pY Petroleum Handling

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Re: pY Petroleum Handling

Post by Anon2k » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:40 am

Alright, I'm a bad troll. However, I will explain my position.
ImageImage

Here I make ralesia. As a result, I will have an outpost, which on the one hand gives Ralesia, and on the other sulfur. And nothing is needed. Do you understand how strange this looks?

I think that a possible solution would be to add a system of catalysts (as for example in an angel, in his petrochemicals).

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Re: pY Petroleum Handling

Post by immortal_sniper1 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:10 pm

Anon2k wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:40 am
Alright, I'm a bad troll. However, I will explain my position.
ImageImage

Here I make ralesia. As a result, I will have an outpost, which on the one hand gives Ralesia, and on the other sulfur. And nothing is needed. Do you understand how strange this looks?

I think that a possible solution would be to add a system of catalysts (as for example in an angel, in his petrochemicals).
  • ralesia is a plant so besides water input ( H2 and soil here ) there is no input just like IRL , except power
  • regarding S that is the input for the coal bead chain , you can say you get it as a bonus instead of venting O2
  • why build so many rallesi usualy a small mid sized array is enough for mod=st local needs , maybe except lard and bone mead

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Re: pY Petroleum Handling

Post by Marasambala » Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:01 pm

I've just downloaded the pySuite for the first time and I'm loving it. I just installed the mods on a fresh installation of Factorio on Tuesday this week. However, when I try to install Petrolium Handling from the ingame mod installer, it says "selected mod has no release version." I'd appreciate any insight into my issue.

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Re: pY Petroleum Handling

Post by kingarthur » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:08 pm

Marasambala wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:01 pm
I've just downloaded the pySuite for the first time and I'm loving it. I just installed the mods on a fresh installation of Factorio on Tuesday this week. However, when I try to install Petrolium Handling from the ingame mod installer, it says "selected mod has no release version." I'd appreciate any insight into my issue.
Try downloading it manually from the mod portal website

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Re: pY Petroleum Handling

Post by Marasambala » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:34 pm

kingarthur wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:08 pm
Marasambala wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:01 pm
I've just downloaded the pySuite for the first time and I'm loving it. I just installed the mods on a fresh installation of Factorio on Tuesday this week. However, when I try to install Petrolium Handling from the ingame mod installer, it says "selected mod has no release version." I'd appreciate any insight into my issue.
Try downloading it manually from the mod portal website
I manually downloaded and dropped the zip file into the mod folder, now I get the following error when loading the game:

'Failed to load mod "pypetroleumhandling": Mod pypetroleumhandling dependencey (?) pyrawores >= 1.2.6 not matching pattern "[?!] ModName [ModVersion specifier]".'

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Re: pY Petroleum Handling

Post by kingarthur » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:55 pm

Marasambala wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:34 pm
kingarthur wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:08 pm
Marasambala wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:01 pm
I've just downloaded the pySuite for the first time and I'm loving it. I just installed the mods on a fresh installation of Factorio on Tuesday this week. However, when I try to install Petrolium Handling from the ingame mod installer, it says "selected mod has no release version." I'd appreciate any insight into my issue.
Try downloading it manually from the mod portal website
I manually downloaded and dropped the zip file into the mod folder, now I get the following error when loading the game:

'Failed to load mod "pypetroleumhandling": Mod pypetroleumhandling dependencey (?) pyrawores >= 1.2.6 not matching pattern "[?!] ModName [ModVersion specifier]".'
what version of factorio are you running? ive only seen that error with .16.xx

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Re: pY Petroleum Handling

Post by Marasambala » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:26 pm

kingarthur wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:55 pm
Marasambala wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:34 pm
kingarthur wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:08 pm
Marasambala wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:01 pm
I've just downloaded the pySuite for the first time and I'm loving it. I just installed the mods on a fresh installation of Factorio on Tuesday this week. However, when I try to install Petrolium Handling from the ingame mod installer, it says "selected mod has no release version." I'd appreciate any insight into my issue.
Try downloading it manually from the mod portal website
I manually downloaded and dropped the zip file into the mod folder, now I get the following error when loading the game:

'Failed to load mod "pypetroleumhandling": Mod pypetroleumhandling dependencey (?) pyrawores >= 1.2.6 not matching pattern "[?!] ModName [ModVersion specifier]".'
what version of factorio are you running? ive only seen that error with .16.xx
There you have it. I thought I had just reinstalled factorio, but i somehow it's still hanging on to .16.x version. Thanks.

edit: I see steam hasn't migrated to .17, yet since its still 'experimental'

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Re: pY Petroleum Handling

Post by otakushowboat » Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:08 pm

With today's update in PyPH for ground borers, there may have been a slight oversight if also using PyHT due to the new drilling fluid requirements.

