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Trains picking up materials
Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:41 pm
by maartengj
First, I love this mod. Still I have a few questions about trains that pick up stuff.
1) A train goes to a pick up station to get for example an x amount of coal. What I notice is that the train is waiting for inactivity before delivering the coal, which causes the train to be filled with more then the x amount that it was send to get. Is there a way to make the trains leave the station when they reach the x amount they are send to get?
2) I had a train that was send to a requester station to pick up materials. How can this be prevented?
I use the blueprints that are provided in this forum.
Re: Trains picking up materials
Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:12 am
by jodokus31
You should dig into the station layouts and/or look into the archive thread. Maybe a simple detail is wrong while setting up the station.
Basically its possible to load the desired amount via the combination of reading the train inventory (option on the station has to be set) and setting filters of a filter inserter, which is described there.
If you use normal inserters without circuit conditions, it will load until nothing happens anymore (i think, theres a mod option "finish loading", which deactivates the inactivity condition, but inserters will hold items in the hand and will load it to the next train. If thats not a problem you can try it. I cannot tell exactly, because i didnt have to change this option, yet)
Its even possible, to have stations, which both requests and provides many different items at the same time.
I use it for getting barreled fluids and provide the empty barrels back and it works like a charm.
If you dont want the requester to turn into the provider, if its possible, that the requester can have more items than requested (maybe, because of your first problem), you should set the provide threshold to a higher value (default is 1000) (can be set per station by a special signal). it will only provide items, if the stations has more than the requested items plus provide threshold.
Re: Trains picking up materials
Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:33 am
by Kamuchi
It's a week late, but had the same issue while trying to figure out how LTN works.
This isn't with inserters but with the fast loaders as I decided to have my ore issues fixed first and as who uses them knows, you can't hook them up to wires so decided to do it like this.
LTN stop provides >10k
Limit trains to 3 min/max length as it's a small train on a single track running into my starter base.
I took the LTN station output of saphirite and change the signal to Y.
Changed station to read train contents and swapped foreach[yellow *] * 1 and output X.
Then just limited the belt to disable if "X < Y" and create a bleedoff on the other side running back to the silo "X > Y".
This will load the trains with a few more items due to the loader's content > stop flow > remove extra's > inactivity kicks in and train delivers the goods.
Small hurdle but it was a good learning curve to get the hang of how LTN works befor scaling it up to larger trains and multiple items for the supply trains
Inserters this would be easier as you can apply conditions, filter and stack limits depending the train content filled so far.
Green wire is requested stack size of ore.
Red wire is train cargo to run the check on.
As you can see, the train leaves with the exact requested amount while using the dumb but fast loaders, with this you can run 5 on the other side and keep 1 block open for the bleedoff
I'm quite happy with this simple solution as I'm horrible with logics so hopefully some one else might find this useful
Re: Trains picking up materials
Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:16 am
by Optera
Don't use loaders to load/unload trains. Unlike loading chests and machines that part is lua scripted and utterly tanks ups.
Use stack (filter) inserters. They are not only better for performance, but fully upgraded also move more items/tick and offer more control.
It hurts me every time I see someone using these ups tanks, that are worse than fully upgraded stack filter inserters in every possible way. I really wish I hadn't given in to popular demand and never implemented that feature in Loader Redux.
Re: Trains picking up materials
Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:34 am
by jodokus31
For angels warehouse I'm pretty happy with double rows of stack inserters (turned to long inserters by bobs mods).
For provider/requester stations, you can then have one row loading and the other unloading.
One downside of the stack inserter is, that it needs so much capacity research.
Re: Trains picking up materials
Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:24 am
by Kamuchi
Thanks for the heads up regarding their high resource consuption, I never knew that.
Also using Bob's inserters, that mod is just awesome and if anything, all the inserter options should be made stock, especially the offset
Running a 4.7ghz so I'll be safe for a little while to do some stack inserter capacity research and production, at this time I still have to make red circuit by hand so early in game I am while just trying to get a decent train layout to move all the ore crushing and smelting with LTN supply trains.
Main reason I'm using them right now everywhere is that they are so fast when you're still early in the research, Death world with all of Angel's mods and highest receipes/research make stock ore consuption look like a tutorial lol
It was a nice expirience though to figure out how to limit the train contents to match the request and dump excess, knowing how to do it with dumb things will make doing it with inserters much easier
Optera, sorry I didn't say it in my first post, but LTN is AWESOME!
