Finally got the big mines! Ooooh wait...

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shadowpho
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Finally got the big mines! Ooooh wait...

Post by shadowpho »

Yesterday was a frustrating day.

It started off so well. I got circuit2 automated about a month ago, and I was going around optimizing everything. Lead, tin, titanium, zinc, silver, copper. Finally I was in a stable spot. My factory was (mostly) happy. I even had robots now! However, I kept running out of phosphoric rocks. They are used for much ore processing plus circuit2s. However, the small mines only have 40k and I went through 12 of them, which took about 5 train stops that I had to keep moving (and an extra one for drills).

Now it was time to take on next level. I only need control circuits for big phosphate mine and it has A MILLION rocks! I was so happy. I spent a day or two making control circuits station (not too bad) and then went to place the big phosphate mine.

But wait! What's that? MEGA DRILL HEADS? And they require helium (oh boy), Industrial diamonds (OH BOY) AND SUPER-ALLOY (vanadium oxide, gold mining AND everything?)


:'(

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Re: Finally got the big mines! Ooooh wait...

Post by Pridesfall »

Lol. I can feel that pain.

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Re: Finally got the big mines! Ooooh wait...

Post by pyanodon »

Youre welcome :D
pY Coal processing mod
Discord: Pyanodon #5791

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Re: Finally got the big mines! Ooooh wait...

Post by shadowpho »

Heh. I decide to just go straight for next science instead. I ONLY need diamond processing for that.

Diamond mining processing looks straightforward. OK, I build the machine and start organizing them.

Wait, the ONLY way to get diamonds is through.... DIAMOND MINE which requires vanadates..... ahhhhhhh.......


P.S.

Kevlar recipe makes no sense. "Easy" kevlar recipe is CHEAPER then "advanced" kevlar recipe. Are you sure you didn't miss a zero? (50 kevlar vs 5 instead of 5vs5). It would mirror what rubber does (50 rubber instead of 5 rubber once you finish DMS).

As it is you would burn 10x the PPD, and DOUBLE the TPA to save a little bit of nylon. However, TPA requires MORE nichrome then nylon....

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Re: Finally got the big mines! Ooooh wait...

Post by Blokus »

shadowpho wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:51 pm
Heh. I decide to just go straight for next science instead. I ONLY need diamond processing for that.

Diamond mining processing looks straightforward. OK, I build the machine and start organizing them.

Wait, the ONLY way to get diamonds is through.... DIAMOND MINE which requires vanadates..... ahhhhhhh.......


P.S.

Kevlar recipe makes no sense. "Easy" kevlar recipe is CHEAPER then "advanced" kevlar recipe. Are you sure you didn't miss a zero? (50 kevlar vs 5 instead of 5vs5). It would mirror what rubber does (50 rubber instead of 5 rubber once you finish DMS).

As it is you would burn 10x the PPD, and DOUBLE the TPA to save a little bit of nylon. However, TPA requires MORE nichrome then nylon....
Yes, one of the kevlar recipes was borked a while ago, adding a zero that wasn't supposed to be there, and never fixed.

Also, you can make diamonds through particle accelerators. Technically this is easier to do after you unlock Nanotechnology, which is itself a production science tech, but you can do it before that too if you make boron from scratch. Unfortunately, Py removed the option to use efficiency modules in particle accelerators, so they actually do use 100 MW now.

If you don't need continuous throughput of vanadium yet, I'd consider just making a teeny tiny bit out of silver-zinc + either tar or bitumen, just enough to get super steel for random crap like diamond mines. (Bitumen is better if you use oil sand already, but if you don't then the tar recipe isn't that much worse.) The vanadium chain is a true nightmare when you crunch the numbers; it will easily consume an amount of iron ore and tin ore comparable to the entire rest of your base put together if you try to make a yellow belt of vanadium, plus a truly unbelievable amount of tailings dust.

