Py Beginner advice - map settings / bus

[Trblz]

Hi

after a break from Factorio i want to start again with 0.17 and PyRO, PyCP, PyFE, PyHT, PyIn..
And some QoL modes like FNEI, MaxRate,

Based on some comments RSO is still for better ore spawning. What map settings would you advice?

In more vanilla games, my starter base has about 30 lane bus and i am building on either side of the bus. From what i've read and see on YT, This aproach won't work well with PY due to the sheer volume of products (solid or liquid). What strategy with the bus would you recommend?

[Blokus]

No bus at all, instead either rush cargo bots and manage your primary production area entirely that way, or go for something along the lines of city blocks with items transferred by trains (which is most easily done with LTN).

[reapersms]

Can't really speak to the map settings bit, as I tend to stick to seablock style things.

I've had good results mid-game with a block based LTN network running on trains and spaghetti, with 1-2 trains and lots of multi provider stations. Previous run I used 3x3 chunk blocks with a 1 chunk border between for the rails and stations, going to try a 4x4 one this time around. Most of the stations were set for relatively low thresholds, 500ish for most things, with a lot of them moving 5-8 different items through -- though some of that was dealing with stack inserters being locked behind red circuits until recently.

QoL mod wise, for the ones that actually affect things rather than just things like FNEI, Bottleneck, etc, I go with LongReach, SqueakThrough, QoL research, wide chests, and deadlock's loaders & stacking beltboxes. I had crating around, but never ran into a situation that called for them.

For Py, it's not so much the raw volume of things as much as it is the sheer number of them. The footprint of a factory that could fill a yellow belt with the red circuit equivalent alone would be larger than most rocket launching vanilla bases. Traditional busses don't always work so nicely, as the byproduct and intermediate dependency graph is a bit all over the place.

tl;dr: early game, push for rails by whatever means necessary, expect to rip up and rebuild lots of things. mid game, transition to rail network connecting smaller self contained ceils

[Raphaello]

Good advice above, I would add also getting Mk2 armor for faster running (your base will get huge) and to have 50 construction bots (you'll rebuild a lot).
The console command to add it can be found in Factorio wiki.

[Trblz]

This is good information

Does anyone have a save file i can use to test? Prior to 0.17 my laptop was not running well with Py-mods due to the highres requirements. Now my laptop works fine with a 5k SPM base.

[kingarthur]

This is good information

Does anyone have a save file i can use to test? Prior to 0.17 my laptop was not running well with Py-mods due to the highres requirements. Now my laptop works fine with a 5k SPM base.

what kind of map are you looking for?

theres the pymods community map where we are in the middle off getting circuit 2/ sci 3 going useing the full pymods set. could log on and make a local save of that

[Raphaello]

theres the pymods community map where we are in the middle off getting circuit 2/ sci 3 going useing the full pymods set. could log on and make a local save of that

is it a private server? I was not able to find it in the public servers.

[kingarthur]

theres the pymods community map where we are in the middle off getting circuit 2/ sci 3 going useing the full pymods set. could log on and make a local save of that

is it a private server? I was not able to find it in the public servers.

Should be pymods community server

[TwentyEighty]

It's there. 0.17.36 right now search for py And join discord server https://discord.gg/44Gb5Dv

[Raphaello]

Thanks!
I didn't find it earlier as I did not realize it is password protected. Getting in there now

[YunoAloe]

I get a feeling that by default, rare earth, kimberlite and molybdenum are too rare. Could be just my map though. More likely is that they're pushed by Angel/Bob stuff taking their share since I'm playing ABPy+.

Also crating is nice, makes 1 bot carry a vanilla-sized wagon late-game.

Bus for items doesn't work, not only because of complexity but also because of UPS; but I have a bus for fluids with titanium underground pipes which works pretty wonderful, and fluid manager was made multithreaded just recently too (I didn't notice any changes in debug stats though..?). All places that make some fluid as a byproduct, fully flush it into the common pipe which is connected to sinkholes using 80% overflow valve. All places that make same stuff as a main product, are connected to the same pipe with a circuit over a pump that doesn't pump if main pipe if filled by over 70%.

[Riktol]

Not sure if this is the right place for this, I couldn't see a general help thread so this is a bit highjacky.
Robots/roboports, can be built really early (red science, once you get rubber and stuff sorted).
I built a few and deconstructed my old iron mine but then then they just sat there because they didn't have anywhere to offload.
Am I missing something or do you need to research loads of green science to get the boxes for them to unload into?
Also the robots are construct/desconstruct only, so passive providers and requesters are no use until you get real logistics bots which need circuit board 2?

