/min, and that random furnace over there has run out of fuel again, and... I'm not even new and I'm getting annoyed. You might say "oh, but you're supposed to automate X", but remember, new players aren't gonna know what the hell's going on. They aren't going to put 2 and 2 together that they need to run coal over to their furnace, and speaking of that, the tutorial encourages bad habits because it doesn't provide access to things that you'd normally have, like splitters and underground belts, this kinda forces you to make spaghetti weaving belts through stuff.
- Space constraints. Too many cliffs that block stuff, and no underground belts to make routing easier.
Overall assessment: You tried to make the campaign less "handholdy"...you overshot it. By a lot. Need to be a little bit more guiding, otherwise people will get confused or frustrated, which isn't something you want. This version feels intended for existing players, more like a campaign/story mode than a tutorial, which is fine in itself, but there needs to be an effective tutorial, that is quick, easy, and doesn't overwhelm the player with too much too fast. The 0.16 tutorial hit much closer to that mark than this one, which again feels more like a challenge campaign for existing players, but also seeks to annoy them by denying access to things you'd have in freeplay like electric inserters and splitters right on start. I actually didn't finish it because I got too annoyed with it. Imagine a new player.
Not a big fan. I know it's probably a WIP, but as it is now, as a tutorial, the 0.16 version was better. Sorry guys. :(
Load the player into a world, drop some lore message saying "I've crashed, the escape pod saved my life", then have compilatron climb out of the wreckage, introduce itself, and then explain that you've crashed on a planet called Nauvis, yada yada, basically give the player context to the world around them, explain that the natives are hostile, etc.
Point out pieces of the ship lying around that give plates and stuff when mined, have them mine them to teach them how to mine stuff up.
Have the player open their inventory, and introduce it with popups, explaining the crafting side, as well as the HUD of the player, like their equip slots, quickbar, and whatnot. Have them craft a pistol and some bullets from some plates they scrapped from pieces of the ship laying around. Then, have them fight a biter that runs up from off screen. Explain that they can hold space to shoot, and that shooting uses bullets from their inventory/equip area.
After the fight, explain that more biters are coming, and that the player won't be able to hand craft enough bullets fast enough. Enable the recipe for an assembling machine, and give them the raw resources to craft it. Show how intermediates are crafted when you hand craft a fancier recipe.
Have them put the assembling machine down, and open the interface. Explain it, have them choose the bullet magazine recipe. Explain that the machine takes plates, and turns them into bullets when set to this recipe. Place a chest that generates infinite plates next to the assembling machine they placed, then enable the recipe for an inserter, giving them the resources to craft it. Explain what inserters do and how they work, and have them place it between the chest and bullet assembler.
Show the inserter working, taking plates from the chest and putting them into the assembling machine. Then, place a chest to accept the bullets on the other side, and have them craft another inserter and place it to take bullets out. Explain that you can rotate buildings so the inserter points the right way. Show the little factory we have so far working, taking the plates, making them into bullets, and taking the bullets out.
Then, remove the bullet accepting chest, and replace it with a transport belt. Explain transport belts, and give them a few. Have them place a line of belts, and show the produced bullets moving along the belt. Explain/show that items stop when reaching the end of a belt. (Something I've seen new players get worried about)
Then, have them craft and place another inserter at the end of the belt, and place a chest for the bullets to go into, to illustrate that inserters can pull from belts too.
Etcetera, basically go on explaining the basics of how the baseline machines interact with each other. This bit of hand holding is necessary, so players understand the very basics. No problem solving yet. End the first level of the campaign.
Second level, load into a world with a patch of ore. Explain that the world is filled with surface ores, and that you can collect them by holding right click. Have them collect a few, then have compilatron exclaim "This is taking too long! How about a faster, automated way?". Have them craft a burner mining drill with resources you give them, and have them place it on the ore. Give them a bit of coal, and show them that you can fuel the drill with coal. Place a belt for the mined ore to go onto, and show that drills can output onto belts. Have them extend the belt out in a line, to a furnace that compilatron places. "This is a furnace", says compilatron, "You could smelt that ore into plates you can use to craft if you run a belt from your drill to this furnace!"
Give them a few belts, and let them place the belts leading to the furnace, reminding them that they can rotate belts to flow the right way. Place an inserter between the belt and furnace, and show how inserters can take from belts to place stuff into furnaces.
