pY Raw Ores Discussion

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Monara
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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by Monara » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:46 am

Are there high res versions of the organization charts? The ones in they stickied thread at the top are blurry and unreadable.

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by otakushowboat » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:51 pm

Monara wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:46 am
Are there high res versions of the organization charts? The ones in they stickied thread at the top are blurry and unreadable.
If you're referring to the imgur gallery, you should be able to just click on an image to get a larger version of it or right-click and open in new tab/window for the full-size version.

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by Anon2k » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:52 pm

Smelting through "Reduced Nexelit" is pointless,

Image

much more profitable and easier to melt through "High grade Nexelit"

Image

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by Blokus » Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:48 pm

Anon2k wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:52 pm
Smelting through "Reduced Nexelit" is pointless,

Image

much more profitable and easier to melt through "High grade Nexelit"

Image
There are several places where the only reason to make "Reduced X" is to pass it through the next step which makes "Sintered X". This is the case for nexelit, 4.45 high grade passed up to sintering makes 100 molten, while 5.89 high grade melted as is makes 100 molten. (Whether you want to spend the extra side inputs for this is debatable.)

Not saying this is good design (personally I'd say the recipe should either be better than its predecessor on a per-ore basis or just not exist), but that's how it is in a lot of places in RO.

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by Anon2k » Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:53 pm

Blokus wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:48 pm
There are several places where the only reason to make "Reduced X" is to pass it through the next step which makes "Sintered X". This is the case for nexelit, 4.45 high grade passed up to sintering makes 100 molten, while 5.89 high grade melted as is makes 100 molten. (Whether you want to spend the extra side inputs for this is debatable.)

Not saying this is good design (personally I'd say the recipe should either be better than its predecessor on a per-ore basis or just not exist), but that's how it is in a lot of places in RO.
To destroy excess items you have a burner.
And from recipes of a higher level, I expect appropriate effectiveness.

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by Blokus » Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:03 am

Anon2k wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:53 pm
Blokus wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:48 pm
There are several places where the only reason to make "Reduced X" is to pass it through the next step which makes "Sintered X". This is the case for nexelit, 4.45 high grade passed up to sintering makes 100 molten, while 5.89 high grade melted as is makes 100 molten. (Whether you want to spend the extra side inputs for this is debatable.)

Not saying this is good design (personally I'd say the recipe should either be better than its predecessor on a per-ore basis or just not exist), but that's how it is in a lot of places in RO.
To destroy excess items you have a burner.
And from recipes of a higher level, I expect appropriate effectiveness.
Not sure what destroying excess has to do with what I said. Maybe you thought I said side outputs, not side inputs.

And yeah, I get what you mean about higher level recipes. Just saying that this is commonplace in RO so I'm sure Py is already aware of it.

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by Monara » Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:09 pm

otakushowboat wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:51 pm
If you're referring to the imgur gallery, you should be able to just click on an image to get a larger version of it or right-click and open in new tab/window for the full-size version.
That's what I did. It just loads the same image (640 wide) and none of the text is readable.

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by aklesey1 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:34 pm

Bug in recipe for Niobium Titanium alloy from molten tian + niobium complex
100 molten titanium + 40 niobium complex = 15 Niobium Titanium alloy
May be must be 100 molten titanium + 50 niobium complex? bcuz initial recipe requires 10 titanium plates + 5 niobium plates = 2 Niobium titanium alloy
Fix pls :D
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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by pyanodon » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:39 pm

aklesey1 wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:34 pm
Bug in recipe for Niobium Titanium alloy from molten tian + niobium complex
100 molten titanium + 40 niobium complex = 15 Niobium Titanium alloy
May be must be 100 molten titanium + 50 niobium complex? bcuz initial recipe requires 10 titanium plates + 5 niobium plates = 2 Niobium titanium alloy
Fix pls :D
no... not a bug.
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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by aklesey1 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:08 am

Strange decision about recipe with molten versions of titanium and niobium but okey
Recipe for nihrome from molten versions of nickel and chrome looks correct, and here its different
Same with NbFe alloy its looks correct too
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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by Mithaldu » Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:15 pm

The split of the silver-lead concentrate > high grade lead/silver recipe into two new ones had some issues, including a crash-on-load bug. Two commits with fixes are here: https://github.com/pyanodon/pyrawores/pull/12

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by Serega Sunset » Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:21 am

In the initial game, you can't get nickel for t2 science. It is needed for the production of rubber, but it cannot be obtained. In the initial zone, he is not and there is no car or train to effectively look for him

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by Blokus » Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:05 pm

I think you mean chromium, assuming you have PH. And yeah this is annoying but it doesn't make it impossible to progress. If you don't have any railworld type settings then chromium is likely to be close by anyway.

