Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:52 pm
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first lead chain and chrome are exceptions since at high tier you get 2 metals so at low mied you get just onepolitehnik wrote: ↑Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:29 pmhi and thank you for great mods!
There are some things I found strange.
*Warning* here goes wall of text (sorry for my bad English)
1) How does metal grades work? Some metals become better with grades, some not. Here's amount of plates I can get from metals of different grades, assuming that I have all the technologies but refuse to use metals of higher grades:
Lead:___raw- 0.15 pl.| Grade1- 2 pl.| Grade2- 1 pl.| Grade3- 1 pl.
Iron:____raw- 0.1 pl.| Grade1- 3 pl.| Grade2- 3 pl.| Grade3- 3 pl.
Copper:_raw- 0.1 pl.| Grade1- 0 pl.| Grade2- 2 pl.| Grade3- 0.25 pl.| Grade4- 8.33 pl.
Nickel:__raw- 0.15 pl.| Grade1- 0.4 pl.| Grade2- 0 pl.| Grade3- 3 pl.| Grade4- 15pl.*
2) Some metal processing researches does not give any reasonable profit. Here's amount of plates per ore for lead, that you can get using all the technologies of "lead processing..." research: lp00- 0.15* pl/ore; lp01- 0.4 pl/ore; lp02- 0.5 pl/ore; lp03- 0.55 pl/ore; lp04-0.575 pl/ore. (if I miscalculated something, I'm sorry )
Going all the way from "lg03" to "lg04" technologies results only in 0.025 lead plates per ore (only 1 plate profit from 40 ore pieces).
Something similar happens with nickel (unfortunately I didn't test all other metals yet).
It's somehow realistic, but is not optimal in game point of view. There is no point in making all this beautiful machines and technological schemes as of right now. I think it would be better to buff mid and high grade technologies (at least for lead and nickel). Maybe change it to make more profit with better grades? (lead for example: lp00- 0.15* pl/ore; lp01- 0.2 pl/ore; lp02- 0.3 pl/ore; lp03- 0.45 pl/ore; lp04-0.65 pl/ore)
3) Looks like this charts are outdated: viewtopic.php?f=219&t=61835
PS all calculations were carried out using only full PyMods pack and FNEI.
yes you can its made from sulfur and iron /iron oxide one of those 2 and another 2 waysSchattenlord wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:39 amHello Pyanodon, I tried to improve my power production with solar panels and discovered that I can't produce Pyrite. The technology chain said it was unlocked with Raw Coal 01 but I can't find it in the crafting menu. Did I miss something?
thank you very much for the quick reply. I was aware of this way but I can't find out in which maschine I can produce it. Usually it is displayed in the crafting menu with a symbol of the required building/s. (for example all the oil processing stuff is there as well and it says that you need a chemical plant or oil refinery) but I can't find the one for Pyrite.immortal_sniper1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:58 amyes you can its made from sulfur and iron /iron oxide one of those 2 and another 2 waysSchattenlord wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:39 amHello Pyanodon, I tried to improve my power production with solar panels and discovered that I can't produce Pyrite. The technology chain said it was unlocked with Raw Coal 01 but I can't find it in the crafting menu. Did I miss something?
some recipes are only available on crafting machines
building for the 2 that produce mainly pyrite is high presure furnace ( tech coal1 ; mining maschines 3)Schattenlord wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:54 amthank you very much for the quick reply. I was aware of this way but I can't find out in which maschine I can produce it. Usually it is displayed in the crafting menu with a symbol of the required building/s. (for example all the oil processing stuff is there as well and it says that you need a chemical plant or oil refinery) but I can't find the one for Pyrite.immortal_sniper1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:58 amyes you can its made from sulfur and iron /iron oxide one of those 2 and another 2 waysSchattenlord wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:39 amHello Pyanodon, I tried to improve my power production with solar panels and discovered that I can't produce Pyrite. The technology chain said it was unlocked with Raw Coal 01 but I can't find it in the crafting menu. Did I miss something?
some recipes are only available on crafting machines
It also looks like that I have the same problem with the Centrifugal Pan. I have unlocked the technology (now mining maschines 02 after the update) but it isn't in the crafting menu. Any suggestion what it can be?
