pY Raw Ores Discussion

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by aklesey1 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:41 pm

pyanodon wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:39 pm
aklesey1 wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:23 pm
I have balance question about iron chain
6 raw iron gives 1 plate
2 iron oxide gives 1 plate

When using Helmod I came to the conclusion that iron oxide is more profitable to smelt on the plates than to use them in iron chain

May be here poeple already disscussed balance questions - too much reading, too much text, pls sorry :? :oops:

I'm looking on iron slime recipe and 20 iron oxide which'll give 1 plate its some dearly may be its can be 10 iron oxide or may be increase output yield? Or if 6 raw iron ore gives 1 plate, 4 iron oxide can give 1 plate not 2 iron oxide? :?: With this change iron oxide will not suffer bcuz we have many ways to get it even in begiging of the game ;)
Just remeber that we'll need any science packs 1 to open crusher technology and iron smelting stage 1 :!:

The production of iron-oxide isnt enough to keep a base. it´s a side product and there´s no specific recipe for it, except in pyHT.
it is conceived that the melting of iron oxide in less profitable than smelting iron ore?
Iron slime.png
Iron slime.png (134.99 KiB) Viewed 669 times
For what this recipe was created? :?: With the release of the update you have reduced the chances of obtaining iron oxide and now its more rare resource and using iron oxide for iron slime makes me bewilderment :(
I can produce iron slime from iron dust ore its more profitable for now :!:
Then it doesn't make much sense and benefit - we need too many iron oxide to produce iron slime - i agree that i'll need to produce many iron oxide to keep that production, but if i'll want to produce many many iron oxide i'll find the way to do it ;)

Just imagine that i have surplus of iron oxide and want smelt it i have 2 varianrts:
1) Smelt it in common furnace and get more plates
2) Get iron slime from it by combining with tailings water and get less iron plates from smelting unslimed iron

Another part of iron chain works good when smelting iron ore
But i have suggestion - if we need 6 pieces of iron ore to 1 iron in common furnace plate may be we need 6 iron oxide for 1 iron plate in common furnace (not 2 iron oxide for 1 iron plate) - this change will make shift to ideal balance in iron chain :D

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by immortal_sniper1 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:54 pm

aklesey1 wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:41 pm
pyanodon wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:39 pm
aklesey1 wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:23 pm
I have balance question about iron chain
6 raw iron gives 1 plate
2 iron oxide gives 1 plate

When using Helmod I came to the conclusion that iron oxide is more profitable to smelt on the plates than to use them in iron chain

May be here poeple already disscussed balance questions - too much reading, too much text, pls sorry :? :oops:

I'm looking on iron slime recipe and 20 iron oxide which'll give 1 plate its some dearly may be its can be 10 iron oxide or may be increase output yield? Or if 6 raw iron ore gives 1 plate, 4 iron oxide can give 1 plate not 2 iron oxide? :?: With this change iron oxide will not suffer bcuz we have many ways to get it even in begiging of the game ;)
Just remeber that we'll need any science packs 1 to open crusher technology and iron smelting stage 1 :!:

The production of iron-oxide isnt enough to keep a base. it´s a side product and there´s no specific recipe for it, except in pyHT.
it is conceived that the melting of iron oxide in less profitable than smelting iron ore?
Iron slime.png
For what this recipe was created? :?: With the release of the update you have reduced the chances of obtaining iron oxide and now its more rare resource and using iron oxide for iron slime makes me bewilderment :(
I can produce iron slime from iron dust ore its more profitable for now :!:
Then it doesn't make much sense and benefit - we need too many iron oxide to produce iron slime - i agree that i'll need to produce many iron oxide to keep that production, but if i'll want to produce many many iron oxide i'll find the way to do it ;)

Just imagine that i have surplus of iron oxide and want smelt it i have 2 varianrts:
1) Smelt it in common furnace and get more plates
2) Get iron slime from it by combining with tailings water and get less iron plates from smelting unslimed iron

Another part of iron chain works good when smelting iron ore
But i have suggestion - if we need 6 pieces of iron ore to 1 iron in common furnace plate may be we need 6 iron oxide for 1 iron plate in common furnace (not 2 iron oxide for 1 iron plate) - this change will make shift to ideal balance in iron chain :D
that might work but keep in ming that nearly all of that iron oxide will be needed for ferrite and or that iron based solvent for copper chain stuff
a lot for phosphate glass and some solvent some also in the gold chain and some other uses too
smelting it into iron is a waste anyway

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by pyanodon » Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:00 pm

use that recipe when iron oxide is pilling up for you.
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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by aklesey1 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:45 pm

pyanodon wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:00 pm
use that recipe when iron oxide is pilling up for you.
I can hardly imagine such a situation :lol:
But smelting only 2 iron oxide for 1 iron plate cheaply vs 6 iron ore for 1 iron plate :(

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by pyanodon » Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:49 pm

so, dont use it. ;)
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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by Mella » Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:23 pm

pyanodon wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:00 pm
use that recipe when iron oxide is pilling up for you.
I must agree with aklesey1
Immortal_sniper we speaking only about smelting iron oxide into iron plates no another goals
If iron oxide will pilling up for me its make more and more sense to smelt it in common furnace - its okey if i want to get iron plates and no other goals - if i'll want to get ferrite i'll think about it