Of course, the furnace will be unfueled, so now's a good time to explain the "no fuel" warning symbol. Have compilatron put some coal into the furnace, and show it smelting.
Etcetera, I could go on, but I think you get the jist. Handhold a lot at first, explaining the very basics of the game in a reasonable order, and don't require any problem solving until all the basics of the game have been explained, so you don't scare players away. Once the basics are explained, you can lighten up on the hand holding, but make sure the player can return to being handheld if they ask. (You should be able to prompt compilatron to do it partway or give you a hint).
That's my opinion of it. Personally, I prefer handholding tutorials, because if I'm actually bothering to play the tutorial of a game, it's because it's too complicated to figure out. A tutorial itself shouldn't require figuring out, it should only teach. Thanks for reading this novel.
- Having to refuel every random inserter and furnace while trying to do an objective is distracting, will slow or confuse new players. Furnaces and miners are fine, but player should be given electric inserters instead. I do notice that you can research them, but no prompt is made to research them. New players aren't going to reopen the research screen to check if they could research something else. Hell, I didn't, until I encountered the frustration with burner inserters. New players are going to thing that burner inserters is all there is.
- Copper ore is not explained, should be pointed out on map and explained that it works the same as iron
- Tech screen is completely unexplained, doesn't explain that game is paused while viewing
- Red assembly machine for sci packs isn't highlighted, players might get confused as to how they're supposed to get packs
- No indicator for research stopping due to out-of-packs
- Concept that burner inserters have implicit fuel when placed isn't explained, new players might place one then forget to fuel it
- No indicator pointing to compilatron's location, could be lost if the player doesn't know to zoom out
- More hints button should clarify on existing objectives, not just list previous tips (have other button for that)
- While funny, nothing stopping player from running into worms and dying
- Escape pod blackbox not highlighted on tech screen, could be missed
- If player happens to click on electric network screen, isn't explained. Either disable or tie it in to the tutorial as soon as it's possible to view
- Objectives are shown unintuitively, players look at top item first and go to do it, only to find that they can't and have to do a subtask first. Show tasks in order top to bottom, like a list of steps.
- "Collect some equipment" doesn't clarify that the factory should be mined up
- Rebuilding factory part doesn't explain that you need to throw everything back down to make packs and circuits and the like
- Concept that assembly machines only make up to a certain amount before needing emptying isn't explained
- Concept that more labs = more speed isn't explained, gonna bore people to death, especially during the "rebuild" and "military" stages
- Needs a "give me more help" button, to have compilatron help you. Too much waiting for prompts.
- Quick bar isn't explained when it pops up
- Ability to cancel handcrafting not explained
- Big jump in complexity to go from produce X items to produce X items per min, no explanation as to how one might go about that. I again had to suspend my new player roleplay in order to make a full proper factory right out the gate, a new player would be overwhelmed
- Issue of "running out of plates, but can't make plates because I need to make mining/smelting/inserter stuff, but can't make those because I'm out of plates" will confuse new players.
- Too much of a race against the clock, if you don't set up auto production of bullets in time, biters start overwhelming your turrets, *very bad* for new player experience. I know what I'm doing and yet I struggled with this.
- Too many constant problems. Refueling, dealing with turrets, trying to meet the X items per second goal, etc, too much. That leads to overwhelmed new players that will eventually say "nah, this game's too complicated/hard" and refund, after the 13th biter manages to get past their turret that's run out of ammo and destroys part of their factory, meanwhile the game's not satisfied with your production of bullets/min, and that random furnace over there has run out of fuel again, and... I'm not even new and I'm getting annoyed. You might say "oh, but you're supposed to automate X", but remember, new players aren't gonna know what the hell's going on. They aren't going to put 2 and 2 together that they need to run coal over to their furnace, and speaking of that, the tutorial encourages bad habits because it doesn't provide access to things that you'd normally have, like splitters and underground belts, this kinda forces you to make spaghetti weaving belts through stuff.
- Space constraints. Too many cliffs that block stuff, and no underground belts to make routing easier.
Overall assessment: You tried to make the campaign less "handholdy"...you overshot it. By a lot. Need to be a little bit more guiding, otherwise people will get confused or frustrated, which isn't something you want. This version feels intended for existing players, more like a campaign/story mode than a tutorial, which is fine in itself, but there needs to be an effective tutorial, that is quick, easy, and doesn't overwhelm the player with too much too fast. The 0.16 tutorial hit much closer to that mark than this one, which again feels more like a challenge campaign for existing players, but also seeks to annoy them by denying access to things you'd have in freeplay like electric inserters and splitters right on start. I actually didn't finish it because I got too annoyed with it. Imagine a new player.