I am using Recipe Explorer Mod to see the what is produced where.immortal_sniper1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:35 ambuilding for the 2 that produce mainly pyrite is high presure furnace ( tech coal1 ; mining maschines 3)Schattenlord wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:54 amthank you very much for the quick reply. I was aware of this way but I can't find out in which maschine I can produce it. Usually it is displayed in the crafting menu with a symbol of the required building/s. (for example all the oil processing stuff is there as well and it says that you need a chemical plant or oil refinery) but I can't find the one for Pyrite.immortal_sniper1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:58 amyes you can its made from sulfur and iron /iron oxide one of those 2 and another 2 waysSchattenlord wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:39 amHello Pyanodon, I tried to improve my power production with solar panels and discovered that I can't produce Pyrite. The technology chain said it was unlocked with Raw Coal 01 but I can't find it in the crafting menu. Did I miss something?
some recipes are only available on crafting machines
It also looks like that I have the same problem with the Centrifugal Pan. I have unlocked the technology (now mining maschines 02 after the update) but it isn't in the crafting menu. Any suggestion what it can be?
regarding the pan dont you need some coal tech ?
use FNEI mod to see what is made where and from what
aklesey1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:37 pmMy suggestion about salt production
Salt evaporation from 200 common water with 50% chance
PY salt_cmn_water.png
Of course may be to keep balance in PY mods that chance can be like 25% not 50%
But its more or less stable method to get salt
Just i'll say again - its too hard to get niobium plates - 1 niobium plates requires 10 salt
Super steel and stainless steel requires niobium plates
Niobium plates and its niobium pipes are also used in many hi-tech buildings
Fuel rods MK01 requires niobium plates
And fuel rods MK01 are used in specific range of recipes like super alloy, for glass production, for silver plates, for NdFeB alloy, for control units which are used for many Super-Mines
And of course fuel rod MK01 is excellent fuel for boilers, for furnaces which requires fuel to work
Thank u for agreeing with mepyanodon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:39 pmgood! i will think about itaklesey1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:37 pmMy suggestion about salt production
Salt evaporation from 200 common water with 50% chance
PY salt_cmn_water.png
Of course may be to keep balance in PY mods that chance can be like 25% not 50%
But its more or less stable method to get salt
Just i'll say again - its too hard to get niobium plates - 1 niobium plates requires 10 salt
Super steel and stainless steel requires niobium plates
Niobium plates and its niobium pipes are also used in many hi-tech buildings
Fuel rods MK01 requires niobium plates
And fuel rods MK01 are used in specific range of recipes like super alloy, for glass production, for silver plates, for NdFeB alloy, for control units which are used for many Super-Mines
And of course fuel rod MK01 is excellent fuel for boilers, for furnaces which requires fuel to work
why not mine the salt in the first place?aklesey1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:37 pmMy suggestion about salt production
Salt evaporation from 200 common water with 50% chance
PY salt_cmn_water.png
Of course may be to keep balance in PY mods that chance can be like 25% not 50%
But its more or less stable method to get salt
Just i'll say again - its too hard to get niobium plates - 1 niobium plates requires 10 salt
Super steel and stainless steel requires niobium plates
Niobium plates and its niobium pipes are also used in many hi-tech buildings
Fuel rods MK01 requires niobium plates
And fuel rods MK01 are used in specific range of recipes like super alloy, for glass production, for silver plates, for NdFeB alloy, for control units which are used for many Super-Mines
And of course fuel rod MK01 is excellent fuel for boilers, for furnaces which requires fuel to work
I'm planning to make table of plate production for all metals where I would point all things I think could be improved. It will show all semi-products and how many plates you can make on each level of ore processing at max using 500 ores. Right now iron, copper and tin are done. However it takes time, so I want to ask - would this tables be of use for you? If so - I'll gladly share it when it is done.immortal_sniper1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:29 pmfirst lead chain and chrome are exceptions since at high tier you get 2 metals so at low mied you get just onepolitehnik wrote: ↑Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:29 pmhi and thank you for great mods!
There are some things I found strange.
*Warning* here goes wall of text (sorry for my bad English)
1) How does metal grades work? Some metals become better with grades, some not. Here's amount of plates I can get from metals of different grades, assuming that I have all the technologies but refuse to use metals of higher grades:
Lead:___raw- 0.15 pl.| Grade1- 2 pl.| Grade2- 1 pl.| Grade3- 1 pl.
Iron:____raw- 0.1 pl.| Grade1- 3 pl.| Grade2- 3 pl.| Grade3- 3 pl.
Copper:_raw- 0.1 pl.| Grade1- 0 pl.| Grade2- 2 pl.| Grade3- 0.25 pl.| Grade4- 8.33 pl.
Nickel:__raw- 0.15 pl.| Grade1- 0.4 pl.| Grade2- 0 pl.| Grade3- 3 pl.| Grade4- 15pl.*
2) Some metal processing researches does not give any reasonable profit. Here's amount of plates per ore for lead, that you can get using all the technologies of "lead processing..." research: lp00- 0.15* pl/ore; lp01- 0.4 pl/ore; lp02- 0.5 pl/ore; lp03- 0.55 pl/ore; lp04-0.575 pl/ore. (if I miscalculated something, I'm sorry )
Going all the way from "lg03" to "lg04" technologies results only in 0.025 lead plates per ore (only 1 plate profit from 40 ore pieces).
Something similar happens with nickel (unfortunately I didn't test all other metals yet).
