pY Coal Processing - Discussion

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immortal_sniper1
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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by immortal_sniper1 »

Bishop89 wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:43 pm
Hello,

is it just me or starting out in this mod is really confusing? There are so many buildings unlocked since the start and in the end to create the first tier of science I just need 2 (not counting soil extractor). Most of them are just used for tier 2 science - should be a prerequisite of it, possibly locked behind some research (some even requires stell)? Also, why is raw wood required to make a flask? Shouldn't it be made of sand(purified sand?)+heat=glass or processed wood to pulp+something, raw wood just seems so odd. I'm not even gonna mention that I just chopped 5200 raw wood since I'm playing at x13 research costs because automated wood processing is unlocked as part of coal processing research and not since the beginning.

Still, had plenty of fun trying out your mod, and I'm eager to wait for raw ores release before investing hundreds of hours int it :)
pure sand (purified sand) is hard to make ant it produce lots of tailings also if u dont have sand extractors u are forced to crush stone and that is expensive 16:9

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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by immortal_sniper1 »

pyanodon wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:15 pm
glass will be added in pyRO. Wood is used for the cork. More wood options will come in a possible pyAL.
you never mentioned glass
interesting
cork i get that is from wood but i cant see the purposes of corks on flasks since in the lap you use plastic or glass caps

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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by pyanodon »

immortal_sniper1 wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:55 pm
you never mentioned glass
interesting
cork i get that is from wood but i cant see the purposes of corks on flasks since in the lap you use plastic or glass caps
lets say we can use anything we want since it works. :)
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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by foodfactorio »

pyanodon wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:37 am
diagonallee wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:21 am
Thanks Foodfactorio and Pyanodon for the responses- I wish I'd kept my save file so I could share it with you. I basically had a network of outposts connected by train- and I was trying to build to 1 yellow belt of red circuits (or level 2 circuits) - but I was pretty far from that. I did, however, have a yellow belt of level 1 circuits going. And I know I had well over 75 hours in the game- probably a couple hundred. I had to delete it, though, otherwise the temptation to play would be too great :P When I resume from my hiatus in November (UGH) I'll probably jump back into a Pyanodon game- I love it- especially all the organics. It's a spectacular mod.

Thank you. Were glad you had some fun playing it, thats the goal. :)
yep its all cool fun :)
(also me from the mod portal - im not dustine lol) = https://mods.factorio.com/mods/Dustine/ ... ssion/9108
my 1st Mod Idea :) viewtopic.php?f=33&t=50256

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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by foodfactorio »

immortal_sniper1 wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:12 pm
my base https://imgur.com/a/YuMbaLx

~400h
well done - youve got like 99x the amount of coal :) im gonna have to scale up
(once i solve the Riddle of Mushrooms, i will have plenty) :D
(also me from the mod portal - im not dustine lol) = https://mods.factorio.com/mods/Dustine/ ... ssion/9108
my 1st Mod Idea :) viewtopic.php?f=33&t=50256

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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by immortal_sniper1 »

RECIPE {
type = "recipe",
name = "cooling-water",
hidden = true,
category = "cooling",
enabled = false,
energy_required = 4,
ingredients = {
{type = "fluid", name = "steam", amount = 400}
},
results = {
{type = "fluid", name = "water", amount = 400}
},
main_product = "water",
subgroup = "py-fluids",
order = "a",
icon = "__pycoalprocessing__/graphics/icons/cooling-water.png",
icon_size = 32
}:add_unlock("cooling-tower-1")


--------------------------
mk2
collision_box = {{-2.4, -2.4}, {2.4, 2.4}},
selection_box = {{-2.5, -2.5}, {2.5, 2.5}},
module_specification = {
module_slots = 1
},
allowed_effects = {"speed"},
crafting_categories = {"cooling"},
crafting_speed = 2,
energy_source = {
type = "electric",
usage_priority = "secondary-input",
emissions = 0.00
-----------------------

mk1:

allowed_effects = {"speed"},
crafting_categories = {"cooling"},
crafting_speed = 1,
energy_source = {
type = "electric",
usage_priority = "secondary-input",
emissions = 0.00
},
energy_usage = "70kW",
ingredient_count = 1,
animation = {



from mod files.

so how can we calculate the cooling rate of the mk1 and mk2 in steam /s ???

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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by immortal_sniper1 »

besides thee obvious the mk2 = 2X mk1
is it 1 craft every 2 s for the mk2 so 400 steam every 2 s so 200/s steam???

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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by spitfire_23 »

Hey, I just started playing this mod with bob's mods, so maybe this a dumb question, but it seems like the crafting time for Wood is 15 seconds now? Is that expected? Having stuff like electrical poles take forever to craft is kind of unpleasant.

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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by kingarthur »

spitfire_23 wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:41 am
Hey, I just started playing this mod with bob's mods, so maybe this a dumb question, but it seems like the crafting time for Wood is 15 seconds now? Is that expected? Having stuff like electrical poles take forever to craft is kind of unpleasant.
I dont remember the exact number but that sounds about right. There's a sawmill for cutting wood into boards that is quicker than hand crafting.

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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by nagapito »

pyanodon wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:15 pm
glass will be added in pyRO. Wood is used for the cork. More wood options will come in a possible pyAL.
Unless I am missing something, if we are playing only a Py/Bobs pack leaving angels madness in the locket we land into another madness coz of glass.
No angels ores to provide quartz the only quartz available will be too much later on...
And the initial glass production with sand is not only slow but with a very low yeld!
It requires 57 washers and 178 soil extractors and 27 stone smelter to be able to obtain enough glass for one science pack per second!!!!

While excavation 2 does not have many dependencies, it is a blue science and requires some infrastructure that is provided by all the other research... that is almost forbiden to do!