Should I use logisics robots to make a mall (because a conventional one seems impossible)?

(edit) One other thing, what are tar extractors supposed to be placed on top of? I haven't seen any tar deposits but none of the likely alternatives I've tried will let me place it?.(/edit)

[Blokus]

Not sure if this is the right place for this, I couldn't see a general help thread so this is a bit highjacky.
Robots/roboports, can be built really early (red science, once you get rubber and stuff sorted).
I built a few and deconstructed my old iron mine but then then they just sat there because they didn't have anywhere to offload.
Am I missing something or do you need to research loads of green science to get the boxes for them to unload into?
Also the robots are construct/desconstruct only, so passive providers and requesters are no use until you get real logistics bots which need circuit board 2?

Should I use logisics robots to make a mall (because a conventional one seems impossible)?

(edit) One other thing, what are tar extractors supposed to be placed on top of? I haven't seen any tar deposits but none of the likely alternatives I've tried will let me place it?.(/edit)

The fact that bots and ports unlock at red science indeed doesn't actually let you use them; for construction jobs, they have nowhere to pick items up, and for deconstruction jobs, they have nowhere to drop stuff off. You have to research logistic system to really take advantage of them. At most the fact that they unlock earlier is useful so you can start crafting them in advance to ease the transition, though I find this is a bit of a stretch.

There are cargo pynobots which do not need circuit board 2 to make, which you can use to make a mall. A conventional belt mall (possibly using warehouses to pass items back and forth between various machines) is technically possible but it would have to be huge. A crafting combinator-based belt mall can be made smaller, but still, bot mall is just for the best.

I also haven't seen tar patches, but I added Py PH in the middle of my game and am not using RSO, so I wouldn't be surprised if one or both of those was causing the problem.

[Riktol]

Not sure if this is the right place for this, I couldn't see a general help thread so this is a bit highjacky.
Robots/roboports, can be built really early (red science, once you get rubber and stuff sorted).
I built a few and deconstructed my old iron mine but then then they just sat there because they didn't have anywhere to offload.
Am I missing something or do you need to research loads of green science to get the boxes for them to unload into?
Also the robots are construct/desconstruct only, so passive providers and requesters are no use until you get real logistics bots which need circuit board 2?

Should I use logisics robots to make a mall (because a conventional one seems impossible)?

(edit) One other thing, what are tar extractors supposed to be placed on top of? I haven't seen any tar deposits but none of the likely alternatives I've tried will let me place it?.(/edit)

The fact that bots and ports unlock at red science indeed doesn't actually let you use them; for construction jobs, they have nowhere to pick items up, and for deconstruction jobs, they have nowhere to drop stuff off. You have to research logistic system to really take advantage of them. At most the fact that they unlock earlier is useful so you can start crafting them in advance to ease the transition, though I find this is a bit of a stretch.

There are cargo pynobots which do not need circuit board 2 to make, which you can use to make a mall. A conventional belt mall (possibly using warehouses to pass items back and forth between various machines) is technically possible but it would have to be huge. A crafting combinator-based belt mall can be made smaller, but still, bot mall is just for the best.

I also haven't seen tar patches, but I added Py PH in the middle of my game and am not using RSO, so I wouldn't be surprised if one or both of those was causing the problem.

I missed something important, the Cargo Pynobot Mk1 unlocked by Basic Electronics (green science!).

I think if I get these then I can run a logistics network without needing blue science or circuit board 2, both of which look very scary.

Pyanodon, would you consider moving the Cargobot into the same technology as the Construction bot?

[Blokus]

Not sure if this is the right place for this, I couldn't see a general help thread so this is a bit highjacky.
Robots/roboports, can be built really early (red science, once you get rubber and stuff sorted).
I built a few and deconstructed my old iron mine but then then they just sat there because they didn't have anywhere to offload.
Am I missing something or do you need to research loads of green science to get the boxes for them to unload into?
Also the robots are construct/desconstruct only, so passive providers and requesters are no use until you get real logistics bots which need circuit board 2?

Should I use logisics robots to make a mall (because a conventional one seems impossible)?

(edit) One other thing, what are tar extractors supposed to be placed on top of? I haven't seen any tar deposits but none of the likely alternatives I've tried will let me place it?.(/edit)

The fact that bots and ports unlock at red science indeed doesn't actually let you use them; for construction jobs, they have nowhere to pick items up, and for deconstruction jobs, they have nowhere to drop stuff off. You have to research logistic system to really take advantage of them. At most the fact that they unlock earlier is useful so you can start crafting them in advance to ease the transition, though I find this is a bit of a stretch.