It's somehow realistic, but is not optimal in game point of view. There is no point in making all this beautiful machines and technological schemes as of right now. I think it would be better to buff mid and high grade technologies (at least for lead and nickel). Maybe change it to make more profit with better grades? (lead for example: lp00- 0.15* pl/ore; lp01- 0.2 pl/ore; lp02- 0.3 pl/ore; lp03- 0.45 pl/ore; lp04-0.65 pl/ore)
3) Looks like this charts are outdated: viewtopic.php?f=219&t=61835
PS all calculations were carried out using only full PyMods pack and FNEI.
make math based on 100 input pls or 120 ( 3 blue belts since decimals are hard to follow)
i have been helping py balance chains but process is slow and we didnt do those chais yet
also for some products both direct smelting and melting is available and not sometimes one is better the the other
and yes i also did similar math and found some problems
we actualy balance stuff that way we make a table graph and calculatepolitehnik wrote: ↑Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:22 amI'm planning to make table of plate production for all metals where I would point all things I think could be improved. It will show all semi-products and how many plates you can make on each level of ore processing at max using 500 ores. Right now iron, copper and tin are done. However it takes time, so I want to ask - would this tables be of use for you? If so - I'll gladly share it when it is done.immortal_sniper1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:29 pmfirst lead chain and chrome are exceptions since at high tier you get 2 metals so at low mied you get just onepolitehnik wrote: ↑Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:29 pmhi and thank you for great mods!
There are some things I found strange.
*Warning* here goes wall of text (sorry for my bad English)
1) How does metal grades work? Some metals become better with grades, some not. Here's amount of plates I can get from metals of different grades, assuming that I have all the technologies but refuse to use metals of higher grades:
Lead:___raw- 0.15 pl.| Grade1- 2 pl.| Grade2- 1 pl.| Grade3- 1 pl.
Iron:____raw- 0.1 pl.| Grade1- 3 pl.| Grade2- 3 pl.| Grade3- 3 pl.
Copper:_raw- 0.1 pl.| Grade1- 0 pl.| Grade2- 2 pl.| Grade3- 0.25 pl.| Grade4- 8.33 pl.
Nickel:__raw- 0.15 pl.| Grade1- 0.4 pl.| Grade2- 0 pl.| Grade3- 3 pl.| Grade4- 15pl.*
2) Some metal processing researches does not give any reasonable profit. Here's amount of plates per ore for lead, that you can get using all the technologies of "lead processing..." research: lp00- 0.15* pl/ore; lp01- 0.4 pl/ore; lp02- 0.5 pl/ore; lp03- 0.55 pl/ore; lp04-0.575 pl/ore. (if I miscalculated something, I'm sorry )
Going all the way from "lg03" to "lg04" technologies results only in 0.025 lead plates per ore (only 1 plate profit from 40 ore pieces).
Something similar happens with nickel (unfortunately I didn't test all other metals yet).
It's somehow realistic, but is not optimal in game point of view. There is no point in making all this beautiful machines and technological schemes as of right now. I think it would be better to buff mid and high grade technologies (at least for lead and nickel). Maybe change it to make more profit with better grades? (lead for example: lp00- 0.15* pl/ore; lp01- 0.2 pl/ore; lp02- 0.3 pl/ore; lp03- 0.45 pl/ore; lp04-0.65 pl/ore)
3) Looks like this charts are outdated: viewtopic.php?f=219&t=61835
PS all calculations were carried out using only full PyMods pack and FNEI.
make math based on 100 input pls or 120 ( 3 blue belts since decimals are hard to follow)
i have been helping py balance chains but process is slow and we didnt do those chais yet
also for some products both direct smelting and melting is available and not sometimes one is better the the other
and yes i also did similar math and found some problems
it is conceived that the melting of iron oxide in less profitable than smelting iron ore? For what this recipe was created? With the release of the update you have reduced the chances of obtaining iron oxide and now its more rare resource and using iron oxide for iron slime makes me bewildermentpyanodon wrote: ↑Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:39 pmaklesey1 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:23 pmI have balance question about iron chain
6 raw iron gives 1 plate
2 iron oxide gives 1 plate
When using Helmod I came to the conclusion that iron oxide is more profitable to smelt on the plates than to use them in iron chain
May be here poeple already disscussed balance questions - too much reading, too much text, pls sorry
I'm looking on iron slime recipe and 20 iron oxide which'll give 1 plate its some dearly may be its can be 10 iron oxide or may be increase output yield? Or if 6 raw iron ore gives 1 plate, 4 iron oxide can give 1 plate not 2 iron oxide? With this change iron oxide will not suffer bcuz we have many ways to get it even in begiging of the game
Just remeber that we'll need any science packs 1 to open crusher technology and iron smelting stage 1
The production of iron-oxide isnt enough to keep a base. it´s a side product and there´s no specific recipe for it, except in pyHT.