Factorio Forums

Anon2k wrote: ↑

Wed May 29, 2019 8:05 pm

There are closed loops in other modes.
For example, in angelbob mods there are also many closed cycles using catalysts, water, refrigerant in metallurgy or cleaning with distilled water.
And none of these cycles supports productivity modules in order to avoid the loop being closed. And this is a great example of thoughtful design.

The availability of recycling tools does not mean that resources can appear from nothing. Including water.

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All productivity modules need to be removed not only from the compressor, but also from the FTS reactor.

regarding the FTS reactor i think they are enabled just is hellmod and u cant actually put them in the buildings
also there are the famous BOB modules that grant lots of productivity but need to be carefully used in order to fully use them max benefit and they also suck up a ton of power
regarding the perfect closed loop even in IRL ''closed loop systems'' aren't perfect
and there are also ways to mitigate that water gain like

100 water in 90steam out its water negative without productivity and water neuter with 1 mk3 productivity module
in the case of all closed loop systems u have a water source close to it anyway since i don't nee people using thousands of barrels to fill the setups

also i get why removing productivity in order to remove infinite loops is done
BUT some processes are linear and productivity is used by people in order to reduce the amount of lower tier products used and that comes at a heavy cost of power

The definition of productivity modules is creating materials from thin air

TwentyEighty wrote: ↑

Thu May 30, 2019 2:55 pm

The definition of productivity modules is creating materials from thin air

I THINK OF THEM AS MORE EFFICIENT INPUT RESOURCE USAGE

like say u need a circle of iron from a plate of iron u lose like 30% or so BUT if you arrange circles on a huge plate you will get less of a loss
aka get more from the same input material and its not resources from thin air
also reduction of dud products is a fair way to think of it
also recycling of metal scraps that were a side product

TwentyEighty wrote: ↑

Thu May 30, 2019 2:55 pm

The definition of productivity modules is creating materials from thin air

Incoming tholins nerf xD

pyanodon wrote: ↑

Thu May 30, 2019 3:15 pm

TwentyEighty wrote: ↑

Thu May 30, 2019 2:55 pm

The definition of productivity modules is creating materials from thin air

Incoming tholins nerf xD

NOOOOO

TwentyEighty wrote: ↑

Thu May 30, 2019 2:55 pm

The definition of productivity modules is creating materials from thin air

Not really, unless you can use a cycle that is negative without prod and positive with prod. Otherwise, the prod bar only goes up while the regular bar is running, so you're still consuming input, just getting more out of it.

In any case you definitely do need to be careful about overdoing prod, too much of it completely breaks the game (see god modules in Bob's mods).

Blokus wrote: ↑

Thu May 30, 2019 4:05 pm

TwentyEighty wrote: ↑

Thu May 30, 2019 2:55 pm

The definition of productivity modules is creating materials from thin air

Not really, unless you can use a cycle that is negative without prod and positive with prod. Otherwise, the prod bar only goes up while the regular bar is running, so you're still consuming input, just getting more out of it.

In any case you definitely do need to be careful about overdoing prod, too much of it completely breaks the game (see god modules in Bob's mods).

well those need careful planning for throughput and also eat power like nothing

immortal_sniper1 wrote: ↑

Thu May 30, 2019 4:14 pm

Blokus wrote: ↑

Thu May 30, 2019 4:05 pm

TwentyEighty wrote: ↑

Thu May 30, 2019 2:55 pm

The definition of productivity modules is creating materials from thin air

Not really, unless you can use a cycle that is negative without prod and positive with prod. Otherwise, the prod bar only goes up while the regular bar is running, so you're still consuming input, just getting more out of it.

In any case you definitely do need to be careful about overdoing prod, too much of it completely breaks the game (see god modules in Bob's mods).

well those need careful planning for throughput and also eat power like nothing

Last I checked, god modules just straight up give prod with no other modifier at all. But really the issue is about the stacking. Speed doesn't stack between steps, prod does. The end result of mass deployment of prod in long chains, with beacons to compensate for the speed penalty, is a tiny base that still churns out huge spm.

I don't think that "tiny base that still churns out huge SPM" is a phrase that applies to pyanodon mods regardless of the number of prod modules used, at least not with PyHT active

TwentyEighty wrote: ↑

Thu May 30, 2019 6:48 pm

I don't think that "tiny base that still churns out huge SPM" is a phrase that applies to pyanodon mods regardless of the number of prod modules used, at least not with PyHT active

If prod is enabled all over the place and some stronger prod modules than the vanilla ones were available, then the production of each individual thing would be tiny, and the base would only have any real size to it because of the sheer number of different things that need made.

Yeah that would take some VERY strong prod modules indeed, not available in vanilla. Not applicable to py alone. Each step tends to use 2x or 5x or 10x the materials in the previous step, meaning you need max prod3 modules just to keep up and prevent the need for 300 tin per science pack

well i use productivity just in order to reduce input count especially when its an organic or very expensive stuff

I'd prefer it if productivity wasn't down to a module but rather down to how much preprocessing one does and what ingredients one uses.
There are many such recipes in PyMods, you add one small ingredient and productivity increases substantially.
Or, instead of using the raw resource. You grind it down, wash it, smelt it and cast it. Getting more out of every step.

I want more of that to be honest, "better refining" which adds machines in the middle of already used stuff.

For example, iron ore. Once you make processed iron you are kinda stuck with that type of resource until you can process iron 01. It would be sweet if one got to processed iron first, but then could do a few intermediary steps to get to processed iron. You get the "end resource" early on but as you research more, you unlock small inbetween stuff one by one and add them to your production line.
And like i said, even adding other ingredients to the same recipe. Say you bathe your iron ore in sulfuric acid, you get more processed iron than you would from the jaw crusher.

Cadde wrote: ↑

Thu May 30, 2019 8:37 pm

For example, iron ore. Once you make processed iron you are kinda stuck with that type of resource until you can process iron 01. It would be sweet if one got to processed iron first, but then could do a few intermediary steps to get to processed iron. You get the "end resource" early on but as you research more, you unlock small inbetween stuff one by one and add them to your production line.
And like i said, even adding other ingredients to the same recipe. Say you bathe your iron ore in sulfuric acid, you get more processed iron than you would from the jaw crusher.

This is accomplished with the multiple tiers of processing. The issue is that the higher tier may produce more processed iron, but the amount of sulfuric acid is astronomical and no prod modules allowed.

I mean, the first recipe to get molybdenium uses 30 ore to produce only 1 molybdenium plates, and molybdenium is used by a lot of stuff before reaching red circuits.

Weonidas wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:43 am

I mean, the first recipe to get molybdenium uses 30 ore to produce only 1 molybdenium plates, and molybdenium is used by a lot of stuff before reaching red circuits.

You say "first" when there are only two, and the other one is the particle accelerator path (and it takes boron and chromium, so it doesn't seem very worthwhile).

Blokus wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:41 pm

Weonidas wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:43 am

I mean, the first recipe to get molybdenium uses 30 ore to produce only 1 molybdenium plates, and molybdenium is used by a lot of stuff before reaching red circuits.

You say "first" when there are only two, and the other one is the particle accelerator path (and it takes boron and chromium, so it doesn't seem very worthwhile).

well it is faster and more compact but uses WAY more power

You need the full mo chain regardless since you need moo3 and moS. But the mo chain takes modules so it's not so bad by the time you need mass quantities of it

You need molybendium to make stainless steel which you need for red belts and advanced parts, which are generally needed for any level 2 machine.

So if/when you want to upgrade your belts and machines beyond the basics, you need a LOT of molybendium.