pY Raw Ores Discussion

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by pyanodon » Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:34 am

WispyFX wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:40 am
I downloaded the full suite including the raw ores, and the pycoal module didnt load due to not registering bauxite? bauxite-mining-recipe
NOT COMPATIBLE WITH BOBS
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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by pyanodon » Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:36 am

npuldon wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:26 am
Py, what should be the starting resources for RSO when you the Raw Ores mod? Same as PyHighTech and Coal Processing or something else?
i guess its the classic ones (iron, copper, coal,stone) plus aluminium, titanium, tin and lead.
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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by pyanodon » Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:37 am

minno wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:09 am
Another recipe that doesn't have any buildings that can make it: Titanium Pulp 02, near the bottom of the Py Raw Ores section. I think it's because it has 2 fluid outputs but the grease table only has 1 fluid output.
that will be checked and fixed.
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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by pyanodon » Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:39 am

Raphaello wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:27 am
Congrats on the release!!! Thanks a lot for all the hard work to both of you :!:

small note: pyIndustry has optional dependency on bobs library. I guess this is no longer needed and can be removed.

EDIT: I have all the classic ores (iron, copper, stone, coal, uranium, lead, nickel, titatnium,etc) available on screen when starting new game with pyMods. I though that only your new ores would be generated but maybe I was wrong.

Also, starting area is very inconsistent - getting a start with water, iron, coal, copper, tin and lead (I assume these are basics) requires re-rolling. Getting consistent starting is a must for new players of the mods - I would not want to run between resources too much.
Thank you! It is inconsistent for a reason. That way you will need to invest more deeper in a chain of a specific resource than others depending of how available they are near you. Maybe is better invest in a big chain in a near ore than lots of trains.
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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by ulmennaleith » Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:59 am

Thanks for the amazing work, masters py and Nexela :D

Quick question,

I'm new to py mods. I started a pY game (before pyRo's release, and with AAI industry) and I'm only at green science. I'm not new to factorio (I made a 2.4kspm belt-trains megabase). However, I decided to play without pY High Tech for my first pY game considering it's known to be very hard (and some people say it's not balanced yet, don't know about that).

Does pyRo make pY High Tech more manageable ? Would you recommend me to go first finish a game without it, or go straight with the full suite ?

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by pyanodon » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:04 am

ulmennaleith wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:59 am
Thanks for the amazing work, masters py and Nexela :D

Quick question,

I'm new to py mods. I started a pY game (before pyRo's release, and with AAI industry) and I'm only at green science. I'm not new to factorio (I made a 2.4kspm belt-trains megabase). However, I decided to play without pY High Tech for my first pY game considering it's known to be very hard (and some people say it's not balanced yet, don't know about that).

Does pyRo make pY High Tech more manageable ? Would you recommend me to go first finish a game without it, or go straight with the full suite ?

Hi! Welcome! hehhe. pyHT is a matter of love/hate and there´s nothing we can do to please everyone. It IS hard, pyRO may help it a bit, but since you said you´re starting, we reccomend to leave pyHT out until you get used to the level of complexity pymods have.
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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by aklesey1 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:08 am

kingarthur wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:55 am
Mella wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:46 am
Set of mods https://yadi.sk/i/Sqebzz34vlNBbA
Error when launch with bob's mods https://yadi.sk/i/gzv3S58FruEYlQ
I tried to toggle off only bob's ores but error still appears
doesn't work with bobs right now. im working on the compatibility but its not done yet. compatibility still needs updated to account for all of the new changes.
Looks like that for now its conflicting this bob's library mod, and not conflicting with bob's ores mod (bob's ores is loading but not working)

And i have question for pyanodon - there're 2 types of coal deposits - vanilla coal deposit and raw coal deposit - i can check it when using creative mode and using magic want tool - i thought vanilla coal must be rewrited

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by ulmennaleith » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:17 am

Ok, thanks for the quick reply !

And yes, vanilla coal is still here (vanilla coal [py raw coal] mining hardness 0.9 [1], mining time 2 [1])

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by aklesey1 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:33 am

I must say i have some problems with lead deposites findiong - they are too rare and small
Since there have been changes in the recipe of solder lead has become more demanded

Orzelek must update RSO mod too and i want to ask him to make lead deposites a little bit more widespread or at least increase its spawn area
Last edited by aklesey1 on Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by aklesey1 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:44 am

Looks like i found deadlock (playing with no bob's mods bcuz can't be possible for now)
1) Terephthaloyl chloride requires liquid nitrogen
2) Terephthaloyl chloride need for kevlar
3) Kevlar needs for optical fiber for science pack 3
4) Recipe for liquid nitrogen can be opened with science pack 3
5) Recipe for gasoline can be opened with science pack 3 too
There're no another recipe for Terephthaloyl chloride or for optical fiber
And another big thanks for using nichrome in this recipe - I still can not think of where to put nichrome :P which I could not produce with great efficiency before- was some problems with nickel smelting (with bob's mods of course)- nichrome becomes more and more popular

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by ulmennaleith » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:59 am

I think you can get liquid nitrogen with red & green, no ? Liquid nitrogen is unlocked with mining machines 02 tech, and nitrogen (filtration media + purest nitrogen gas recipe) is unlocked with filtration tech.