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by Serega Sunset » Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:34 am

Yes chromium. I'm playing with RSO and the nearest field is very far. Will this recipe ever change? Because it's stupid

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by pyanodon » Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:37 am

do better.
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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by Blokus » Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:13 pm

I do think that reaction is a bit much. In vanilla the things excluded from the starting area are crude oil and uranium. You do need oil for blue science, but by that time you can make a car and trains. So you can use a car to scout for oil, and then use a train to ship it back to your base. This means that railworld type settings pretty much just mean that you need to build more trains at a time when you actually can do that. With chromium you don't have this luxury. So instead of just doing better, more likely you're going to just give up or use cheats (like a movespeed multiplier) to help you find it. And if you have aliens around then this moment is particularly problematic.

In any case this is really a PH issue, as in the most likely way to set up a fix for this would be to change the mapgen to put chromium in the start area if PH is enabled. It doesn't particularly need to be there otherwise.

Also, I think one thing that also gets annoying to players with this issue is that it's not that you even need to set up a steady stream of chromium at this stage. You just have to make a handful of bars and then return to what you were doing back at base. So it just feels like this interruption that didn't really need to be there. Somewhat similar annoyances have happened elsewhere: for example you used to just need to make a handful of stainless steel to make gas processing units to set up blue science. But now blue science directly consumes stainless steel, so it feels more like an important item rather than a minor obstacle that you're going to tackle and then forget about for hours.

Anyway, for the meantime my general advice is to just not run railworld type settings. You're gonna want trains anyway, so they're not really doing you any favors.

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by pyanodon » Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:20 pm

we dont have urarium on start area. Generate a map with chromium nearby.

theres a limit if start resources, if you know how to force that limit, im open to it. But if you wanna just endose the "this is stupid" rant, i will keep my decision.
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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by immortal_sniper1 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:49 pm

pyanodon wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:20 pm
we dont have urarium on start area. Generate a map with chromium nearby.

theres a limit if start resources, if you know how to force that limit, im open to it. But if you wanna just endose the "this is stupid" rant, i will keep my decision.
why not add a car and a few repair kits as start items? that would fix the problem for there types of situations.

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by Blokus » Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:17 pm

pyanodon wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:20 pm
we dont have urarium on start area. Generate a map with chromium nearby.

theres a limit if start resources, if you know how to force that limit, im open to it. But if you wanna just endose the "this is stupid" rant, i will keep my decision.
I said uranium was excluded from the start area in vanilla. That and oil are the things that are excluded, and that's OK because you don't need them until after you can already build cars and trains.

Anyway, are you at that cap already? If so, can you post the list of things that are currently in that table? I'm having some trouble figuring out what it is experimentally. But my general impression has been that there are some things that are in the starting area like small oil patches that are less important than chromium (if PH is installed of course).

An alternative is to be more generous with starting items as immortal_sniper suggested above me. Although this isn't a perfect fix in the case of chromium because of the need for syngas and electricity to mine it. This idea could also be used to smooth out the first hour of the game by giving you some miners, furnaces, and maybe some wood. (Chopping hundreds of units of wood by hand before you can build a botanical nursery+wood processing unit is one of the biggest complaints about PyCP.)

And finally the main alternative is to just generate maps using the vanilla generator with normal frequency. When you do that, chromium tends to be close by, in fact it's often within the visible area.

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by BlueTemplar » Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:25 pm

While it's just a workaround, I suggest using AAI Hauler :
it's a cheap Science 1 vehicle without weapons :
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/aai-vehicles-hauler
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