Can I control multiple stations with one combinator?

Adds new train stops forming a highly configurable logistic network.

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Ormy
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Can I control multiple stations with one combinator?

Post by Ormy » Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:17 pm

I'm building a high output modular base using various mods (schall machine scaling, larger stack size, many bot-boosting mods etc). Each 'module' produces a single item. So my green circuits module has copper wire and iron plate delivered by train to provider chests then bots transport from the station to requester chests at the assemblers. The problem is that the throughput of each module is so high that a single station is not enough, I have multiple stations in a stack supplying one module.

In my previous base, all the stacked stations supplying one ingredient to one module had duplicate names. So for one green circuit module I had 8 stations all named 'iron unload", so if some of the stations are occupied the next train just goes to the next station in the stack.

Now I'm transitioning to LTN to manage my trains. I know the stations in a stack can no longer have duplicate names. My question is this: If all logistic-stations in a stack perform an identical function (e.g. 'request iron plate'), with a single type of item, with identical thresholds and everything, can they all be controlled by a single constant combinator or does each station in the stack need its own combinator for some reason, even though the configuration of each combinator will be identical?

csduff
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Re: Can I control multiple stations with one combinator?

Post by csduff » Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:55 pm

You should be able to wire all of them to a single combinator. The problem would be that they would all be requesting the same items, and if you had significant resources available you would likely have multiple deliveries simultaneously, causing overstocking of items.

You also may want to isolate them with a diode, depending on how your stations are set up.

Are you using standard combinators, or are you using the LTN Combinators mod? It may cause some issue with that.

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Re: Can I control multiple stations with one combinator?

Post by Ormy » Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:39 pm

csduff wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:55 pm
You should be able to wire all of them to a single combinator. The problem would be that they would all be requesting the same items, and if you had significant resources available you would likely have multiple deliveries simultaneously, causing overstocking of items.
Yes after thinking about it further there would be no 'balancing' of the amounts between stations. I'm still in planning/design phase for my new base, playing around with the very helpful LTN demonstration saves to figure things out as I'm planning. I'm just finding it hard/complex to visualise how LTN and the logistic bots (which I rely on heavily) will interact at extremely high throughput.
csduff wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:55 pm
You also may want to isolate them with a diode, depending on how your stations are set up.
Please elaborate, I'm familiar but not well experienced with the circuit network, I mostly do the basic stuff like turning pumps on/off when tanks get full and such. I understand diodes in electronics but how is it implemented in factorio?
csduff wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:55 pm
Are you using standard combinators, or are you using the LTN Combinators mod? It may cause some issue with that.
Standard for now as I'm still testing but will likely be using LTN combinators later to save time configuring as an LTN newbie.

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Re: Can I control multiple stations with one combinator?

Post by csduff » Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:46 pm

Ormy wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:39 pm
Please elaborate, I'm familiar but not well experienced with the circuit network, I mostly do the basic stuff like turning pumps on/off when tanks get full and such. I understand diodes in electronics but how is it implemented in factorio?
A diode is setup in Factorio by using an arithmetic combinator set to "Each + 0 --> Each" or "Each * 1 --> Each" (Not sure which one, if either, is easier on UPS). Much like in electronics, this prevents any noise (e.g., from your station's contents) from coming back into the source (e.g., constant combinator with all your resource requests). I've always used them in circuit network setups, but when you get complicated LTN setups, you pretty much have to use them.

Right now, I have every LTN station in my factory connected to a central Constant Combinator which sets the request/provide thresholds so I can change them later from one central point when I upgrade cargo/liquid wagon capacities, and if I didn't isolate every station with a diode, it would put a whole bunch of noise on my lines.

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Re: Can I control multiple stations with one combinator?

Post by Ormy » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:28 pm

csduff wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:46 pm
A diode is setup in Factorio by using an arithmetic combinator set to "Each + 0 --> Each" or "Each * 1 --> Each" (Not sure which one, if either, is easier on UPS). Much like in electronics, this prevents any noise (e.g., from your station's contents) from coming back into the source (e.g., constant combinator with all your resource requests). I've always used them in circuit network setups, but when you get complicated LTN setups, you pretty much have to use them.
I'm absolutely certain that information will make perfect sense to me when I become more familiar with the circuit network in factorio, thank you. I've played factorio for a while and deliberately delayed delving into the circuit network to prolong my enjoyment of the game.
csduff wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:46 pm
Right now, I have every LTN station in my factory connected to a central Constant Combinator which sets the request/provide thresholds so I can change them later from one central point when I upgrade cargo/liquid wagon capacities, and if I didn't isolate every station with a diode, it would put a whole bunch of noise on my lines.
Whilst I would not require that specific function (my thresholds will not need to change once I start building), the concept of controlling certain settings of every LTN station from a single combinator is very intriguing, I may ask you for more details on how this is achieved once I start actually building out the factory. Thanks again.

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Re: Can I control multiple stations with one combinator?

Post by xfir01 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:49 pm

csduff wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:46 pm
Right now, I have every LTN station in my factory connected to a central Constant Combinator which sets the request/provide thresholds so I can change them later from one central point when I upgrade cargo/liquid wagon capacities, and if I didn't isolate every station with a diode, it would put a whole bunch of noise on my lines.
Been a few months, but I think if you use the LTN combinator and LTN Tracker, you can adjust things remotely through the UI.
You should be able to wire all of them to a single combinator. The problem would be that they would all be requesting the same items, and if you had significant resources available you would likely have multiple deliveries simultaneously, causing overstocking of items.
Could you feed the LTN station output back into the stockpile so it treats the requested items as already there before queuing up another load?

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Re: Can I control multiple stations with one combinator?

Post by csduff » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:54 pm

xfir01 wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:49 pm
Could you feed the LTN station output back into the stockpile so it treats the requested items as already there before queuing up another load?
You can, and absolutely should do that. The problem lies as follows.

Let's say you have 5 stations, all wired to a single combinator, and all the stockpiles are connected together as well.
You want 10k Iron Plates, so you signal "-10k Iron Plate" to your network and all the stations.

Example 1)
If 10k Iron Plates are available in the network 10k Iron Plates are delivered.
Train is deployed, delivery complete, no problem.

Example 2)
If 50k Iron Plates are available, 10k Iron Plates are delivered to each of the 5 stations. 50k Iron Plates are delivered, and a massive overstock happens.

Example 2 is where the problem lies, because as far as LTN is concerned, 5 stations are requesting 10k.

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Re: Can I control multiple stations with one combinator?

Post by csduff » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:00 pm

xfir01 wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:49 pm
Been a few months, but I think if you use the LTN combinator and LTN Tracker, you can adjust things remotely through the UI.
You can do that, but you have to make sure that you go through every station and assign the values correctly there. Right now all my trains are LCCCL configuration, but I have the capacity to change that to LCL, LCCCCCCL, or whatever I want, and I don't have to remember that station X has to have a request capacity larger. The individual station has a request threshold automatically received from the main combinator, then calculated for however many wagons it can handle. Like I said, this way when I remove all my Cargo Wagon Mk1 (40 stack capacity) then replace with Mk2 (60 stack) or Mk3 (80 stack), it is just a matter of changing one value on one combinator, and all my stations do the rest of the calculations automatically.

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