If also using PyHT, drilling fluid 2 and 3 require Ethylene Glycol, which requires Colloidal Silica. Colloidal Silica is locked behind the Nanotechnology tech at Production Science. This means that all available ground boring recipes that now need drilling fluid 2 and 3 cannot actually be crafted until researching Nanotechnology.

In practical terms, this means that Nexelit ore can now only be obtained via tailings until after researching Nanotechnology at production science.

While I agree with the other change of requiring the fluid type used to mine each appropriate ore, with the full pY suite installed, switching over to using drilling fluid makes the ground boring recipes prohibitively expensive, especially for fluid 2 and 3, but also for fluid 1 which takes titanium ore (and therefore expensive Acetylene).

For the sake of my own entertainment, I will be modding back in lubricant instead of the drilling fluids.

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Re: pY Petroleum Handling

Post by pyanodon » Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:13 pm

Thanks for the heads up about the tech lock. I shall fix that.
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Re: pY Petroleum Handling

Post by otakushowboat » Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:53 pm

pyanodon wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:13 pm
Thanks for the heads up about the tech lock. I shall fix that.
Excellent. Thanks for changing fluid 1 to copper. However, copper is copper-ore, not ore-copper, so now fluid 1 has no ore requirement :D

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Re: pY Petroleum Handling

Post by pyanodon » Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:00 am

otakushowboat wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:53 pm

Excellent. Thanks for changing fluid 1 to copper. However, copper is copper-ore, not ore-copper, so now fluid 1 has no ore requirement :D

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Re: pY Petroleum Handling

Post by otakushowboat » Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:54 am

For anyone interested in NOT having drilling fluid required for ground boring recipes and would rather stick with lubricant:

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/pyborerrevert

PS: This is the first mod I've done for Factorio, so there are probably better ways of implementing what this mod does, but it should at least work.

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Re: pY Petroleum Handling

Post by Blokus » Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:24 am

otakushowboat wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:08 pm
With today's update in PyPH for ground borers, there may have been a slight oversight if also using PyHT due to the new drilling fluid requirements.

If also using PyHT, drilling fluid 2 and 3 require Ethylene Glycol, which requires Colloidal Silica. Colloidal Silica is locked behind the Nanotechnology tech at Production Science. This means that all available ground boring recipes that now need drilling fluid 2 and 3 cannot actually be crafted until researching Nanotechnology.

In practical terms, this means that Nexelit ore can now only be obtained via tailings until after researching Nanotechnology at production science.

While I agree with the other change of requiring the fluid type used to mine each appropriate ore, with the full pY suite installed, switching over to using drilling fluid makes the ground boring recipes prohibitively expensive, especially for fluid 2 and 3, but also for fluid 1 which takes titanium ore (and therefore expensive Acetylene).

For the sake of my own entertainment, I will be modding back in lubricant instead of the drilling fluids.
I agree that the change to using the corresponding ore's fluid (e.g. syngas for chromium) rather than coal gas makes perfect sense. I also agree that the ground borer recipes, at least for fluid 2/3, are now pretty prohibitive to use. But then, ethylene glycol and the drilling fluids have gotten cheaper, so I'll have to tinker with it. I still am likely to install your revert mod in the end.

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Re: pY Petroleum Handling

Post by immortal_sniper1 » Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:40 am

like someone already said ground borers are atm so expensive it is not worth using them
even before getting ores with them was pretty expensive , except borax nexelite and niobium,
i personally used them for lead since i ford acetylene so expensive , and also titanium
also drill fluid 2 3 need zipir and again that resource it is a pain to manage
also atm i am considering making a tailings generating build in order to get nexelite ore

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Re: pY Petroleum Handling

Post by immortal_sniper1 » Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:44 am

otakushowboat wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:54 am
For anyone interested in NOT having drilling fluid required for ground boring recipes and would rather stick with lubricant:

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/pyborerrevert

PS: This is the first mod I've done for Factorio, so there are probably better ways of implementing what this mod does, but it should at least work.
do you have one for sand extractors too?
if not ill steam the code and modify it

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Re: pY Petroleum Handling

Post by pyanodon » Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:19 am

immortal_sniper1 wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:40 am
like someone already said ground borers are atm so expensive it is not worth using them
even before getting ores with them was pretty expensive , except borax nexelite and niobium,
i personally used them for lead since i ford acetylene so expensive , and also titanium
also drill fluid 2 3 need zipir and again that resource it is a pain to manage
also atm i am considering making a tailings generating build in order to get nexelite ore
Its like, your opinion man. :) For me, getting ores with ground borer was pretty cheaty, i saw people filling warehouses with that because a single oil processing setup can generate coal gas and lubricant easy and fast enough to keep a groud borer working 100% of the time. Ground borers are for get resources your map is lacking, way too far from your base or if you wanna turtle. Not an easy step to promote you to have infinite ores. A partial chain of nexelit for example can make you almost 50 plates with only one run of ground borer. Niobium, Mo and Nexelit are made to be rare and valuable resources.