Maybe, a tweak is needed in the sand/glass production ratios before pyRO is out, after all, the mod is announced for months and will probably be a couple more moths until it is out...


Edit: Also... the whole glass infrastructure would require 77MW!!!!

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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by foodfactorio »

hi the recipes changed a bit during my first game (which is still going) :)
but am pretty sure when i started with just pycoal (and vanilla), making glass wasnt much of an issue. (are you playing with pyHighTech too? that can really add a lot to the mix, to get red circuit 2) :)
(also me from the mod portal - im not dustine lol) = https://mods.factorio.com/mods/Dustine/ ... ssion/9108
my 1st Mod Idea :) viewtopic.php?f=33&t=50256

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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by nagapito »

I am playing with all py Mods and all Bob's except the module and warfare mods.
If I recall, without bob's, glass is not used for science, so the issue is not that big. And later on, when you need glass, the recipes might actually be balanced (didn't passed red science my first play with only py mods).

Now, with bob's... its kinda insane. 3 red science needs 2 flasks. Each flask is 8 glass, so we are on 16 glass per 3 science or 5.3 glass per science. That is 106 sand, 318 soil, per red science pack! 318 soil needs 27 runs that take 2 seconds on a 0.3 machine speed, so it takes 180 seconds. This might be ok for mid-game but early game, when you are making the first researchs and starting to build the first couple machines, what should take 20-30 mins becomes hours... And even for early game science, what should be an easy 1 science pack per second is a nightmare requiring dozens of machines and megawatts...

I think the mistake is assuming that if bob's are present, so will be Angel's and that might not be the case.
Seems the mod needs a better bob's/angels detection support, so it only changes some recipes when certain mods are present instead of doing a major overhaul when it detect's bob's library even if the only thing installed is something like bob's logistics...

Also, angels do not require bob's for a long time, so having the angel's support depend on bob's library being present... might also cause all sort of issues.


PS: On another totally diferent note, I love the machine sounds ad they seem well balanced when we are close to the machine. But... when we open the machine GUI, damn.. they are loud!!! Can this be slightly tweaked down?

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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by pyanodon »

Hehe dont worry. Pymods will lost their compatibility with bobs soon. Also, maybe the glass issue will be fixed with the pyRO mod we are working on.
pY Coal processing mod
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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by nagapito »

pyanodon wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:38 am
Pymods will lost their compatibility with bobs soon.
This actually worries me... I kinda like bob's mods (logistics/assemblies/intermediaries) and having bob's intermediaries replaced by Py while keeping all the new items and their recipes using Py items is something I like very much.
Instead of having to choose between bob's and Py or having them overlapping, the current compatibility, where Py extends Bob's is a very interesting design. Specially after playing Bob's for so much time, its something new and fresh!

pyanodon wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:38 am
Also, maybe the glass issue will be fixed with the pyRO mod we are working on
I was already expecting that. The question here is when? If it still takes a couple more months until it is out, wouldn't a quick rebalance of this recipe until PyRO is out more useful?

Dont get me wrong, I am not demanding anything. Everyone has a life and this is a hobby, I totally understand the timescales.
My post was just to be sure I wasn't missing anything that would make my life easier.
Since it seems that this is actually a design flaw instead of just me missing some obvious solution, I will investigate more carefully the issue and a possible balanced solution that you can easily patch the mod or in last case, I create a patch mod to help with this issue until PyRO is out.

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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by kingarthur »

nagapito wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:50 am
pyanodon wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:38 am
Pymods will lost their compatibility with bobs soon.
This actually worries me... I kinda like bob's mods (logistics/assemblies/intermediaries) and having bob's intermediaries replaced by Py while keeping all the new items and their recipes using Py items is something I like very much.
Instead of having to choose between bob's and Py or having them overlapping, the current compatibility, where Py extends Bob's is a very interesting design. Specially after playing Bob's for so much time, its something new and fresh!
Pymods Bob's compatibility is more just coming under new management when they update for pyro. As soon as pyro releases I'll be going over everything to get Bob's compatibility all set up

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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by pyanodon »

^^^^^ hear this guy^^^^
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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by spitfire_23 »

What's the philosophy for merging Bob's Mods? I'd personally want to avoid having two different ways of making stuff, e.g. I wouldn't want to choose between making Coke the Bob way or making it the pY way (I'd want the rule to be "just drop the Bob recipes when they have equivalents in PyRO").

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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by kingarthur »

spitfire_23 wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:42 pm
What's the philosophy for merging Bob's Mods? I'd personally want to avoid having two different ways of making stuff, e.g. I wouldn't want to choose between making Coke the Bob way or making it the pY way (I'd want the rule to be "just drop the Bob recipes when they have equivalents in PyRO").
Since Bob's mods tend to be relatively straight foreword anything that doesnt have specific reason to need to be kept in will be replaced.

While I cant say for certain exactly how itll be till it's done. It should end up pretty similar to how it is now

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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by nagapito »

Stupid mistake that costed me a LOT of time....

So, I started looking into the code, to see how glass is related with other items and how to balance it for early game.
First flag, there is no glass unless we have Bob's....humm...
Then... I noticed that what I thought was the main initial recipe to make glass from sand is actually the third recipe and for angels compatibility...
While that I was wondering about where were pyMods removing the bob's ore generation.
So, if glass from quartz is the correct way, why have I no ores. Maybe some bug or some option was preventing it from generating. Or even RSO....

And then... I noticed... I didn't had bob ores.........

I wondered how no one complained about this absurd grind and was pretty sure I was missing something and I actually was... the mod to add the ores that guarantee I will not spend the first 100 hours of the game making an huge glass factory from sand!

:HUGE FACEPALM:

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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by pyanodon »

Its on pycoal description that of you wanna use bobs, you need the whole suite.
pY Coal processing mod
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