pY Raw Ores Discussion

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by pyanodon » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:19 am

Ronin wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:36 am
Hello Pyanadon.

I have been enjoying your mods but I think I now have a blocker, or at least one to me.

The blocker is due to the injection of Super-alloy too early in the research stream, in particular, the addition to the recipe for the Centrifuge.

I have all the ingredients available to make the Super-alloy except for HE4 which has me at a standstill. I know of only 2 ways in which to get initial HE4. The first is the crack Liquid Clean Air into Dry Gas Stream which gives off HE4 as a byproduct. The second is through Particle Accelerator. Then after the ability to create Ethanolamime, the main flow is as laid out in your diagrams to start with petgas through to Dry Gas Stream where combined with Ethanolamine to create High Purified Gas and then on through the chain. https://imgur.com/a/OQuU6

Ethanolamine requires GenLab and Bio Reactors for the creation which both require Super-alloy so that path is not viable.
The cracking of the Liquid Clean Air is blocked at the previous point in the chain of creating Cold Clean Air. The recipe used to call for Cold Air and Filtration Media but was changed to Cold Air and Biofilm. Biofilm cannot be made because it requires Rayon, which needs Fiber which is made in the Centrifuge.

I have looked for other methods to get the HE4 including the Particle Accelerator which can make it if you have a Proton Donor, which of course is made with Rayon. I don't see anything else in the early chain that will yield the early HE4.

Have I identified a deadlock or am I missing a critical research path?


Good point, i will check it out asap!!
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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by pyanodon » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:52 pm

New version ready..please, download the newest version. Check changelog for info
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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by Ronin » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:37 pm

pyanodon wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:52 pm
New version ready..please, download the newest version. Check changelog for info
Deadlock has been removed! Thank you for the quick turnaround!

If you get to feeling bored, I have one more request. It is a new building type for a Barreling Facility. When I was playing the mods with Bob's, he had a 2x2 pump that would fill the barrels. It still required the inserters and chests for the empty and filled barrels. What I would like to see is an "all in one" solution that could be dropped onto any liquid or gas aperture. It would be a combination of the pump, requester chest, and active/passive provider chest based on empty/fill respective with configurable inventory limits. Once you select the function of either fill or empty a barrel type, it would request and send the appropriate items through the logistics system. Part of the headache could also be removed by eliminating the need for empty barrels which would change the function to requester or provider with the barreling facilities creating or consuming the empties at will which would ease the burden on an already overtaxed logistics system.

Once again, thank you for the quick turn around and support. Loving the old and new pY mods.

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by immortal_sniper1 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:58 pm

pyanodon wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:52 pm
New version ready..please, download the newest version. Check changelog for info
what changelog?

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by kingarthur » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:02 pm

immortal_sniper1 wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:58 pm
pyanodon wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:52 pm
New version ready..please, download the newest version. Check changelog for info
what changelog?
First page

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by politehnik » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:29 pm

hi and thank you for great mods!
There are some things I found strange.
*Warning* here goes wall of text (sorry for my bad English)
1) How does metal grades work? Some metals become better with grades, some not. Here's amount of plates I can get from metals of different grades, assuming that I have all the technologies but refuse to use metals of higher grades:
Lead:___raw- 0.15 pl.| Grade1- 2 pl.| Grade2- 1 pl.| Grade3- 1 pl.
Iron:____raw- 0.1 pl.| Grade1- 3 pl.| Grade2- 3 pl.| Grade3- 3 pl.
Copper:_raw- 0.1 pl.| Grade1- 0 pl.| Grade2- 2 pl.| Grade3- 0.25 pl.| Grade4- 8.33 pl.
Nickel:__raw- 0.15 pl.| Grade1- 0.4 pl.| Grade2- 0 pl.| Grade3- 3 pl.| Grade4- 15pl.*

2) Some metal processing researches does not give any reasonable profit. Here's amount of plates per ore for lead, that you can get using all the technologies of "lead processing..." research: lp00- 0.15* pl/ore; lp01- 0.4 pl/ore; lp02- 0.5 pl/ore; lp03- 0.55 pl/ore; lp04-0.575 pl/ore. (if I miscalculated something, I'm sorry :D )
Going all the way from "lg03" to "lg04" technologies results only in 0.025 lead plates per ore (only 1 plate profit from 40 ore pieces).
Something similar happens with nickel (unfortunately I didn't test all other metals yet).
It's somehow realistic, but is not optimal in game point of view. There is no point in making all this beautiful machines and technological schemes as of right now. I think it would be better to buff mid and high grade technologies (at least for lead and nickel). Maybe change it to make more profit with better grades? (lead for example: lp00- 0.15* pl/ore; lp01- 0.2 pl/ore; lp02- 0.3 pl/ore; lp03- 0.45 pl/ore; lp04-0.65 pl/ore)

3) Looks like this charts are outdated: viewtopic.php?f=219&t=61835

PS all calculations were carried out using only full PyMods pack and FNEI.