However gasoline seems to be a real deadlock (unlocked with red+green+blue tech "fuel production")

edit :
I'm lost now. It seems nitrogen is needed (as an ingredient) for both of its recipes, because it's needed for activated carbon
Last edited by ulmennaleith on Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by orzelek » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:02 am

aklesey1 wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:33 am
I must say i have some problems with lead deposites findiong - they are too rare and small
Since there have been changes in the recipe of solder lead has become more demanded

Orzewlek must update RSO mod too and i want to ask him to make lead deposites a little bit more widespread or at least increase its spawn area
Since it has been asked already - I will need help from Py to add support for this mod to RSO.
Py set is pretty big and complex and there needs to be some ore balancing to make it work I guess. And with a lot of ores it's a lot of guessing for me to prepare the config file myself.

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by aklesey1 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:11 am

ulmennaleith wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:59 am
I think you can get liquid nitrogen with red & green, no ? Liquid nitrogen is unlocked with mining machines 02 tech, and nitrogen (filtration media + purest nitrogen gas recipe) is unlocked with filtration tech.

However gasoline seems to be a real deadlock (unlocked with red+green+blue tech "fuel production")

edit :
I'm lost now. It seems nitrogen is needed (as an ingredient) for both of its recipes, because it's needed for activated carbon
Okey i can open recipe for liquid nitrogen dude but i can't get gasoline that's serious problem for now
Sorry for the typo with ur nickname orzelek, I'll wait for the update of ur mod at least to spawn ore was correct and didn't issue warning messages on start
Last edited by aklesey1 on Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by nagapito » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:24 am

pyanodon wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:32 am
nagapito wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:32 am
pyanodon wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:57 pm
Dont run with Bobs. Running it with angels may cause bugs or incompatibilities. Merry Christmas!
Would be interesting if, isntead of checking for boblibrary mod, you actually checked for his individual mods and applied the changes required for each mod.

This way, we could replace bob plates and bob ores with PyRO and still have almost all Bob Suit with is advanced items while playing with the full Py suit mods

yeah..but we wont do that. waay too much work to keep updated with any change bobs may do and adapt more than 1k recipes with all pymods together. Also, retundancy...bobs have his own chains and have two or more chains for the same ore will only make the whole pyRO concept useless.
So far we have 3 possible scenarios:

1 - Full integration with bob's
2 - Partial integration with some of bob's mods
3 - No integration at all with bob's mods

Option 1, I wasn't expecting it. It would be a nightmare. Too many conflicting stuff to change, would mostly be disabling bob's stuff and only integrating some parts of Bob's, resulting in option 2 with a lot of work

Option 2, what I was suggesting, would be dropping support for full bob's suit, that is ignoring bob's ores, bob's plates and keeping only some light integration with some of his changes, like making sure rocket components respected bob's and Py changes, change recipe A if mod X is present and recipe B if mod Y is present instead of the current try change all recipes if mod Library is present. This way, we could have the best of both worlds. It would be players responsibility to not had bob's ores or bob's plates.... You dont seem to interested in this, I understand and respect which leaves us with...

Option 3, just completely remove your bob's detection system so we, players, can had mods like bob's logistics, bob's power, etc... and other bob's mods at our own risk... This one is pretty easy to do since you just need to comment 4 lines where you check if bob's library is present and load your changes.
Currently, since the mods are not even loading with bob's and you dont plan to fix the support, might as well just remove these integrations and at least allow players to add some of the bob's mods that do work fine. And if someone adds a bob mod that causes recipe conflicts or other issues, you can always keep replying Py does not support Bob's anymore!

ps: Do not forget that all of Bob's mods only have one hard dependency, Bob's library. All his mods are prepared to work without the rest of the suit, just as if they were played in vanilla. Makes them simpler without ores and plates, yes but they still work.
Also, his mods integrations are dependent on the rest of his mods being present but instead on the resources being present. So, if a mod creates the same item with the same name convention, like for example "titanium-pipe" name, is tier 3 chemical plant will still use that mod titanium pipe instead of normal pipe even if the rest of his mods are not present!

