pY Raw Ores Discussion

[host65]

Coal 3 I agree that I will not do for a while. The reason is that all the products before are burnable. So for me they fire a big steam array and coke production next door just adds more fuel to it. That mechanic that you do not want to go solar is great in my opinion. Now I have nuclear running I probably will have to do some circuit stuff to make sure everything is burned properly. A problem that is interesting to solve.

[mxpal]

a comment on Ronin's wall of text:

I dont know how big you like your base to be, but i usually keep things minimal and only build them on demand. So my suggestions may not be applicable to your situation. I have finished a circuit 2 base a while ago at 0.5/s and moving onto production sci packs and building components for big mines



Sulfur/salt issue:

At the early stage, desulfurization is used only due to not having access to oil cracking. and that tiny amount used shouldnt exhaust your salt supply at all. After u get cracking and advanced oil processing, u dont need to waste salt on it anymore. Yes, you get less sulfur from each drop of crude oil,but that can be offset next:

instead of washing stone into saline water directly, try the recipe of turning stone into tar. then turn the tar into saline water. you get double production of saline water using this method (100 saline water/10 stone, or /0.8 iron plate if you use excavator and feed everything back. instead of 50 saline water/10 stone when washed directly). And you get a large amount of tailings from it too, which u can turn it into coal-slurry fuel->benzene and aromatics. burn those benzene for electricity, turn that crap load of aromatics into crude oil, then crack it the vanilla way into sulfur and feed into your FTS sulfuric acid chain. make refined syngas with chromium and petroleum since u have chromium in excess (and u get a little tar back too!), so u dont need to struggle with methanol ingredients. dont evaporate tailings into raw nexelit unless its in excess, its a very inefficient recipe.


Nickel issue:

i agree nichrome is a pain. its used a lot in ferrite and oleochemical (required by several ore processing solutions), so i may give up the higher ore processing chains since my nickel deposits are depleting too quickly.



Tin issue:
never tried the higher tin plate chains yet. I cowered at the sight of all those additional solutions needed and stayed happily to keep smelting tin dust.

[immortal_sniper1]

S: i mine it

methanol <> zinc one requires the other to be made i make it from organic matter but 80% of methanol goes into zinc to pay for itself

lead no problem here atm ( only mining is expensive)

Sodium hydroxide form salt ant 1:1 with my loop so not that bad the other sodium products are annoying to make because the sheer cost

Vanadium- best way to get is is fusion from chrome( that i get lots from tailings)

filtration media biofilm : i avoid useing them as much as possibel unless i know its worth it


Sulfuric acid. i mine S so i need only fe or i get it from acid gas+ petroleum gas

Niobium last step is extremely salt heavy so i make salt localy the nitrogen/solven cost was high too

salt i mine as much as i can from beaconed mines but i get most of it from my direct insertion iron STICK >stone>saline water>salt
someone posted a bettter way with taw as an intermediary and tailings as bonus ill probably make some arrays of thaat )

tailings : i make benzene from them and the rest i dy into raw nexelite and tailings dust or just dust ( i made a direct from train dryer )

Grade 4 tin : no problem since i only use it for tin plate ( after a few steps)

zipir unfrotunetely we need it bet man its slowwwwwww

someone complainded about the lack of FE higher tier buildings:
i say use modules there are lots of slots when py added t4 buildings he removed nearly all module slots and that made fine tuning harder and lockt them behing advanced tech

[aklesey1]

May be its good to suggest to pyanodon to increase ferrite production -8 instead of 4
Many recipes like oleochemicals uses 2 nichrome! Why not 1 nichrome? I can't wait when PY Alien Life Processing will be out and pyanodon wil present to us new 1 or 2 recipes to make oleochemicals
Terephthaloyl chloride requires 2 nichrome, crap why not 1 nichrome?
Purified gold requires 4 nichrome!!! Okey why not 2?
High grade alumina requires 4 nichrome!!! Why not 2 too?

[pyanodon]

i see some of you donr ever care about high tier of ore processing. That because i see a coincidence. If you dont play with RSO, the map will be full if these deposits. Try with RSO and you will start looking different to ore processing

[TwentyEighty]

Hi Pyanodon thanks for your response.

In general, RSO doesn't make a difference. If one ore is scarce, the other ores are probably scarce too and they are used as inputs.