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by immortal_sniper1 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:29 pm

politehnik wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:29 pm
hi and thank you for great mods!
There are some things I found strange.
*Warning* here goes wall of text (sorry for my bad English)
1) How does metal grades work? Some metals become better with grades, some not. Here's amount of plates I can get from metals of different grades, assuming that I have all the technologies but refuse to use metals of higher grades:
Lead:___raw- 0.15 pl.| Grade1- 2 pl.| Grade2- 1 pl.| Grade3- 1 pl.
Iron:____raw- 0.1 pl.| Grade1- 3 pl.| Grade2- 3 pl.| Grade3- 3 pl.
Copper:_raw- 0.1 pl.| Grade1- 0 pl.| Grade2- 2 pl.| Grade3- 0.25 pl.| Grade4- 8.33 pl.
Nickel:__raw- 0.15 pl.| Grade1- 0.4 pl.| Grade2- 0 pl.| Grade3- 3 pl.| Grade4- 15pl.*

2) Some metal processing researches does not give any reasonable profit. Here's amount of plates per ore for lead, that you can get using all the technologies of "lead processing..." research: lp00- 0.15* pl/ore; lp01- 0.4 pl/ore; lp02- 0.5 pl/ore; lp03- 0.55 pl/ore; lp04-0.575 pl/ore. (if I miscalculated something, I'm sorry :D )
Going all the way from "lg03" to "lg04" technologies results only in 0.025 lead plates per ore (only 1 plate profit from 40 ore pieces).
Something similar happens with nickel (unfortunately I didn't test all other metals yet).
It's somehow realistic, but is not optimal in game point of view. There is no point in making all this beautiful machines and technological schemes as of right now. I think it would be better to buff mid and high grade technologies (at least for lead and nickel). Maybe change it to make more profit with better grades? (lead for example: lp00- 0.15* pl/ore; lp01- 0.2 pl/ore; lp02- 0.3 pl/ore; lp03- 0.45 pl/ore; lp04-0.65 pl/ore)

3) Looks like this charts are outdated: viewtopic.php?f=219&t=61835

PS all calculations were carried out using only full PyMods pack and FNEI.
first lead chain and chrome are exceptions since at high tier you get 2 metals so at low mied you get just one

make math based on 100 input pls or 120 ( 3 blue belts since decimals are hard to follow)
i have been helping py balance chains but process is slow and we didnt do those chais yet
also for some products both direct smelting and melting is available and not sometimes one is better the the other
and yes i also did similar math and found some problems

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by Schattenlord » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:39 am

Hello Pyanodon, I tried to improve my power production with solar panels and discovered that I can't produce Pyrite. The technology chain said it was unlocked with Raw Coal 01 but I can't find it in the crafting menu. Did I miss something?

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by immortal_sniper1 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:58 am

Schattenlord wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:39 am
Hello Pyanodon, I tried to improve my power production with solar panels and discovered that I can't produce Pyrite. The technology chain said it was unlocked with Raw Coal 01 but I can't find it in the crafting menu. Did I miss something?
yes you can its made from sulfur and iron /iron oxide one of those 2 and another 2 ways
some recipes are only available on crafting machines

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by Schattenlord » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:54 am

immortal_sniper1 wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:58 am
Schattenlord wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:39 am
Hello Pyanodon, I tried to improve my power production with solar panels and discovered that I can't produce Pyrite. The technology chain said it was unlocked with Raw Coal 01 but I can't find it in the crafting menu. Did I miss something?
yes you can its made from sulfur and iron /iron oxide one of those 2 and another 2 ways
some recipes are only available on crafting machines
thank you very much for the quick reply. I was aware of this way but I can't find out in which maschine I can produce it. Usually it is displayed in the crafting menu with a symbol of the required building/s. (for example all the oil processing stuff is there as well and it says that you need a chemical plant or oil refinery) but I can't find the one for Pyrite.

It also looks like that I have the same problem with the Centrifugal Pan. I have unlocked the technology (now mining maschines 02 after the update) but it isn't in the crafting menu. Any suggestion what it can be?