But considering how slow the associated PA recipe is (not even 0.25/s per PA) and how PAs can't be efficiency moduled anymore, you eventually have to face it, or else you're going to spend 5+ GW on just a yellow belt of vanadium. (Trying to make the silver-zinc route work at scale certainly isn't going to work either.)

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Re: Finally got the big mines! Ooooh wait...

Post by otakushowboat »

Blokus wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:27 pm
shadowpho wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:51 pm
Heh. I decide to just go straight for next science instead. I ONLY need diamond processing for that.

Diamond mining processing looks straightforward. OK, I build the machine and start organizing them.

Wait, the ONLY way to get diamonds is through.... DIAMOND MINE which requires vanadates..... ahhhhhhh.......


P.S.

Kevlar recipe makes no sense. "Easy" kevlar recipe is CHEAPER then "advanced" kevlar recipe. Are you sure you didn't miss a zero? (50 kevlar vs 5 instead of 5vs5). It would mirror what rubber does (50 rubber instead of 5 rubber once you finish DMS).

As it is you would burn 10x the PPD, and DOUBLE the TPA to save a little bit of nylon. However, TPA requires MORE nichrome then nylon....
Yes, one of the kevlar recipes was borked a while ago, adding a zero that wasn't supposed to be there, and never fixed.

Also, you can make diamonds through particle accelerators. Technically this is easier to do after you unlock Nanotechnology, which is itself a production science tech, but you can do it before that too if you make boron from scratch. Unfortunately, Py removed the option to use efficiency modules in particle accelerators, so they actually do use 100 MW now.

If you don't need continuous throughput of vanadium yet, I'd consider just making a teeny tiny bit out of silver-zinc + either tar or bitumen, just enough to get super steel for random crap like diamond mines. (Bitumen is better if you use oil sand already, but if you don't then the tar recipe isn't that much worse.) The vanadium chain is a true nightmare when you crunch the numbers; it will easily consume an amount of iron ore and tin ore comparable to the entire rest of your base put together if you try to make a yellow belt of vanadium, plus a truly unbelievable amount of tailings dust.

But considering how slow the associated PA recipe is (not even 0.25/s per PA) and how PAs can't be efficiency moduled anymore, you eventually have to face it, or else you're going to spend 5+ GW on just a yellow belt of vanadium. (Trying to make the silver-zinc route work at scale certainly isn't going to work either.)
You can absolutely use efficiency modules in particle accelerators to get them down to 20MW. Productivity was what was removed a little while ago.

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Re: Finally got the big mines! Ooooh wait...

Post by kingarthur »

otakushowboat wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:23 pm
Blokus wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:27 pm
shadowpho wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:51 pm
Heh. I decide to just go straight for next science instead. I ONLY need diamond processing for that.

Diamond mining processing looks straightforward. OK, I build the machine and start organizing them.

Wait, the ONLY way to get diamonds is through.... DIAMOND MINE which requires vanadates..... ahhhhhhh.......


P.S.

Kevlar recipe makes no sense. "Easy" kevlar recipe is CHEAPER then "advanced" kevlar recipe. Are you sure you didn't miss a zero? (50 kevlar vs 5 instead of 5vs5). It would mirror what rubber does (50 rubber instead of 5 rubber once you finish DMS).

As it is you would burn 10x the PPD, and DOUBLE the TPA to save a little bit of nylon. However, TPA requires MORE nichrome then nylon....
Yes, one of the kevlar recipes was borked a while ago, adding a zero that wasn't supposed to be there, and never fixed.

Also, you can make diamonds through particle accelerators. Technically this is easier to do after you unlock Nanotechnology, which is itself a production science tech, but you can do it before that too if you make boron from scratch. Unfortunately, Py removed the option to use efficiency modules in particle accelerators, so they actually do use 100 MW now.