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by immortal_sniper1 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:20 pm

Mella wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:23 pm
pyanodon wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:00 pm
use that recipe when iron oxide is pilling up for you.
I must agree with aklesey1
Immortal_sniper we speaking only about smelting iron oxide into iron plates no another goals
If iron oxide will pilling up for me its make more and more sense to smelt it in common furnace - its okey if i want to get iron plates and no other goals - if i'll want to get ferrite i'll think about it
yes i also have a iron oxide overflow smelting thing
BUT what i found out in my games is that tipicaly i need a lot of iron oxide for other stuff and i end up using nitrobenzene to make oxide from plates anyway
I THINK ABOUT THE IRON OXIDE THE FOLLOWING WAY
1 do i have t smelt it now to get an iron plate boost or not and use plates to make oxide later
2 store it to use it later

also it is normat that the oxide is very iron productive since it is literary 40% iron (atom count )
while the ore is 1:6 so 16.67% iron content ( when extracted in the primitive stone furnace )
historicaly even the ore after smelting was worth extracting iron from ( after the Etruscan smelted the iron they piled the ore-ash slag n piles centuries later the italiens mined those piles to extract iron from them )

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by aklesey1 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:15 pm

How u people cn't understand
If i have choice to smelt iron oxide or use it for other things - I HAVE 2 WAYS:
1) Smelt it in common furnace
2) Or use it for iron slime ang go to iron pulp 1 + iron pulp 2+ iron pulp 3 + iron pulp 4 + iron pulp 5 + iron pulp 6 + iron pulp 7 + high grade iron + reduced iron + sintered iron + and FINALLY - molten iron :D

When iron chain was presented i thought that iron oxide will excellent way to boost my iron oxide production :P
But no..... :cry:
We need diesel, then we need xylenol, then we need petroleum sulfonates................................... and after all these actions i can't get profit from iron oxide............. sorry what............ :?
I'll repeat - 2 iron oxide is too easy to get 1 iron plate even if in the start we can't get more, later we'll have more ways to get iron oxide - for example - sorting of sand - 100% chance to get 2 iron oxide from 20 sand

When using Helmod 8-) i calculated that for iron plate when going by the way with all iron pulps i need 4,8 iron oxide for 1 plate
Direct smelting in common furnace will give to use about 2,5 iron plates but not 1 plate
So i'm asking why we need this
Iron slime.png
Iron slime.png (134.99 KiB) Viewed 624 times
And after that i must get diesel + xylenol + petroleum sulfonates and i have no profit from iron oxide... do u understand people that 1 part of iron chain not correct, its loks like broken
If i want to get molten iron from iron pulp 7 i except good result - i just want to start from iron oxide not from iron here's the difference ;)

Its for now

Code: Select all

RECIPE {
    type = "recipe",
    name = "iron-slime",
    category = "chemistry", --pyfe mixer
    enabled = false,
    energy_required = 3,
    ingredients = {
        {type = "item", name = "iron-oxide", amount = 20},
        {type = "fluid", name = "dirty-water", amount = 300},
    },
    results = {
        {type = "fluid", name = "iron-slime", amount = 50},
    },
    main_product = "iron-slime",
    subgroup = "py-rawores-recipes",
    order = "q-2"
}:add_unlock("iron-mk03"):change_category('mixer')
So it can be as i imagine ;)

Code: Select all

RECIPE {
    type = "recipe",
    name = "iron-slime",
    category = "chemistry", --pyfe mixer
    enabled = false,
    energy_required = 3,
    ingredients = {
        {type = "item", name = "iron-oxide", amount = 6},
        {type = "fluid", name = "dirty-water", amount = 300},
    },
    results = {
        {type = "fluid", name = "iron-slime", amount = 50},
    },
    main_product = "iron-slime",
    subgroup = "py-rawores-recipes",
    order = "q-2"
}:add_unlock("iron-mk03"):change_category('mixer')
Iron slime corrected.png
Iron slime corrected.png (120.07 KiB) Viewed 624 times
with this change it will make some sense :P

For example when i used Angel's Smelting i was so happy to have more profit, no serioes issues, all was fair :)
Do u played with Angel's Smelting immortal_sniper1?

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by immortal_sniper1 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:54 pm

aklesey1 wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:15 pm
How u people cn't understand
If i have choice to smelt iron oxide or use it for other things - I HAVE 2 WAYS:
1) Smelt it in common furnace
2) Or use it for iron slime ang go to iron pulp 1 + iron pulp 2+ iron pulp 3 + iron pulp 4 + iron pulp 5 + iron pulp 6 + iron pulp 7 + high grade iron + reduced iron + sintered iron + and FINALLY - molten iron :D

When iron chain was presented i thought that iron oxide will excellent way to boost my iron oxide production :P
But no..... :cry:
We need diesel, then we need xylenol, then we need petroleum sulfonates................................... and after all these actions i can't get profit from iron oxide............. sorry what............ :?
I'll repeat - 2 iron oxide is too easy to get 1 iron plate even if in the start we can't get more, later we'll have more ways to get iron oxide - for example - sorting of sand - 100% chance to get 2 iron oxide from 20 sand