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by immortal_sniper1 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:35 am

Schattenlord wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:54 am
immortal_sniper1 wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:58 am
Schattenlord wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:39 am
Hello Pyanodon, I tried to improve my power production with solar panels and discovered that I can't produce Pyrite. The technology chain said it was unlocked with Raw Coal 01 but I can't find it in the crafting menu. Did I miss something?
yes you can its made from sulfur and iron /iron oxide one of those 2 and another 2 ways
some recipes are only available on crafting machines
thank you very much for the quick reply. I was aware of this way but I can't find out in which maschine I can produce it. Usually it is displayed in the crafting menu with a symbol of the required building/s. (for example all the oil processing stuff is there as well and it says that you need a chemical plant or oil refinery) but I can't find the one for Pyrite.

It also looks like that I have the same problem with the Centrifugal Pan. I have unlocked the technology (now mining maschines 02 after the update) but it isn't in the crafting menu. Any suggestion what it can be?
building for the 2 that produce mainly pyrite is high presure furnace ( tech coal1 ; mining maschines 3)
regarding the pan dont you need some coal tech ?
use FNEI mod to see what is made where and from what

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by Schattenlord » Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:20 pm

immortal_sniper1 wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:35 am
Schattenlord wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:54 am
immortal_sniper1 wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:58 am
Schattenlord wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:39 am
Hello Pyanodon, I tried to improve my power production with solar panels and discovered that I can't produce Pyrite. The technology chain said it was unlocked with Raw Coal 01 but I can't find it in the crafting menu. Did I miss something?
yes you can its made from sulfur and iron /iron oxide one of those 2 and another 2 ways
some recipes are only available on crafting machines
thank you very much for the quick reply. I was aware of this way but I can't find out in which maschine I can produce it. Usually it is displayed in the crafting menu with a symbol of the required building/s. (for example all the oil processing stuff is there as well and it says that you need a chemical plant or oil refinery) but I can't find the one for Pyrite.

It also looks like that I have the same problem with the Centrifugal Pan. I have unlocked the technology (now mining maschines 02 after the update) but it isn't in the crafting menu. Any suggestion what it can be?
building for the 2 that produce mainly pyrite is high presure furnace ( tech coal1 ; mining maschines 3)
regarding the pan dont you need some coal tech ?
use FNEI mod to see what is made where and from what
I am using Recipe Explorer Mod to see the what is produced where.

I checked my tech tree and Coal1 and mining maschines 3 are done. The basic Pyrite (3 iron oxid + 3 sulfur) doesn't show up in the high pressure furnace but the one for phosphoros pentasulfide where Pyrite is a by product is available. I also noticed that my game crashes when I use the Recipe Explorer to find the recipe for Pyrite.

Error Code:
Error while running event RecExplo::on_gui_elem_changed (ID 67)
Gui element with name ingredient_table_thickened-coal-fines already present in the parent element.
stack traceback:
__RecExplo__/lua/explo_gui.lua:556: in function 'draw_ingredient'
__RecExplo__/lua/explo_gui.lua:528: in function 'draw_recipe'
__RecExplo__/lua/explo_gui.lua:396: in function 'create_all_recipes'
__RecExplo__/lua/explo_gui.lua:369: in function 'create_all_recipes_container'
__RecExplo__/lua/explo_gui.lua:347: in function 'create_results'
__RecExplo__/lua/explo_gui.lua:342: in function 'update_results'
__RecExplo__/lua/explo_gui.lua:69: in function 'update'
__RecExplo__/lua/events.lua:237: in function <__RecExplo__/lua/events.lua:226>

This looks for me like an ID conflict but I don't know enough about modding. The reason for this error could also be responsible for the invisibilty of the basic Pyrite recipe.

In relation to the Centrifugal Pan, I checked the tech chain (it is unlocked with mining machines 02 - which is done) and the Recipe Explorer says I can craft it by hand or in any assembling maschine but it doesn't exist. (searched the crafting menu and assembly maschine crafting options)

Has someone else the same problem?

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by aklesey1 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:37 pm

My suggestion about salt production
Salt evaporation from 200 common water with 50% chance
PY salt_cmn_water.png
PY salt_cmn_water.png (170.95 KiB) Viewed 346 times
Of course may be to keep balance in PY mods that chance can be like 25% not 50%
But its more or less stable method to get salt
Just i'll say again - its too hard to get niobium plates - 1 niobium plates requires 10 salt
Super steel and stainless steel requires niobium plates
Niobium plates and its niobium pipes are also used in many hi-tech buildings
Fuel rods MK01 requires niobium plates
And fuel rods MK01 are used in specific range of recipes like super alloy, for glass production, for silver plates, for NdFeB alloy, for control units which are used for many Super-Mines
And of course fuel rod MK01 is excellent fuel for boilers, for furnaces which requires fuel to work ;)