If you don't need continuous throughput of vanadium yet, I'd consider just making a teeny tiny bit out of silver-zinc + either tar or bitumen, just enough to get super steel for random crap like diamond mines. (Bitumen is better if you use oil sand already, but if you don't then the tar recipe isn't that much worse.) The vanadium chain is a true nightmare when you crunch the numbers; it will easily consume an amount of iron ore and tin ore comparable to the entire rest of your base put together if you try to make a yellow belt of vanadium, plus a truly unbelievable amount of tailings dust.

But considering how slow the associated PA recipe is (not even 0.25/s per PA) and how PAs can't be efficiency moduled anymore, you eventually have to face it, or else you're going to spend 5+ GW on just a yellow belt of vanadium. (Trying to make the silver-zinc route work at scale certainly isn't going to work either.)
You can absolutely use efficiency modules in particle accelerators to get them down to 20MW. Productivity was what was removed a little while ago.
Wrong. Absolutely incorrect that has been changed recently

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Re: Finally got the big mines! Ooooh wait...

Post by otakushowboat »

kingarthur wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:07 am
Wrong. Absolutely incorrect that has been changed recently
I do see that in the commits, yes, the ability to use efficiency modules is supposed to be removed. I'm not getting that behavior on my current saves, though, and reported my own current experience of being able to use them. I am using the most recent releases of the mods and there do not appear to be any others that would add it back in my mod list.

Edit: Even though this change is made in the code, it has not been pushed live in a release yet. The power usage is also going up to 120MW on top of removing efficiency modules from the building.

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Re: Finally got the big mines! Ooooh wait...

Post by shadowpho »

>Yes, one of the kevlar recipes was borked a while ago, adding a zero that wasn't supposed to be there, and never fixed.

Is there a place to report the kevlar bug?

Also, while you guys were arguing I managed to get vanadium oxide :). I processed all of it from my aluminum tailings i saved up. Got me like 1k super steel. Now I just need to make special small parts....

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Re: Finally got the big mines! Ooooh wait...

Post by kingarthur »

otakushowboat wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:48 am
kingarthur wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:07 am
Wrong. Absolutely incorrect that has been changed recently
I do see that in the commits, yes, the ability to use efficiency modules is supposed to be removed. I'm not getting that behavior on my current saves, though, and reported my own current experience of being able to use them. I am using the most recent releases of the mods and there do not appear to be any others that would add it back in my mod list.

Edit: Even though this change is made in the code, it has not been pushed live in a release yet. The power usage is also going up to 120MW on top of removing efficiency modules from the building.
Huh. My bad I swear that had already been released.

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Re: Finally got the big mines! Ooooh wait...

Post by shadowpho »

so it sounds like power making of helium is out. How do you guys get helium?

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Re: Finally got the big mines! Ooooh wait...

Post by Blokus »

shadowpho wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:07 pm
so it sounds like power making of helium is out. How do you guys get helium?
My impression from the changes that happened a while back and my conversation with immortal_sniper about them, is that the intention is for players to use regolite. It seems like if at any point there is a good alternative, it will get nerfed in time.

That said, the actual decent options that exist now seem to be natural gas (except you pay out the ass for ethylene glycol and colloidal silica), regolite, and maybe liquid petroleum gas. The liquid clean air route is basically gone at this point.

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Re: Finally got the big mines! Ooooh wait...

Post by shadowpho »

Blokus wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:55 pm
shadowpho wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:07 pm
so it sounds like power making of helium is out. How do you guys get helium?
My impression from the changes that happened a while back and my conversation with immortal_sniper about them, is that the intention is for players to use regolite. It seems like if at any point there is a good alternative, it will get nerfed in time.

That said, the actual decent options that exist now seem to be natural gas (except you pay out the ass for ethylene glycol and colloidal silica), regolite, and maybe liquid petroleum gas. The liquid clean air route is basically gone at this point.
Ouch. Regolith is painful just because it gives iron ore and copper ore.

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Re: Finally got the big mines! Ooooh wait...