In the past I tried working with Smarter Trains, which only made me feel stupid with even doing the simplest things that just left me frustrated, this is brilliant even for us that struggle with the complex logic stuff
Having 4 L-C-L and 1 L-CC-L ore pick up train zipping around made rails sooo much more enjoyable!
Re: Trains picking up materials
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:00 am
by Optera
Kamuchi wrote:Optera, sorry I didn't say it in my first post, but LTN is AWESOME!
In the past I tried working with Smarter Trains, which only made me feel stupid with even doing the simplest things that just left me frustrated, this is brilliant even for us that struggle with the complex logic stuff
Having 4 L-C-L and 1 L-CC-L ore pick up train zipping around made rails sooo much more enjoyable!
Thank you.
It's nice to hear I succeeded in making/keeping LTN accessible.
Re: Trains picking up materials
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:38 pm
by Kamuchi
Optera wrote:Thank you.
It's nice to hear I succeeded in making/keeping LTN accessible.
That is the understatement of the year
The only thing that had me going was setting up depots with the train length signals, the trains didn't give a hoot and parked where ever was an available spot to mess with the schedule as there is no inactivity when loading a wagon with coal while using Big Bags and an automatic coal supply route
Tip to other LTN newbies: set depots with different names L-C-L/L-CC-L etc and not to mess with the trains, always set a limit on the station when you design them so you have seperated request/supply "networks"
min/max 3 to base.
min/max 4 to mining outpost.
min/max 3 refuel station at each type of depot.
min/max 5 Oil/Gas depots/stations.
Then you can request any desired length train at a provider to prevent mixups.
Really don't see a need for multiple networks when you have this much control, just got to plan it right
I am so enjoying Factorio because of this
Re: Trains picking up materials
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:53 pm
by Optera
Kamuchi wrote:
Tip to other LTN newbies: set depots with different names L-C-L/L-CC-L etc and not to mess with the trains, always set a limit on the station when you design them so you have seperated request/supply "networks"
min/max 3 to base.
min/max 4 to mining outpost
min/max 3 refuel station at each type of depot
min/max 5 Oil/Gas depots/stations
Why segregate into sub networks?
I use only 2 types of trains.
L6CL (nuclear from
more locomotives) mass freight to dedicated requester
L2CL as supply for small amounts like repair packs, ammo, air filters, some iron to the refinery for making sulfuric acid
I only limit supply stations to not be served by mass freight trains as fail safe. LTN would use supply trains for those as long as one is available anyway.
Limiting provider in general doesn't do much except limiting LTNs ability to use optimal train sizes for different amounts. For example 12k iron ore with L6CL from any mine to steel smelter and 4k withL2CL from the same mines to concrete production.
Re: Trains picking up materials
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:21 pm
by Kamuchi
Optera wrote:Why segregate into sub networks?
I use only 2 types of trains.
L6CL (nuclear from
more locomotives) mass freight to dedicated requester
L2CL as supply for small amounts like repair packs, ammo, air filters, some iron to the refinery for making sulfuric acid
I only limit supply stations to not be served by mass freight trains as fail safe. LTN would use supply trains for those as long as one is available anyway.
Limiting provider in general doesn't do much except limiting LTNs ability to use optimal train sizes for different amounts. For example 12k iron ore with L6CL from any mine to steel smelter and 4k withL2CL from the same mines to concrete production.
The mess I have at the moment is because I just dived straight into all of Angel's mods for the first time, it is
really giving me the run around with the sheer amount of resources, modules and most expensive receipe.
Showing how to seperate different length trains with 2 loco's on each end would make it a little bit easier for another user if they see this, sure was scratching my head when the L2CL parked at the depot with the L1CL coal loader and had to create it's own depot
My plan was to have a small base and use the L1Cl (guess that's the right designation) but while expanding and hitting the gigantic curveball Angel throws at you, the rail plan went out the window to just have stuff deliverd.
I still can't even run a single plastic bar factory with all of that mess, but like that nub ore station loader, this mess tought me so much about your mod, how to control all the trains, the cargo and most of all been having a blast tinkering with the rail which I always hated befor.
Mostly have just been having fun with the trains though, can sit here for an hour at the L1Cl/L2Cl depot as they are all zipping in and out delivering cargo while figuring out the fabrication puzzle
When I get this figured out I'll plan out a better base with a simple L1CL inbase traffic, ore haulers and general oil/gas when ever I figure out how to filter through a dozen fluids...