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by pyanodon » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:39 pm

aklesey1 wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:37 pm
My suggestion about salt production
Salt evaporation from 200 common water with 50% chance
PY salt_cmn_water.png
Of course may be to keep balance in PY mods that chance can be like 25% not 50%
But its more or less stable method to get salt
Just i'll say again - its too hard to get niobium plates - 1 niobium plates requires 10 salt
Super steel and stainless steel requires niobium plates
Niobium plates and its niobium pipes are also used in many hi-tech buildings
Fuel rods MK01 requires niobium plates
And fuel rods MK01 are used in specific range of recipes like super alloy, for glass production, for silver plates, for NdFeB alloy, for control units which are used for many Super-Mines
And of course fuel rod MK01 is excellent fuel for boilers, for furnaces which requires fuel to work ;)

good! i will think about it :)
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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by aklesey1 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:46 pm

pyanodon wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:39 pm
aklesey1 wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:37 pm
My suggestion about salt production
Salt evaporation from 200 common water with 50% chance
PY salt_cmn_water.png
Of course may be to keep balance in PY mods that chance can be like 25% not 50%
But its more or less stable method to get salt
Just i'll say again - its too hard to get niobium plates - 1 niobium plates requires 10 salt
Super steel and stainless steel requires niobium plates
Niobium plates and its niobium pipes are also used in many hi-tech buildings
Fuel rods MK01 requires niobium plates
And fuel rods MK01 are used in specific range of recipes like super alloy, for glass production, for silver plates, for NdFeB alloy, for control units which are used for many Super-Mines
And of course fuel rod MK01 is excellent fuel for boilers, for furnaces which requires fuel to work ;)
good! i will think about it :)
Thank u for agreeing with me :)
In bob's mods we could get 1 salt from 25 common water with 100% chance - here's variation of salt getting for py mods

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by immortal_sniper1 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:11 pm

aklesey1 wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:37 pm
My suggestion about salt production
Salt evaporation from 200 common water with 50% chance
PY salt_cmn_water.png
Of course may be to keep balance in PY mods that chance can be like 25% not 50%
But its more or less stable method to get salt
Just i'll say again - its too hard to get niobium plates - 1 niobium plates requires 10 salt
Super steel and stainless steel requires niobium plates
Niobium plates and its niobium pipes are also used in many hi-tech buildings
Fuel rods MK01 requires niobium plates
And fuel rods MK01 are used in specific range of recipes like super alloy, for glass production, for silver plates, for NdFeB alloy, for control units which are used for many Super-Mines
And of course fuel rod MK01 is excellent fuel for boilers, for furnaces which requires fuel to work ;)
why not mine the salt in the first place?
the saline water build is a continuous pasive production process

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by politehnik » Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:22 am

immortal_sniper1 wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:29 pm
politehnik wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:29 pm
hi and thank you for great mods!
There are some things I found strange.
*Warning* here goes wall of text (sorry for my bad English)
1) How does metal grades work? Some metals become better with grades, some not. Here's amount of plates I can get from metals of different grades, assuming that I have all the technologies but refuse to use metals of higher grades:
Lead:___raw- 0.15 pl.| Grade1- 2 pl.| Grade2- 1 pl.| Grade3- 1 pl.
Iron:____raw- 0.1 pl.| Grade1- 3 pl.| Grade2- 3 pl.| Grade3- 3 pl.
Copper:_raw- 0.1 pl.| Grade1- 0 pl.| Grade2- 2 pl.| Grade3- 0.25 pl.| Grade4- 8.33 pl.
Nickel:__raw- 0.15 pl.| Grade1- 0.4 pl.| Grade2- 0 pl.| Grade3- 3 pl.| Grade4- 15pl.*

2) Some metal processing researches does not give any reasonable profit. Here's amount of plates per ore for lead, that you can get using all the technologies of "lead processing..." research: lp00- 0.15* pl/ore; lp01- 0.4 pl/ore; lp02- 0.5 pl/ore; lp03- 0.55 pl/ore; lp04-0.575 pl/ore. (if I miscalculated something, I'm sorry :D )
Going all the way from "lg03" to "lg04" technologies results only in 0.025 lead plates per ore (only 1 plate profit from 40 ore pieces).
Something similar happens with nickel (unfortunately I didn't test all other metals yet).
It's somehow realistic, but is not optimal in game point of view. There is no point in making all this beautiful machines and technological schemes as of right now. I think it would be better to buff mid and high grade technologies (at least for lead and nickel). Maybe change it to make more profit with better grades? (lead for example: lp00- 0.15* pl/ore; lp01- 0.2 pl/ore; lp02- 0.3 pl/ore; lp03- 0.45 pl/ore; lp04-0.65 pl/ore)

