old LTN discussion thread

[steinio]

It seems that it's (currently) not possible to have two un-/loading bays at one station.

At loading the stations turn red and on unloading the requests are doubled.

Greetings steinio

[Optera]

I have a suggestion to improve your mod. You need two more signals for the requester train stops. First signal is the “min. Priority” and second the “max. Priority”. With them you can request items only from provider with equal or higher/lower priority.

Where would segregation like this even be useful?

It seems that it's (currently) not possible to have two un-/loading bays at one station.

What's your definition of loading bay? is it everything loading into one wagon? one side of the rails? one side per wagon?
All those are possible however the combinator logic and wiring becomes trickier the more granular un-loading is handled.

What isn't possible is combining multiple stops with the same name. LTN needs to direct trains to one specific stop while train schedules only allow sending trains to a "random" stop with a given name.
I would like to have roro-stations where trains can enter from both sides myself. Maybe with the enhancements to the API in 0.15 I can find a reliable way of combining several stops into one logical unit.

At loading the stations turn red and on unloading the requests are doubled.

red lamp means you have short wired in and output

[ssilk]

I made this:
Two train stops with the same name connected together by adding a "red=-1" signal. Or a "grey=-1". That avoids the red signal.

@Optera: As already explained, this kind of train stop is needed, when you have so much traffic, that you need more than one stop. LTN makes "strange stuff", if you make separated stops to provide/request stuff from the same logistic network.

In that post I explained the difficulties to connect logistic robot network with logistic train network and how to couple two stops. Meanwhile I think the much easier way would be to add a GUI to each train stop, that enables to connect a logistic stop to the current logistic network and configure some "should have" and some "do not provide/request" items.

This way you can get also rid of this control signals (min train length etc.). And you can configure much more useful things.

[torne]

One thing I'd find useful is a signal I can send to a provider station that makes minimum delivery sizes get ignored just for that provider. I usually set minimum delivery sizes to full trainloads, but this means that whenever a provider is depleted/being deconstructed/etc, the LTN system will never pick up the last <1 trainload of resources. Being able to override the minimum delivery size for that station (along with sending a very high priority) would mean I could call a train to come get rid of whatever's left.

It'd work pretty much the same way as when you replace a chest with an active provider chest to make logistics bots come take all the contents away before you remove it.

[nuhll]

I dont understand why you dont just inclide some blueprints. I used the depot blueprint and i named all depots, like you wrote, the sam ename, but then i get pink which means "only depots can have duplicate name"... so what im doin wrong?

Would someone share some working load/unload/depot blueprint for me? Thanks... What i saw on video is just amazing. Im sure this will be added into factorio at some point!

Edit:
okay, got it working, was easier as expectet... its hard because english is not my mother language.. still, i dont like my "designs", might someone want to share their load and unloading and depot blueprints?

[downriver_bob]

Hi Guys,

Hopefully someone here can offer some insight for me. I've got a provider station providing 3x items (Lead Plate, Tin Plate & Carbon (Bob's Mods)), I've also set up a pulse counter & memory cell as per the demo save. The issue I have is when the train is dispatched to the provider station to pick up everything that is requested (5k of each) the train fills up, and can't fit everything requested in one trip. At this point the train waits, times out, and then the delivery is removed after time out, the train leaves the requester goes to the provider and waits there (nothing unloaded), until it times out again, then returns to the depot.

This mod is brilliant and has worked flawlessly for me otherwise, on single item providers, I thought I'd try out multiple item provider stations next. There are screenshots attached hopefully detailing my situation. Any suggestions on how to sort this out?

Thanks

EDITS: The train does get unloaded when it arrives at the requester, but only the first signal is set to the filter inserters (a reverse of the counter/memory cell set up is required?) so only carbon in this case is unloaded from the train

[Optera]

I know I'm turning down a lot of requests. I do so not (only) because I'm lazy, but also because there's a very high chance those features would become obsolete with 0.15.
So until i see what changes 0.15 brings I will mostly do bugfixes and refrain from adding features.

@Optera: As already explained, this kind of train stop is needed, when you have so much traffic, that you need more than one stop. LTN makes "strange stuff", if you make separated stops to provide/request stuff from the same logistic network.

In that post I explained the difficulties to connect logistic robot network with logistic train network and how to couple two stops. Meanwhile I think the much easier way would be to add a GUI to each train stop, that enables to connect a logistic stop to the current logistic network and configure some "should have" and some "do not provide/request" items.

This way you can get also rid of this control signals (min train length etc.). And you can configure much more useful things.

You can configure anything with circuit signals and they can be made to change according to player built logic. Besides a mod with as little user interaction (4 control signals) as LTN doesn't need a gui.