About your complain over acetylene and zipirs..pyAL will bring alternatives.
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Re: pY Petroleum Handling

Post by Blokus » Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:10 pm

pyanodon wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:19 am
immortal_sniper1 wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:40 am
like someone already said ground borers are atm so expensive it is not worth using them
even before getting ores with them was pretty expensive , except borax nexelite and niobium,
i personally used them for lead since i ford acetylene so expensive , and also titanium
also drill fluid 2 3 need zipir and again that resource it is a pain to manage
also atm i am considering making a tailings generating build in order to get nexelite ore
Its like, your opinion man. :) For me, getting ores with ground borer was pretty cheaty, i saw people filling warehouses with that because a single oil processing setup can generate coal gas and lubricant easy and fast enough to keep a groud borer working 100% of the time. Ground borers are for get resources your map is lacking, way too far from your base or if you wanna turtle. Not an easy step to promote you to have infinite ores. A partial chain of nexelit for example can make you almost 50 plates with only one run of ground borer. Niobium, Mo and Nexelit are made to be rare and valuable resources.

About your complain over acetylene and zipirs..pyAL will bring alternatives.
I think part of the complaint about nexelit specifically is that:
  • you can't mine it until mega mines (and mega mines are their own can of worms). This is in contrast to molybdenum and niobium, which are both annoying to mine, but doable.
  • some people use it extensively to "cheat" some of your more difficult chains. For example, nexelit+organic matter -> syngas + methanol, which can be followed up nicely to make refined syngas.
In regards to nexelit specifically you also should probably be concerned about people doing things like what sniper said above, where they intentionally produce nexelit from intentionally-produced tailings. (For example, wash soil to sand, wash sand to pure sand, burn pure sand, you made water -> tailings.) Even if you manage to prevent that, it still undermines the possibility of using tailings for pretty much anything else except acid gas (which is sorta pointless with PH anyway because of coalbed gas).

I also still don't think it's reasonable to make defense-based arguments about your mods (e.g. "you can use the ground borer to turtle"). Most folks play with biters off or heavily nerfed.

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Re: pY Petroleum Handling

Post by otakushowboat » Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:04 pm

immortal_sniper1 wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:44 am
do you have one for sand extractors too?
if not ill steam the code and modify it
Don't know what you'd want from sand extractors. Those recipes just need iron sticks as it is and are arguably more exploitable than any of the ground boring recipes.
pyanodon wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:19 am
Its like, your opinion man. :) For me, getting ores with ground borer was pretty cheaty, i saw people filling warehouses with that because a single oil processing setup can generate coal gas and lubricant easy and fast enough to keep a groud borer working 100% of the time. Ground borers are for get resources your map is lacking, way too far from your base or if you wanna turtle. Not an easy step to promote you to have infinite ores. A partial chain of nexelit for example can make you almost 50 plates with only one run of ground borer. Niobium, Mo and Nexelit are made to be rare and valuable resources.

About your complain over acetylene and zipirs..pyAL will bring alternatives.
Such is the life of video game developers. Balance is hard stuff. That said, your arguments against infinite ore resources is undermined by the fact that there are already methods of getting infinite supplies of most other resources (coal and everything coal is used for, such as coke, tar, coal gas, syngas, power, and everything those products are used for, on top of things like O2 and H2). Solving the puzzle of obtaining resources infinitely has been part of the charm and fun of this mod set, whether or not you intended it to be.

The argument of lacking resources is moot on maps infinite in size (for all intents and purposes). With even the previous coal gas and lubricant recipes, the physical space required to set up ONLY a yellow belt of output (yellow belts are NOT a lot of material in the grand scheme of things when it comes to ore) was incredibly huge, acting as a deterrent for those with biters on to actually set it up in the first place.

Even with biters enabled, I think I'd probably still go through the effort of setting up distant outposts for resources lacking in the immediate area around my base rather than set up drilling fluid for ground boring. Heck, even WITHOUT biters enabled, without modding back lubricant, I still would have found it easier to start using rails and going long distances to get what I'm lacking than use ground borers.