I'll use zinc as an example, since it's super easy to do in helmod. Let's look at the first three levels of zinc in terms of cost per ore saved.

Tier 0, 100 ore and 40.5 MW per 10 plate per second, assuming advanced foundries. In reality you'd use stone furnaces and coal dust for zero MW.

Tier 1, 75 ore, 37.5 iron plates, 54 MW. For each single ore saved compared to tier 0, you spend 1.5 iron plates and .56 MW. For one ore.

Tier 2, 80ore, 40 iron plates, 200 heavy oil, 55.6 MW, 12 limestone, .4 sand casting, .8 borax. For each single ore saved compared to tier 0, you spend 2 iron plates, 10 heavy oil, .75 MW, .6 limestone, .02 sand casting, .04 borax.

Do you see the problem? How many ores does it take to get 2 iron plates? For one ore saved of zinc. Tier 1 and 2 will never be useful. Not to mention the heavy oil etc.

This isn't a problem unique to zinc. Zinc is unique in that even tier 1 is bad, but many chains have the same type of problem for tier 2 and 3. Nickel, lead, titanium, etc

You know what doesn't have this problem? Aluminum and copper. Casting to duralumin is a 400 % increase for aluminum. That's a great benefit. The other metals get like a 25% increase! No thanks

[pyanodon]

well..that´s your way to play. Good thing about factorio is there´s always a different way to do stuff. I always said that since this mod started, if there´s plenty of ore, good. if not, its a good idea invest other resources to get more from it.

[TwentyEighty]

If you don't have plenty of ores you still won't do these chains because you don't have enough iron. You literally need to have over 10 times as many iron patches on your map than zinc and mine them all for these chains to make any sense.

Just my opinion that no player will ever use these chains. Maybe higher tiers will get better, haven't gotten there yet.

IMO two ideas that would help the balance would be 1. to make the "cheaper"ores like iron and copper easier to make. Then the zinc chain wouldn't seem so bad. and 2. Add more alloy casting like how duralumin works. That way, even though the nickel chain is ridiculous you'd still use it to get nichrome more efficiently.

Thanks for your hard work. Love your graphics and ideas

[pyanodon]

thanks for your opinion.

[mxpal]

it seems there is a discrepancy between pyanodon and players. let me elaborate

Assume there are 4 ore patches near me, with 1.0M of ore A, 2.0M of ore B, 3.0M of ore C and 4.0M of ore D
and i consume 100 ore each second. now ore A is going to deplete soon and i want to do something about it. i know each higher tier processing cuts ore consumption by 20% at a cost of 2.5 another ore used per current ore saved


Py suggest: use tier 2 ore A processing which changes to 80 ore A/s and 150 ore B/s used. how about ore B u say? use tier 2 ore B! now u are at 80 ore A, 120 ore B and 175 ore C. make C tier 2 also and u get 80 ore A, 120 ore B, 140 ore C and 187.5 ore D. problem solved! u covered the shortage by utilising other more abundant ores. i dont know why u guys cant understand this simple design


TwentyEighty: look at the ratios. if i used all tier 1, time to depletion is 10000s, 20000s, 30000s and 40000s for the ores respectively. now it becomes 12500s, 16666s, 17142s, 21333s, see the problem? its only creating more shortage after solving the initial shortage



There are few more reasons that makes me stop considering going higher tier. its more about the definition of "fun".

First is the expectation of future demand: i am only in mid game, and i do not know whether ore B will be used a lot in the future, and i definitely dont want build all those infrastructure just to trade one shortage for another. and i am not going to put all production chains in the game into Helmod to find that out. Otherwise i will be playing pymods in Helmod instead of in factorio. no fun in that.

Second is sense of progression. While solving these shortages can be considered progress, its a bit different from progressing through building new production chains for higher circuits; let me make an example. assume i am assembling a model car. putting new pieces in is fun. but instead of that, i am constantly reassembling old pieces because they keep loosening. Put this piece in, and i know another will loosen one day. Why not give that piece up if its not that important? The sight of the car becoming more completed is fun, the sight of the car looking the same after all effort spent on reassembling is not.