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by aklesey1 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:43 am

Strange in terephthaloyl chloride recipe
600 liquid nitrogen + 100 aromatics + 2 nichrome gives only 50 terephthaloyl chloride
For example super conducting magnetic unit requires only 100 liquid nitrogen but for making super conducting magnetic unit we need deposited vanadium core which requires magnetic core whicj requires kevlar :!: And kevlar cost is 10 :!: Bravo! :mrgreen:

SO PYANODON WANTS TO SAY I NEED 120 CYCLES WITH 5 NITROGREN GETTING - SO I'LL NEED 750 GASOLINE - SO ITS 5 CYCLES WITH 10 NEXELIT PLATES + 1500 OLFINS + 1000 LIGHT OIL + 250 HYDROGEN :?:
Awesome - so its only 5 kevlar at last and only 15 optical fiber - okey so optical giber production wil be too costly, and looked for kevlar usage in another recipes in PYRO and i must say kevlar will be very very polular for new hi-tech machines
Do u remember people that raw material costs 10 times more than the output of the final product in liquid nitrogen recipe - 50 nitrogen and only 5 liquid nitrogen? :?:
I suggest to change recipe to:
60 liquid nitrogen + 100 aromatics giives + 2 nichrome = 50 terephthaloyl chloride ;)
Or we need another source of liquid nitrogen where not so many possibilities for it without some kind of magic :D :D :D

Ah yes anthraquinone cost 600 liquid nitroigen too
600 liquid nitrogen + 100 aromatics + 2 chromium = 50 anthraquinone :D

That's badass, that's funny, that's amazing i can't stop laughing
Oh my lovely PY mods its serious challenge ;)

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by pyanodon » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:59 am

ulmennaleith wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:17 am
Ok, thanks for the quick reply !

And yes, vanilla coal is still here (vanilla coal [py raw coal] mining hardness 0.9 [1], mining time 2 [1])
Yes...buts its the only one that can bring way more coal than the vanilla one.
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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by pyanodon » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:01 pm

aklesey1 wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:33 am
I must say i have some problems with lead deposites findiong - they are too rare and small
Since there have been changes in the recipe of solder lead has become more demanded

Orzelek must update RSO mod too and i want to ask him to make lead deposites a little bit more widespread or at least increase its spawn area
Im my map lead is full and plenty.
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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by pyanodon » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:03 pm

orzelek wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:02 am
Since it has been asked already - I will need help from Py to add support for this mod to RSO.
Py set is pretty big and complex and there needs to be some ore balancing to make it work I guess. And with a lot of ores it's a lot of guessing for me to prepare the config file myself.
Whenever you want, i can provide you some info to help you out.
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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by aklesey1 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:06 pm

I'm sorry for the tons of text that might offend u pynodon but what is the guilt of molybdenum plate which is requires for aramid which is requires for silicon wafer which is requires for our lovely electronic circuits which is requires for our lovely science packs? :?:

And question for PPD recipe
500 chlorine + 50 nitrobenzene + 500 ammonia = 10 ppd
U sure there're no errors?
Its not:
50 chlorine + 50 nitrobenzene + 50 ammonia = 10 ppd ? Its not right recipe?
Last edited by aklesey1 on Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by pyanodon » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:09 pm

nagapito wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:24 am
So far we have 3 possible scenarios:

1 - Full integration with bob's
2 - Partial integration with some of bob's mods
3 - No integration at all with bob's mods

Option 1, I wasn't expecting it. It would be a nightmare. Too many conflicting stuff to change, would mostly be disabling bob's stuff and only integrating some parts of Bob's, resulting in option 2 with a lot of work

Option 2, what I was suggesting, would be dropping support for full bob's suit, that is ignoring bob's ores, bob's plates and keeping only some light integration with some of his changes, like making sure rocket components respected bob's and Py changes, change recipe A if mod X is present and recipe B if mod Y is present instead of the current try change all recipes if mod Library is present. This way, we could have the best of both worlds. It would be players responsibility to not had bob's ores or bob's plates.... You dont seem to interested in this, I understand and respect which leaves us with...

Option 3, just completely remove your bob's detection system so we, players, can had mods like bob's logistics, bob's power, etc... and other bob's mods at our own risk... This one is pretty easy to do since you just need to comment 4 lines where you check if bob's library is present and load your changes.
Currently, since the mods are not even loading with bob's and you dont plan to fix the support, might as well just remove these integrations and at least allow players to add some of the bob's mods that do work fine. And if someone adds a bob mod that causes recipe conflicts or other issues, you can always keep replying Py does not support Bob's anymore!

ps: Do not forget that all of Bob's mods only have one hard dependency, Bob's library. All his mods are prepared to work without the rest of the suit, just as if they were played in vanilla. Makes them simpler without ores and plates, yes but they still work.
Also, his mods integrations are dependent on the rest of his mods being present but instead on the resources being present. So, if a mod creates the same item with the same name convention, like for example "titanium-pipe" name, is tier 3 chemical plant will still use that mod titanium pipe instead of normal pipe even if the rest of his mods are not present!
Did you updated all pymods? Because bobs isnt requested in any of them now.
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