One thing I'd find useful is a signal I can send to a provider station that makes minimum delivery sizes get ignored just for that provider. I usually set minimum delivery sizes to full trainloads, but this means that whenever a provider is depleted/being deconstructed/etc, the LTN system will never pick up the last <1 trainload of resources. Being able to override the minimum delivery size for that station (along with sending a very high priority) would mean I could call a train to come get rid of whatever's left.

It'd work pretty much the same way as when you replace a chest with an active provider chest to make logistics bots come take all the contents away before you remove it.

LTN doesn't know an equivalent to either storage chests nor active provider chests. Turning a provider from passive into active with a signal could have applications. The final delivery of a depleted mine does not really warrant it though. You will probably need to go there regardless to remove belts and station.
Picking up trash produced by bobs or angels comes to mind as application for active providers.

Hi Guys,

Hopefully someone here can offer some insight for me. I've got a provider station providing 3x items (Lead Plate, Tin Plate & Carbon (Bob's Mods)), I've also set up a pulse counter & memory cell as per the demo save. The issue I have is when the train is dispatched to the provider station to pick up everything that is requested (5k of each) the train fills up, and can't fit everything requested in one trip. At this point the train waits, times out, and then the delivery is removed after time out, the train leaves the requester goes to the provider and waits there (nothing unloaded), until it times out again, then returns to the depot.

This mod is brilliant and has worked flawlessly for me otherwise, on single item providers, I thought I'd try out multiple item provider stations next. There are screenshots attached hopefully detailing my situation. Any suggestions on how to sort this out?

Thanks

EDITS: The train does get unloaded when it arrives at the requester, but only the first signal is set to the filter inserters (a reverse of the counter/memory cell set up is required?) so only carbon in this case is unloaded from the train

Multi deliveries with crammed full trains need more loading logic than what's showcased in the demo.
While I normally design to overload my trains and not care if that starts an additional stack, in your case you need to make sure to load exactly to the requested amount. Don't bother trying it's currently nearly impossible to load chests/trains to exact item counts. Once 0.15 lets us control how much inserters pick up it should be feasible to build such designs.
The currently working way is to make LTN create deliveries with slightly less than a full train.

For unloading merged deliveries you will need to count to cycle filters for stack inserters. This too will become vastly simpler with 0.15 with stops outputing train inventory.

[torne]

LTN doesn't know an equivalent to either storage chests nor active provider chests. Turning a provider from passive into active with a signal could have applications. The final delivery of a depleted mine does not really warrant it though. You will probably need to go there regardless to remove belts and station.
Picking up trash produced by bobs or angels comes to mind as application for active providers.

Yeah, it's not quite making it behave like an active provider; I was thinking of the very specific application of active providers to have logistics bots remove things instead of construction robots when deconstructing stuff, rather than the general "move to storage chest" behaviour.

It's not just for a depleted mine; I've been building a very modular factory and have been frequently building newer versions of different modules in a different location when I come up with a better idea or unlock new tech. What I normally do is build the new module, let it start running, and once it's serving deliveries, remove all the requests for the old version and let it work through its remaining supplies, and then have robots deconstruct the whole thing into the provider station once it stops. By bumping the priority of the provider up, trains will take most of the resources (and the machines/etc themselves) away, but it's always left with a residue. But yes, I do have to come pack up the provider station itself manually anyway - it's just a matter of where to put the things left in the chests when they all want to be consumed by different modules

Totally understand not wanting to do a lot of feature work now when 0.15 is right around the corner, though, and I do like the simplicity of the mod - it's made my very distributed design actually practical without a gargantuan combinator monster to control trains, without taking all of the interesting thought and design out of building stations and setting up high level structure.

[SeveQ]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before but here's one tiny issue that I have with the otherwise awesome mod:

I have requester stations that sometimes get filled up so much that LTN thinks they are provider stations and sends a train there to pick up items. That doesn't work because they don't have inserters that actually load the items into the trains. They just sit in the buffer crates that belong to the station, waiting to be transported away by the belts. Example: the crates at the station where the items get unloaded into tell the station that there are, let's say, 15k units of iron ore. The constant combinator and the station subtract 10k from this value (i.e. the station is configured to demand 10k) so that there are still +5k left on the network. This value is then interpreted by LTN as provided items. But they aren't. They are just unloaded and waiting to be processed.

Any idea what I can do about it?

[ssilk]

Decider combinator(s) that filters all items < 0 before you send it to ltn? So did I.

[nuhll]

Please, could someone post some blueprints of stations (loading and unloading) and depots?