Third is the urge to be efficient. i think many people that enjoy factorio share a common satisfaction of efficiency, that is to maximize output while minimizing input. spending heavy effort in progressing up higher tier to earn a huge saving of ore, then full stop, is satisfying. spending effort to earn a huge saving at the cost of another is not. The cost part nullified the joy of the saving part.

thats all i can think of so far. dont get me wrong, i am absolutely enjoying the mod series, and no other mod including A and B can get me this indulged. just trying to contribute to make it even better. thanks py for this fabulous mod, my save is at 200 hours now and keep counting

[TwentyEighty]

thats all i can think of so far. dont get me wrong, i am absolutely enjoying the mod series, and no other mod including A and B can get me this indulged. just trying to contribute to make it even better. thanks py for this fabulous mod, my save is at 200 hours now and keep counting

Yes agree with that, I've played BA before and there's a reason I'm here posting here on the py forum and not the bobs forum

[Dumb1bunny]

For iron I have found that I can get Iron oxide from just about anything. I use this ans tailings dust sorting for all my iron. I even break down copper and the sort the gravel for iron oxide and burn the extra grade 3 copper.

[valerius]

Hi Pyanodon,

Thank you for a great suite of mods.

Enjoying my very slow game towards circuit 2 at the moment, when I found what seems to be a bug:

The fawogae plantations mk2 through 4 does not seem unlockable. I have searched the lua code and could not find the unlock for them.

I assume they should be unlocked together with the rest of the mk2-4 machines.

[pyanodon]

Hi Pyanodon,

Thank you for a great suite of mods.

Enjoying my very slow game towards circuit 2 at the moment, when I found what seems to be a bug:

The fawogae plantations mk2 through 4 does not seem unlockable. I have searched the lua code and could not find the unlock for them.

I assume they should be unlocked together with the rest of the mk2-4 machines.

not.a bug, it isnt supposed to be unlocked. Theres several stuff waiting for happens.

[immortal_sniper1]

Hi Pyanodon,

Thank you for a great suite of mods.

Enjoying my very slow game towards circuit 2 at the moment, when I found what seems to be a bug:

The fawogae plantations mk2 through 4 does not seem unlockable. I have searched the lua code and could not find the unlock for them.

I assume they should be unlocked together with the rest of the mk2-4 machines.

if you want to use them you need creative mode

[valerius]

Hi Pyanodon,

Thank you for a great suite of mods.

Enjoying my very slow game towards circuit 2 at the moment, when I found what seems to be a bug:

The fawogae plantations mk2 through 4 does not seem unlockable. I have searched the lua code and could not find the unlock for them.

I assume they should be unlocked together with the rest of the mk2-4 machines.

not.a bug, it isnt supposed to be unlocked. Theres several stuff waiting for happens.

Alright, guess I'll have to reserve a bit more space for coal production then.

[host65]

I can unlock them via console but only it it was the intention of balancing decisions by pyanodon. As it is clearly not then I will leave them locked and find another way.

Hi Pyanodon,

Thank you for a great suite of mods.

Enjoying my very slow game towards circuit 2 at the moment, when I found what seems to be a bug:

The fawogae plantations mk2 through 4 does not seem unlockable. I have searched the lua code and could not find the unlock for them.

I assume they should be unlocked together with the rest of the mk2-4 machines.

if you want to use them you need creative mode

[host65]

You make coal from that? The raw coal chain is so awesome. I just with RSO would not spawn any regular coal in the way of my factory that i have to mine away first. (not because I need to but because I try not to build on ore)

Alright, guess I'll have to reserve a bit more space for coal production then.

[BlueTemplar]

Had to comment on that :

Yeah, you'd need a 1080ti to run PyMods with Alien Biomes since it would be over 8GB pf VRAM and probably going to need 16GB of RAM too. bit rough for a game like factorio that doesn't have the fancy graphics of other games. The demise of sprites

Well, the early game with Alien Biomes (*and* their HiRez texures!) runs fine with my RX 470 (4 Go of VRAM).
I *did* have to upgrade to 24 GB of RAM earlier to run AngelBob with Alien Biomes (+HiRez) and Rampant...
(pro tip : Win7 Home 64-bit won't let you use more than 16GB of RAM !!)

[BlueTemplar]

You make coal from that? The raw coal chain is so awesome. I just with RSO would not spawn any regular coal in the way of my factory that i have to mine away first. (not because I need to but because I try not to build on ore)

Alright, guess I'll have to reserve a bit more space for coal production then.

Well, in Science 1, Magic Mushrooms to Coke Steam seems to be better than *any* other power generation setup !
(At least, pollution-wise...)