As for wanting nexelit to be rare, sorry to break it to you, but those willing to set up a large enough production facility can make infinite amounts of tailings to convert to nexelit. You've probably seen my setup already turning Fawogae into coal gas + tar/heavy oil(/lubricant). Well, tar can be directly converted to tailings in quenching towers, plus you get lots of wonderful saline water and flue gas and even a bit of ore "byproducts" of choice. Since nexelit truly is free anyway, I really see no need to EVER use ground borers when they require drilling fluid. However ...

As much as I've complained about drilling fluid thus far, I already have a concept in my mind on how to get all three fluids infinitely, or at least semi-infinitely or self-perpetuating, with sufficiently large setups for power, water, iron plates, and copper ore + plates. I haven't done the math to check if the iron + copper could be self-perpetuating, or perhaps if I could use byproducts of the quenching tower iron + copper recipe from tar (which is infinite via mushroom coal) to make what's needed to sustain the system.

Of course, to do what I'm thinking about would require being in a base that's post-circuit 2, which as you've said, very few ever get to anyway, as it would make use of the copper plate to silver plate particle accelerator recipe (silver is needed in the ethylene glycol chain for drilling fluid 2 and 3).

While I'm on the topic of the particle accelerator (though this doesn't quite relate to PyPH per se), if you're worried about folks cheating your intended chains, Kimberlite processing can be fully bypassed, as well. With sufficiently large space for power generation and graphite production (which, again, is "free" from mushroom-based coal, and power is infinite as well), one can get as many diamonds as they could ever desire from particle accelerators converting graphite to diamonds without the need to ever set up any of the ingredients used in the kimberlite chain such as grease.

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Re: pY Petroleum Handling

Post by pyanodon » Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:24 pm

otakushowboat wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:04 pm

Such is the life of video game developers. Balance is hard stuff. That said, your arguments against infinite ore resources is undermined by the fact that there are already methods of getting infinite supplies of most other resources (coal and everything coal is used for, such as coke, tar, coal gas, syngas, power, and everything those products are used for, on top of things like O2 and H2). Solving the puzzle of obtaining resources infinitely has been part of the charm and fun of this mod set, whether or not you intended it to be.

The argument of lacking resources is moot on maps infinite in size (for all intents and purposes). With even the previous coal gas and lubricant recipes, the physical space required to set up ONLY a yellow belt of output (yellow belts are NOT a lot of material in the grand scheme of things when it comes to ore) was incredibly huge, acting as a deterrent for those with biters on to actually set it up in the first place.

Even with biters enabled, I think I'd probably still go through the effort of setting up distant outposts for resources lacking in the immediate area around my base rather than set up drilling fluid for ground boring. Heck, even WITHOUT biters enabled, without modding back lubricant, I still would have found it easier to start using rails and going long distances to get what I'm lacking than use ground borers.

As for wanting nexelit to be rare, sorry to break it to you, but those willing to set up a large enough production facility can make infinite amounts of tailings to convert to nexelit. You've probably seen my setup already turning Fawogae into coal gas + tar/heavy oil(/lubricant). Well, tar can be directly converted to tailings in quenching towers, plus you get lots of wonderful saline water and flue gas and even a bit of ore "byproducts" of choice. Since nexelit truly is free anyway, I really see no need to EVER use ground borers when they require drilling fluid. However ...

As much as I've complained about drilling fluid thus far, I already have a concept in my mind on how to get all three fluids infinitely, or at least semi-infinitely or self-perpetuating, with sufficiently large setups for power, water, iron plates, and copper ore + plates. I haven't done the math to check if the iron + copper could be self-perpetuating, or perhaps if I could use byproducts of the quenching tower iron + copper recipe from tar (which is infinite via mushroom coal) to make what's needed to sustain the system.

Of course, to do what I'm thinking about would require being in a base that's post-circuit 2, which as you've said, very few ever get to anyway, as it would make use of the copper plate to silver plate particle accelerator recipe (silver is needed in the ethylene glycol chain for drilling fluid 2 and 3).

While I'm on the topic of the particle accelerator (though this doesn't quite relate to PyPH per se), if you're worried about folks cheating your intended chains, Kimberlite processing can be fully bypassed, as well. With sufficiently large space for power generation and graphite production (which, again, is "free" from mushroom-based coal, and power is infinite as well), one can get as many diamonds as they could ever desire from particle accelerators converting graphite to diamonds without the need to ever set up any of the ingredients used in the kimberlite chain such as grease.
Thanks for the explanation. YEs, py mods are about choices. The way it was designed its impossible to NOT make almost everything from "nothing". The easy way to get tailings and nexelit from it is the answer for other people comments here. He is called rare, because you cant mine it from ore patches, only by tailings, mega mines and small other stuff. I watch your streams and other people too, its a very good info for me and i collect lots of feedbacks. You are VERY technical (almost as Immortal_sniper on my discord), love math and such to fine tune your base while other people just do it at will and deal with the surprises when they happens. One thing is for sure, i will never make everyone happy. Changes and stuff will come to my mods and its natural to people not be glad for some of them.