Not a big fan. I know it's probably a WIP, but as it is now, as a tutorial, the 0.16 version was better. Sorry guys. :(
What I'd do instead:
If your goal is to provide a fun tutorial that doesn't hold your hand as much as the 0.16 one did, you're on the right path, but you do need to full-hand-hold for part of it.Load the player into a world, drop some lore message saying "I've crashed, the escape pod saved my life", then have compilatron climb out of the wreckage, introduce itself, and then explain that you've crashed on a planet called Nauvis, yada yada, basically give the player context to the world around them, explain that the natives are hostile, etc.
Point out pieces of the ship lying around that give plates and stuff when mined, have them mine them to teach them how to mine stuff up.
Have the player open their inventory, and introduce it with popups, explaining the crafting side, as well as the HUD of the player, like their equip slots, quickbar, and whatnot. Have them craft a pistol and some bullets from some plates they scrapped from pieces of the ship laying around. Then, have them fight a biter that runs up from off screen. Explain that they can hold space to shoot, and that shooting uses bullets from their inventory/equip area.
After the fight, explain that more biters are coming, and that the player won't be able to hand craft enough bullets fast enough. Enable the recipe for an assembling machine, and give them the raw resources to craft it. Show how intermediates are crafted when you hand craft a fancier recipe.
Have them put the assembling machine down, and open the interface. Explain it, have them choose the bullet magazine recipe. Explain that the machine takes plates, and turns them into bullets when set to this recipe. Place a chest that generates infinite plates next to the assembling machine they placed, then enable the recipe for an inserter, giving them the resources to craft it. Explain what inserters do and how they work, and have them place it between the chest and bullet assembler.
Show the inserter working, taking plates from the chest and putting them into the assembling machine. Then, place a chest to accept the bullets on the other side, and have them craft another inserter and place it to take bullets out. Explain that you can rotate buildings so the inserter points the right way. Show the little factory we have so far working, taking the plates, making them into bullets, and taking the bullets out.
Then, remove the bullet accepting chest, and replace it with a transport belt. Explain transport belts, and give them a few. Have them place a line of belts, and show the produced bullets moving along the belt. Explain/show that items stop when reaching the end of a belt. (Something I've seen new players get worried about)
Then, have them craft and place another inserter at the end of the belt, and place a chest for the bullets to go into, to illustrate that inserters can pull from belts too.
Etcetera, basically go on explaining the basics of how the baseline machines interact with each other. This bit of hand holding is necessary, so players understand the very basics. No problem solving yet. End the first level of the campaign.
Second level, load into a world with a patch of ore. Explain that the world is filled with surface ores, and that you can collect them by holding right click. Have them collect a few, then have compilatron exclaim "This is taking too long! How about a faster, automated way?". Have them craft a burner mining drill with resources you give them, and have them place it on the ore. Give them a bit of coal, and show them that you can fuel the drill with coal. Place a belt for the mined ore to go onto, and show that drills can output onto belts. Have them extend the belt out in a line, to a furnace that compilatron places. "This is a furnace", says compilatron, "You could smelt that ore into plates you can use to craft if you run a belt from your drill to this furnace!"
Give them a few belts, and let them place the belts leading to the furnace, reminding them that they can rotate belts to flow the right way. Place an inserter between the belt and furnace, and show how inserters can take from belts to place stuff into furnaces.
Of course, the furnace will be unfueled, so now's a good time to explain the "no fuel" warning symbol. Have compilatron put some coal into the furnace, and show it smelting.
Etcetera, I could go on, but I think you get the jist. Handhold a lot at first, explaining the very basics of the game in a reasonable order, and don't require any problem solving until all the basics of the game have been explained, so you don't scare players away. Once the basics are explained, you can lighten up on the hand holding, but make sure the player can return to being handheld if they ask. (You should be able to prompt compilatron to do it partway or give you a hint).
That's my opinion of it. Personally, I prefer handholding tutorials, because if I'm actually bothering to play the tutorial of a game, it's because it's too complicated to figure out. A tutorial itself shouldn't require figuring out, it should only teach. Thanks for reading this novel.