Collection of tech tree gotchas

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Blokus
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Collection of tech tree gotchas

Post by Blokus »

This thread is a place to collect situations in PyMods, where one can unlock recipe X in tech A, but must unlock tech B, where tech B is not a prerequisite of tech A, in order to actually use recipe X. The most common problem is when recipe X uses an ingredient whose first recipe is unlocked in tech B, or that the structure in which you run recipe X requires an ingredient whose first recipe is unlocked in tech B. The less common problem is when you can use recipe X unlocked in tech A, but the output is useless until tech B. The latter case is not necessarily a problem at all; it depends on how exactly item X enters into things further down the tree (for example if the item is useless at the moment you get it but techs B,C,... all make it useful and none of them is "first".)

You can optionally propose a fix for your examples.

With enough of these in hand, I'll be starting to propose changes to the prerequisite structure on Github.

I'd prefer that this focus on full Py, but if you have examples that you didn't observe in full Py, mention that in your comment.

To get us started:
  • Dhilmos are unlocked at chem sci, but the dhilmo pool requires biopolymer, which needs prod sci to make. It seems like this could just be moved to prod sci altogether.
  • The Vrauk codex could just be moved to Vrauks 1 instead of being in Xenobiology. I don't see why you would make one before you've unlocked Vrauks 1.
  • The fastwood forestry is unlocked in Botany 1, but requires engines, and Engine is not a prerequisite.
  • Quite a few things use lamps, but can be unlocked without unlocking Optics. The example I encountered in this run was the Secondary Crusher. (This one is quite minor, as Optics is super cheap, and the number of places you'd need to set an Optics prereq would be kinda insane.)
  • Assembler 2s need much more advanced materials like stainless steel that aren't available when you unlock them.
Last edited by Blokus on Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:12 am, edited 2 times in total.

Sarperen
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Re: Collection of tech tree gotchas

Post by Sarperen »

With pyAL, the automated recipe for circuit 1 is unlocked at the start, but you are not able to make the urea for it.

Xynariz
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Re: Collection of tech tree gotchas

Post by Xynariz »

Using full PY's (including AL):
Lignin to Aromatics is unlocked at Biotechnology - Stage 2, but Lignin production is unlocked at Microbiology - Stage 2. Neither tech is a prerequisite of the other, so it's possible to get either the recipe without the ability to produce the item (doesn't really make sense), or the item without the ability to produce the recipe (this one does make sense).

Possible fix seems to be to move both recipes to the same technology - not sure which is more thematically appropriate.

zizzleswomp
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Re: Collection of tech tree gotchas

Post by zizzleswomp »

I would like to voice my support for a bit of streamlining on the flow of technology and recipes like this. While some of the charm of the full PySuite is planning out prereqs, it can be confusing/frustrating to unlock a recipe and still have to research dozens of other techs just to use it.

Some early-game notes I've made:

Coal Processing 1 tech unlocks Plastic Bar recipe (from syngas + aromatics). This recipe is made in a Biofactory, but that is not unlocked until Biotechnology - Stage 1.

Also, you cannot make a Biofactory until you have nexelit plate. You do start the game with the recipe to smelt nexelit plate from raw nexelit, but you have no way to get raw nexelit until you research Nexelit processing - Stage 1.

Fast inserters and filter inserters require duralumin to make, but do not have Aluminium processing - Stage 1 as a prereq.

Assembling machine 2 (tech: Automation 2) requires both duralumin and advanced small parts. In this case, I don't think those prereqs should be put on Automation 2 tech. I think instead that the Assembling machine 2 should be unlocked by some later tech, perhaps the same one that unlocks advanced small parts.

Steel furnace (tech: Advanced material processing) requires Stainless Steel. Basically same issue as Assembling machine 2.

Fast (red) transport belts (tech: Logistics 2) require both stainless steel and advanced small parts. Unlocking red belts at this super early stage just seems like a tease.

mrbaggins
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Re: Collection of tech tree gotchas

Post by mrbaggins »

Vrauks are really a prereq for other land animals 1 creatures like Auogs. Need cocoons for retrovirals, for cDNA, for gene lab to get the starter creatures.

ironchefpython
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Re: Collection of tech tree gotchas

Post by ironchefpython »

Nanomaterial Factory MK 02 can be unlocked before unlocking Nanomaterial Factory MK01, because Advanced mining facilities isn't a prerequisite of Mining Machines - Stage 2.

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pyanodon
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Re: Collection of tech tree gotchas

Post by pyanodon »

nice... we are working hard here to finish pyAL, but as soon as we done with that, we shall fix these small bumps here.
pY Coal processing mod
Discord: Pyanodon #5791

brawerr
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Re: Collection of tech tree gotchas

Post by brawerr »

Super steel alloy mix gets unlocked with Iron Processing - Stage 3, but alloy mix 1 requires fuel rod 5, which needs yellowcake, which needs Uranium Processing - Stage 4.
Could maybe move that to Iron 4.

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brevven
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Re: Collection of tech tree gotchas

Post by brevven »

Here's another minor one. Dingrits are technically gated behind Arthurians, as they need Arthurian Eggs for the creature chamber

Lochar
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Re: Collection of tech tree gotchas

Post by Lochar »

Is this where I can complain that mining efficiency is gated behind Advanced Electronics? A two science research behind a four science one.

ImTooTired
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Re: Collection of tech tree gotchas

Post by ImTooTired »

The recipe "Processed Iron Ore" unlocked by "Iron Processing 1" requires any "Jaw Crusher MK *", but the "Jaw Crusher MK 01" is unlocked by the "Crusher" tech, but "Iron Processing 1" does not depend on the "Crusher" technology.

(It does depend on "Mining Machines - Stage 1", I suspect the recipe used one of the machines unlocked by that and was changed, or the jaw crusher was moved without updating the dependencies)

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Re: Collection of tech tree gotchas

Post by ImTooTired »

The recipe "Moss gene sample" enabled by "Biotechnology - Stage 1" requires any "Gene lab Mk ??", which is enabled by "Genetics - Stage 1" which isn't a dependency of "Biotechnology - Stage 1".

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