Post by fractalman »

shadowpho wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:33 pm

Ouch. Regolith is painful just because it gives iron ore and copper ore.
Amusingly, that wouldn't be a problem for me, that would be a nice little bonus!

Honestly, there's a big list of common solid byproducts for which you should probably set up a dedicated facility that sorts and handles all of them at once. If something produces these byproducts as byproducts in small or modest quantities, you send them there to be dealt with one way or another-whether that be to send them back out to the factory (e.g. gravel for rockwool or stone for tar production), processing them down into something else (e.g. tailings dust to iron, copper, and coal dust-NOT chromite sand, you get way more of that from actual sand), or outright voiding them (*especially* coal dust once it starts to pile up)



Dirt (if produced in small quantities), sand (again, if produced in small quantities), tailings dust (even in large quantities as it processes quickly), coarse fraction, ash, gravel, stone, limestone, organic matter, coal dust, copper and iron ore, iron oxide, chromite sand, rich dust...

throw them all at a couple of high-capacity unload stations and let the apparatus sort them out and process them as needed.

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Re: Finally got the big mines! Ooooh wait...

Post by immortal_sniper1 »

fractalman wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:30 am
shadowpho wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:33 pm

Ouch. Regolith is painful just because it gives iron ore and copper ore.
Amusingly, that wouldn't be a problem for me, that would be a nice little bonus!

Honestly, there's a big list of common solid byproducts for which you should probably set up a dedicated facility that sorts and handles all of them at once. If something produces these byproducts as byproducts in small or modest quantities, you send them there to be dealt with one way or another-whether that be to send them back out to the factory (e.g. gravel for rockwool or stone for tar production), processing them down into something else (e.g. tailings dust to iron, copper, and coal dust-NOT chromite sand, you get way more of that from actual sand), or outright voiding them (*especially* coal dust once it starts to pile up)



Dirt (if produced in small quantities), sand (again, if produced in small quantities), tailings dust (even in large quantities as it processes quickly), coarse fraction, ash, gravel, stone, limestone, organic matter, coal dust, copper and iron ore, iron oxide, chromite sand, rich dust...

throw them all at a couple of high-capacity unload stations and let the apparatus sort them out and process them as needed.
i made facilities like that tho i think there are a lot more tailing dust out there
also orvanics>CO2 >vent that is made n the spot
chromite sant as waste where?
coarse >sort to graver sand+oxide on the spot
stone>grave>sand
gravel>sand
then ship them to the sand waste facility
limestine waste where?

BTW in the case of the regolite chain the stone +gravel you get is nice since u can get some extra He from them
and the res are in low amounts so a small burner setup would do the trick

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Re: Finally got the big mines! Ooooh wait...

Post by fractalman »

immortal_sniper1 wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:48 am

i made facilities like that tho i think there are a lot more tailing dust out there
also orvanics>CO2 >vent that is made n the spot
chromite sant as waste where?
coarse >sort to graver sand+oxide on the spot
stone>grave>sand
gravel>sand
then ship them to the sand waste facility
limestine waste where?

BTW in the case of the regolite chain the stone +gravel you get is nice since u can get some extra He from them
and the res are in low amounts so a small burner setup would do the trick
my setup could handle about 2 full red belts of tailings dust without problems.


I *could* sort coarse on the spot where its produced-but then I still need to deal with the gravel, sand, and oxide, one way or another. I found it easier to just send the coarse and tailings from tar to the sorting and processing facility. It's got plenty of capacity for that!



I forget where I was getting limestone waste. I actually wound up just voiding it, as the quantity was too small to be worth worrying about and you can get it directly from soil extractors aynways. .

I get more chromite dust than I can actually use because I went a little overboard setting up chromite sand production (dirt->sand->rich dust), but I don't regret doing this as I get so much useful stuff out of this (especially tailings for oil and nexelit), and I don't have to worry about using chromium in, say, oil processing.

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