About PA, well...its a good easy way to get small amounts of required material, i personally like it...even some users just ignoring an entire chain such as diamonds. They are making choices and its good to see. Maybe in the future, i balance it more etc to be an alternative for those dont have much kimberlite deposits in their map.
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Re: pY Petroleum Handling

Post by immortal_sniper1 » Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:29 pm

otakushowboat wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:04 pm
immortal_sniper1 wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:44 am
do you have one for sand extractors too?
if not ill steam the code and modify it
Don't know what you'd want from sand extractors. Those recipes just need iron sticks as it is and are arguably more exploitable than any of the ground boring recipes.
pyanodon wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:19 am
Its like, your opinion man. :) For me, getting ores with ground borer was pretty cheaty, i saw people filling warehouses with that because a single oil processing setup can generate coal gas and lubricant easy and fast enough to keep a groud borer working 100% of the time. Ground borers are for get resources your map is lacking, way too far from your base or if you wanna turtle. Not an easy step to promote you to have infinite ores. A partial chain of nexelit for example can make you almost 50 plates with only one run of ground borer. Niobium, Mo and Nexelit are made to be rare and valuable resources.

About your complain over acetylene and zipirs..pyAL will bring alternatives.
Such is the life of video game developers. Balance is hard stuff. That said, your arguments against infinite ore resources is undermined by the fact that there are already methods of getting infinite supplies of most other resources (coal and everything coal is used for, such as coke, tar, coal gas, syngas, power, and everything those products are used for, on top of things like O2 and H2). Solving the puzzle of obtaining resources infinitely has been part of the charm and fun of this mod set, whether or not you intended it to be.

The argument of lacking resources is moot on maps infinite in size (for all intents and purposes). With even the previous coal gas and lubricant recipes, the physical space required to set up ONLY a yellow belt of output (yellow belts are NOT a lot of material in the grand scheme of things when it comes to ore) was incredibly huge, acting as a deterrent for those with biters on to actually set it up in the first place.

Even with biters enabled, I think I'd probably still go through the effort of setting up distant outposts for resources lacking in the immediate area around my base rather than set up drilling fluid for ground boring. Heck, even WITHOUT biters enabled, without modding back lubricant, I still would have found it easier to start using rails and going long distances to get what I'm lacking than use ground borers.

As for wanting nexelit to be rare, sorry to break it to you, but those willing to set up a large enough production facility can make infinite amounts of tailings to convert to nexelit. You've probably seen my setup already turning Fawogae into coal gas + tar/heavy oil(/lubricant). Well, tar can be directly converted to tailings in quenching towers, plus you get lots of wonderful saline water and flue gas and even a bit of ore "byproducts" of choice. Since nexelit truly is free anyway, I really see no need to EVER use ground borers when they require drilling fluid. However ...

As much as I've complained about drilling fluid thus far, I already have a concept in my mind on how to get all three fluids infinitely, or at least semi-infinitely or self-perpetuating, with sufficiently large setups for power, water, iron plates, and copper ore + plates. I haven't done the math to check if the iron + copper could be self-perpetuating, or perhaps if I could use byproducts of the quenching tower iron + copper recipe from tar (which is infinite via mushroom coal) to make what's needed to sustain the system.

Of course, to do what I'm thinking about would require being in a base that's post-circuit 2, which as you've said, very few ever get to anyway, as it would make use of the copper plate to silver plate particle accelerator recipe (silver is needed in the ethylene glycol chain for drilling fluid 2 and 3).

While I'm on the topic of the particle accelerator (though this doesn't quite relate to PyPH per se), if you're worried about folks cheating your intended chains, Kimberlite processing can be fully bypassed, as well. With sufficiently large space for power generation and graphite production (which, again, is "free" from mushroom-based coal, and power is infinite as well), one can get as many diamonds as they could ever desire from particle accelerators converting graphite to diamonds without the need to ever set up any of the ingredients used in the kimberlite chain such as grease.
some time ago py nerfed hard the speed of them it was 2 energy needed now it is 5
also he thought it was too cheep but i needed to use iron to begin with if i was truly cheep i could have made water>soil>sand for like 0 cost but those builds are larger so i used sand extractors also they were in good ration in many chains

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