There are cargo pynobots which do not need circuit board 2 to make, which you can use to make a mall. A conventional belt mall (possibly using warehouses to pass items back and forth between various machines) is technically possible but it would have to be huge. A crafting combinator-based belt mall can be made smaller, but still, bot mall is just for the best.

I also haven't seen tar patches, but I added Py PH in the middle of my game and am not using RSO, so I wouldn't be surprised if one or both of those was causing the problem.

I missed something important, the Cargo Pynobot Mk1 unlocked by Basic Electronics (green science!).

I think if I get these then I can run a logistics network without needing blue science or circuit board 2, both of which look very scary.

Pyanodon, would you consider moving the Cargobot into the same technology as the Construction bot?

Just like the construction bot, there isn't any use for it without unlocking logistic system, which is also sp2.

[pyanodon]

SP2 ftw!

[Riktol]

I have green science, moving the bot would help make it a bit clearer that it exists, it looks like it got lost among the recipes at the moment.

[Bishop89]

Robots/roboports, can be built really early (red science, once you get rubber and stuff sorted).
I built a few and deconstructed my old iron mine but then they just sat there because they didn't have anywhere to offload.
Am I missing something or do you need to research loads of green science to get the boxes for them to unload into?

Hello, I made a small mod to unlock red/yellow chests as early as your research engine https://mods.factorio.com/mod/pYearlybotfix .

As for the topic of this post - plenty of people suggests doing train-based bases, and I agree with this but since this is my first play with pY mods I'm not quite sure how to do it well enough. I in vanilla I usually build specific input/output of 2-3 materials and that was doing the job most of the time. Do you guys do everything on the spot - deliver only raw resources? or actually, there is some of them (glass? coke? coal gas? circuits?) that you would suggest building a block just to make that resource? Also what with the fluids?

[Blokus]

Robots/roboports, can be built really early (red science, once you get rubber and stuff sorted).
I built a few and deconstructed my old iron mine but then they just sat there because they didn't have anywhere to offload.
Am I missing something or do you need to research loads of green science to get the boxes for them to unload into?

Hello, I made a small mod to unlock red/yellow chests as early as your research engine https://mods.factorio.com/mod/pYearlybotfix .

As for the topic of this post - plenty of people suggests doing train-based bases, and I agree with this but since this is my first play with pY mods I'm not quite sure how to do it well enough. I in vanilla I usually build specific input/output of 2-3 materials and that was doing the job most of the time. Do you guys do everything on the spot - deliver only raw resources? or actually, there is some of them (glass? coke? coal gas? circuits?) that you would suggest building a block just to make that resource? Also what with the fluids?

I do city blocks with LTN. The city blocks are pretty big (200x200 interior space). They typically take in quite a few things and export quite a few things...I pretty much shove stuff in until I either feel like the block is getting cramped or I have a plan for the space I'm not using yet. Basically if I could plausibly use an item somewhere else, I dump it onto the network. So for example, when I made fiberboard, that was the first place that I was making sodium hydroxide and sodium sulfate, so I threw those out onto the network for use elsewhere.

I handle fluids with barrels, which is pretty easy with LTN once you know how network IDs work (so that you can have a central provider and central requester that won't loop back and forth between one another). You can use fluid wagons, but then your fluid stations have a tendency to become very numerous, and there's more risk of trains returning to the depot non-empty (or idling at requesters unable to be emptied due to contamination).

[Bishop89]

I do city blocks with LTN. The city blocks are pretty big (200x200 interior space). They typically take in quite a few things and export quite a few things...I pretty much shove stuff in until I either feel like the block is getting cramped or I have a plan for the space I'm not using yet. Basically if I could plausibly use an item somewhere else, I dump it onto the network. So for example, when I made fiberboard, that was the first place that I was making sodium hydroxide and sodium sulfate, so I threw those out onto the network for use elsewhere.

I handle fluids with barrels, which is pretty easy with LTN once you know how network IDs work (so that you can have a central provider and central requester that won't loop back and forth between one another). You can use fluid wagons, but then your fluid stations have a tendency to become very numerous, and there's more risk of trains returning to the depot non-empty (or idling at requesters unable to be emptied due to contamination).

any tips for pre-LTN base? I'm literally at edge of red/green and about to do some major expansion, just considering exactly how to do it, because I love big trains - 3 loco + 10 cargo is my favorite, and I use them plenty of times since beginning in vanilla with singular resource, but here I cannot justify it over more shorter ones, because of sheer amount of items produced.

(or idling at requesters unable to be emptied due to contamination).

is this still a thing in 0.17 fluid changes? it prevents me even from mixing fluids while trying to properly rotate a building.