3) Looks like this charts are outdated: viewtopic.php?f=219&t=61835

PS all calculations were carried out using only full PyMods pack and FNEI.
first lead chain and chrome are exceptions since at high tier you get 2 metals so at low mied you get just one

make math based on 100 input pls or 120 ( 3 blue belts since decimals are hard to follow)
i have been helping py balance chains but process is slow and we didnt do those chais yet
also for some products both direct smelting and melting is available and not sometimes one is better the the other
and yes i also did similar math and found some problems
I'm planning to make table of plate production for all metals where I would point all things I think could be improved. It will show all semi-products and how many plates you can make on each level of ore processing at max using 500 ores. Right now iron, copper and tin are done. However it takes time, so I want to ask - would this tables be of use for you? If so - I'll gladly share it when it is done.

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by immortal_sniper1 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:39 am

politehnik wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:22 am
immortal_sniper1 wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:29 pm
politehnik wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:29 pm
hi and thank you for great mods!
There are some things I found strange.
*Warning* here goes wall of text (sorry for my bad English)
1) How does metal grades work? Some metals become better with grades, some not. Here's amount of plates I can get from metals of different grades, assuming that I have all the technologies but refuse to use metals of higher grades:
Lead:___raw- 0.15 pl.| Grade1- 2 pl.| Grade2- 1 pl.| Grade3- 1 pl.
Iron:____raw- 0.1 pl.| Grade1- 3 pl.| Grade2- 3 pl.| Grade3- 3 pl.
Copper:_raw- 0.1 pl.| Grade1- 0 pl.| Grade2- 2 pl.| Grade3- 0.25 pl.| Grade4- 8.33 pl.
Nickel:__raw- 0.15 pl.| Grade1- 0.4 pl.| Grade2- 0 pl.| Grade3- 3 pl.| Grade4- 15pl.*

2) Some metal processing researches does not give any reasonable profit. Here's amount of plates per ore for lead, that you can get using all the technologies of "lead processing..." research: lp00- 0.15* pl/ore; lp01- 0.4 pl/ore; lp02- 0.5 pl/ore; lp03- 0.55 pl/ore; lp04-0.575 pl/ore. (if I miscalculated something, I'm sorry :D )
Going all the way from "lg03" to "lg04" technologies results only in 0.025 lead plates per ore (only 1 plate profit from 40 ore pieces).
Something similar happens with nickel (unfortunately I didn't test all other metals yet).
It's somehow realistic, but is not optimal in game point of view. There is no point in making all this beautiful machines and technological schemes as of right now. I think it would be better to buff mid and high grade technologies (at least for lead and nickel). Maybe change it to make more profit with better grades? (lead for example: lp00- 0.15* pl/ore; lp01- 0.2 pl/ore; lp02- 0.3 pl/ore; lp03- 0.45 pl/ore; lp04-0.65 pl/ore)

3) Looks like this charts are outdated: viewtopic.php?f=219&t=61835

PS all calculations were carried out using only full PyMods pack and FNEI.
first lead chain and chrome are exceptions since at high tier you get 2 metals so at low mied you get just one

make math based on 100 input pls or 120 ( 3 blue belts since decimals are hard to follow)
i have been helping py balance chains but process is slow and we didnt do those chais yet
also for some products both direct smelting and melting is available and not sometimes one is better the the other
and yes i also did similar math and found some problems
I'm planning to make table of plate production for all metals where I would point all things I think could be improved. It will show all semi-products and how many plates you can make on each level of ore processing at max using 500 ores. Right now iron, copper and tin are done. However it takes time, so I want to ask - would this tables be of use for you? If so - I'll gladly share it when it is done.
we actualy balance stuff that way we make a table graph and calculate
also tell me what do you think about the nexelite and tin , zinc chains balance since they were rebalanced recently
also keep in mind that chrome also produces gold and lead also produces silver

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by pyanodon » Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:59 am

yes...we did recently a balance on nexelit, zinc and tin. :) I think iron and copper are ok. Coal are out since its just beneficiation.
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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by SuperSandro2000 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:09 pm

Salt concentration would be more constant than vary. If we have a salt concentration of 3% we would get around 300 mg per Liter. 1000 water are one liter and I assume one piece of salt is 100 mg then we should get exactly one salt from 300 water.

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