When using Helmod 8-) i calculated that for iron plate when going by the way with all iron pulps i need 4,8 iron oxide for 1 plate
Direct smelting in common furnace will give to use about 2,5 iron plates but not 1 plate
So i'm asking why we need this
Iron slime.png
And after that i must get diesel + xylenol + petroleum sulfonates and i have no profit from iron oxide... do u understand people that 1 part of iron chain not correct, its loks like broken
If i want to get molten iron from iron pulp 7 i except good result - i just want to start from iron oxide not from iron here's the difference ;)

Its for now

Code: Select all

RECIPE {
    type = "recipe",
    name = "iron-slime",
    category = "chemistry", --pyfe mixer
    enabled = false,
    energy_required = 3,
    ingredients = {
        {type = "item", name = "iron-oxide", amount = 20},
        {type = "fluid", name = "dirty-water", amount = 300},
    },
    results = {
        {type = "fluid", name = "iron-slime", amount = 50},
    },
    main_product = "iron-slime",
    subgroup = "py-rawores-recipes",
    order = "q-2"
}:add_unlock("iron-mk03"):change_category('mixer')
So it can be as i imagine ;)

Code: Select all

RECIPE {
    type = "recipe",
    name = "iron-slime",
    category = "chemistry", --pyfe mixer
    enabled = false,
    energy_required = 3,
    ingredients = {
        {type = "item", name = "iron-oxide", amount = 6},
        {type = "fluid", name = "dirty-water", amount = 300},
    },
    results = {
        {type = "fluid", name = "iron-slime", amount = 50},
    },
    main_product = "iron-slime",
    subgroup = "py-rawores-recipes",
    order = "q-2"
}:add_unlock("iron-mk03"):change_category('mixer')
Iron slime corrected.png

with this change it will make some sense :P

For example when i used Angel's Smelting i was so happy to have more profit, no serioes issues, all was fair :)
Do u played with Angel's Smelting immortal_sniper1?
now i get what you wanted to say
i say:
i didnt do the math for iron oxide since i knew i wouldn't smelt that ( except for making steal since you get a very good deal that way last time i checked )
xylenol is made also from tar
regarding sorting sand : 2 from 20 is not great ratio and im not sure what you get besices oxide from that process
also you need to get the sand in the first place
sand extractor -requires iron STICK so its sorta a iron loop
crush stone - please no 9:16 is not great
sand from washing soil - cheapest way largest build size and power consumption

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by immortal_sniper1 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:55 pm

and no i dont play with AB smelting but i have a good knoledge of the process

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by aklesey1 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:58 pm

In the end of the end i played in multiplayer with 3 my friends and they don't like iron slime and unslimed iron using
They have same question - why to get iron slime from iron oxide if it better to smelt iron oxide directly
Last edited by aklesey1 on Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by neurofish » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:08 pm

Guys, i think, there is some additional consideration in case of low yield high tiers metal smelting - the more processing steps we have then more growth by production modules that can be achieved (exponentially vs linearly). May be, it's the sense of this

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by pyanodon » Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:28 pm

Balanced Aluminium chain release ready. Please update your mod.
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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by ulmennaleith » Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:11 am

Thanks ! The new aluminium chain looks really nice :) (duralumin from molten aluminium is also way better now)

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by pyanodon » Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:26 am

major update on chains tomorrow.
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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by aklesey1 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:49 am

pyanodon wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:26 am
major update on chains tomorrow.
In update 1.0.9 i found that the iron and copper costs 10 raw ores for 1 plate + zinc and aluminium costs 10 raw ores for 1 plate too :(
I agree with changes for aluminium and zinc but why to change iron and copper?????? So now its hard hard problem to start new map :!: , especially resent the inability to normally produce iron plates - i new to build many may thigs like belt, like pipes and many other starter buildings, i'll spent really many time for it when get new iron and copper technologies at last

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by pyanodon » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:07 pm

Updated...please grab a new copy.. Several stuff. read the changelog.
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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by Ronin » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:45 pm

Hello Pyanodon,

I have discovered another deadlock in Carbon Aerogel where it requires High Grade Quartz.

The Carbon Aerogel is a necessary component to the creation of Nanoelectromechanical Systems which is used to create the High Tech science packs.

The High Grade Quartz is unlocked in Quartz Ore Processing 04, which requires the High Tech science packs.

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by SuperSandro2000 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:39 pm

Could you post the changelog to the mod portal (best in changelog.txt)? I am to lazy to always go to the not directly linked thread.

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by pyanodon » Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:29 pm

Ronin wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:45 pm
Hello Pyanodon,

I have discovered another deadlock in Carbon Aerogel where it requires High Grade Quartz.

The Carbon Aerogel is a necessary component to the creation of Nanoelectromechanical Systems which is used to create the High Tech science packs.

The High Grade Quartz is unlocked in Quartz Ore Processing 04, which requires the High Tech science packs.
Thank you...confirmed and fixed. Will come in the next release.
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