I hope more people find it cause this makes the railway fun again and the world feels a little bit alive as the trains just do their thing without you having to micro manage every freaking thing and then do it all over again a dozen times if you change one thing
Re: Trains picking up materials
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:36 pm
by jodokus31
As you play with angels mods, you should have a look at the crawler trains. They are really nice, fast and big cargo (the "robot wagon" has bigger cargo, i think).
Im also playing with bobs, angels and marathon and currently have only like 15 LCC trains on a single depot (using barrels for fluids)
The problem with bobs and angels mods is, that it takes so much time to setup some new processes. In the meantime, the whole production gets low, unless you do some science. And then you trigger the new process and everything runs like crazy.
I wonder, what happens, if i start with the rockets and if I should have planned for 2 by 2 tracks.
A really useful mod is the shuttle train, which makes it easier to travel around with my construction train.
Regarding the "base": In the meantime, i have a base, which only produces everything i need for building. hundreds of robot feed assemblers, which produce the abundance of different tiers of buildings, belts, inserters, etc. But all base components (like circuits, plates, wheels) are built in outposts. I have 2 inbound stations, with a constant combinator full of requested items each. And it just works.
@Optera: LTN is such a nice enrichment to the gameplay, changes the whole way of playing. Thanks from my side, too
Re: Trains picking up materials
Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:32 am
by Kamuchi
Using Big Bags that tenfold stacks so cargo capacity isn't really an issue, but...
Wanted to do the forging aswel outside the base, but without having a clue I made this little test setup and running out of plates, just called it a day as I needed the red circuits for drones to help with the mess
Doing what I normally do, befor ragequitting over trains, I'll have to twenty fold that setup...
Really feels like a completely new game,crafting and working trains
Re: Trains picking up materials
Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:03 pm
by jodokus31
Kamuchi wrote:Using Big Bags that tenfold stacks so cargo capacity isn't really an issue, but...
Ok, that was a bit too easy for my taste
Kamuchi wrote:
Wanted to do the forging aswel outside the base, but without having a clue I made this little test setup and running out of plates, just called it a day as I needed the red circuits for drones to help with the mess
for early robots, do you know nanobots?
EDIT: Oh, by drones you meant the LTN-trains...
Got a bit offtopic. Sorry...
Re: Trains picking up materials
Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:17 pm
by Kamuchi
True, Big Bags makes it easier, but you already end up running around in circles moving stuff manually.
I like hardmode as it requires alot of extra materials, just not for the manual crafting and limited stacks while learning Factorio all over again.
Also just unlocked thermal refining to add even more stuff to the game while I'm still struggling for a good ore refining setup with the last level 4 crushers/sorters, and then you get the Petro refining...lol
Saw nanobots but not a fan of it as I like the normal drones, same reason I just had a quick glance at Angel's logistic drones and put them back in a chest while crunching towards normal logistic/construction drones.
Once you get a batch of 20 and let them build/supply themself life becomes much easier to start fixing stuff and with the LTN station soon in place I can do a land grab and start working on a more modulair/planned out base.
Still trying to get rid of all the loaders to replace with stack inserters, just from 2 block loader to fill a belt to 6 inserters
I love this setup, fire and forget and adjust a slider if you want more
Yes, yes, big blue requester chest, sue me
Re: Trains picking up materials
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:49 am
by mrvn
maartengj wrote:First, I love this mod. Still I have a few questions about trains that pick up stuff.
1) A train goes to a pick up station to get for example an x amount of coal. What I notice is that the train is waiting for inactivity before delivering the coal, which causes the train to be filled with more then the x amount that it was send to get. Is there a way to make the trains leave the station when they reach the x amount they are send to get?
2) I had a train that was send to a requester station to pick up materials. How can this be prevented?
I use the blueprints that are provided in this forum.
1) There is a config option in the mod that adds a 2s inactivity clause to the train stop conditions (default true).
This is so that inserters have time to drop the items they have in hand before the train leaves. This is important for mixed good stations because otherwise the inserter is left holding one type of good while the next train arriving requests a different type. You then get e.g. iron ore in your copper ore train.
So you have 3 choices:
A) Wire up your inserters to stop at the requested amount. You should also set the signal to reserve one slot on each wagon to garantee the inserters can always drop their hand content. Also leave some extra space at the unloading station so the extra goods can be unloaded.
B) Turn of the 2s inactivity option and don't build any mixed goods stations.
C) Add circuits and filter inserters to take out any excess / wrong goods from the train. So when a copper ore train arrives and left over iron ore is loaded it is taken right out again.