If possible 1-2

[Falsuchy]

Hello can somebody explain me how i have to set up this 3 to handle merged deliverys i have read a lot hear googled a lot but did not find the solution maby my englisch is to bad so i did not find the best keywords for that
at the moment its like this at one of my Provider Station 1 Big Chest warehouse mod filld untill 20k iron / copper each and the train is coming want 2k each but only loads copper OR iron until full from what i read here that could solve my problem
Picture that was allways shown but i think never explaind i Look in the demosave but couldn't find it there ether


*edit I love this MOD

[SeveQ]

Decider combinator(s) that filters all items < 0 before you send it to ltn? So did I.

Yeah, I figured that. But that's some considerable amount of work to be done on my existing network. Had hoped that there was a way to do this in code somehow. Like a signal that tells the station whether it's just a provider or just a consumer station or both. Guess I'll just fork the project and see if I can come up with some pull request for this feature... That's the great thing about open source... if you can code, you can do stuff like this yourself... in theory

[steinio]

Hello can somebody explain me how i have to set up this 3 to handle merged deliverys i have read a lot hear googled a lot but did not find the solution maby my englisch is to bad so i did not find the best keywords for that
at the moment its like this at one of my Provider Station 1 Big Chest warehouse mod filld untill 20k iron / copper each and the train is coming want 2k each but only loads copper OR iron until full from what i read here that could solve my problem
Picture that was allways shown but i think never explaind i Look in the demosave but couldn't find it there ether


*edit I love this MOD

Filter inserter can't use negative numbers but you can calculate each*-1=each from input lamp to set filters so it only unloads required items.

Greetings steinio

[Falsuchy]

Filter inserter can't use negative numbers but you can calculate each*-1=each from input lamp to set filters so it only unloads required items.

Greetings steinio

i dont have the problem at unloading i have a problem at loading a wagon Provider Station I have saveral thinks that i put into a big warehouse and provide it to the trainsystem sometimes than LTN creates merged deliveries for example 2000 iron 2000 copper my loader cant handel that he sets the filter to both thats fine but ist not loading evenly ist just loading iron until waggon full because the trains ist staying at the station until it has also the 2000 copper

[Falsuchy]

I think i solved my problem by using an other mod that is called inventory sensor geting the content of the waggons multiply it by -1 as soon as it gets negativ on the inserter side it should delete the Filter from the inserters and go on with the other stuff

[ssilk]

The problem why this isn't working is, that this inserter can filter only one item (the first in the list).

The loading-problem of this is solved some pages before, where Optera posted a blueprint of a station, that counts the items by their contents in hand (subtracts the values in hand from the value, that comes from the stop) and filters out that items, that are then become negative value.

[nuhll]

Bug?

If using oil (as liqid) he ignores the min. delivery? Oo

Since i dont know how to count the rail tanker oil, i used the crude oil, which seems to work, i set min. delivery to 2400, but he starts to send trains with 800... 1000... ?

I used at every post the tanks, it also detects the correct amount, but still sends even if the outpost dont have enaught oil... hes driving now non stop...

EDIT:

No, its not just oil, its just everything, was it the latest update?! Why all trains ignore min delivery Oo??? (ofc i didnt used "override min delivery size")

[BlooSkies]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before but here's one tiny issue that I have with the otherwise awesome mod:

I have requester stations that sometimes get filled up so much that LTN thinks they are provider stations and sends a train there to pick up items. That doesn't work because they don't have inserters that actually load the items into the trains. They just sit in the buffer crates that belong to the station, waiting to be transported away by the belts. Example: the crates at the station where the items get unloaded into tell the station that there are, let's say, 15k units of iron ore. The constant combinator and the station subtract 10k from this value (i.e. the station is configured to demand 10k) so that there are still +5k left on the network. This value is then interpreted by LTN as provided items. But they aren't. They are just unloaded and waiting to be processed.

Any idea what I can do about it?

Decider combinator(s) that filters all items < 0 before you send it to ltn? So did I.

(Lurker registering because I really want to like this mod but-)

I've run into a similar problem, and considered that solution. I implemented it, but still found my networks getting clogged up by trains expecting to receive coal from my power plant station, for no apparent reason I could discern. I had the chests w/ the "request" const hooked to a < 0 decider, and that was the only thing going to the input. Absolutely no way a positive number should have crept into it, least of all one in the hundreds-thousands.

[Nilaus]

+Optera

I am still loving the mod, but I now have a problem with it that kind of breaks it for me. I mentioned it earlier, but didn't get a reply.
It seems that once you have more than X (10?) things being requested that cannot be delivered then it goes into an infinite spamming loop of error messages which makes the game unplayable with the mod.
Now I have to remove requests from the network, which will drastically limit the usefulness of the mod. Can you please take a look at this, since it seems like a pretty straight forward bug?
If you want a savegame to test it, then I can provide this to you in a PM.

Thank you

LTN error message spam.PNG (956.72 KiB) Viewed 7975 times

PS: I know I can set the log level to not report anything, but I actually enjoy being told when a new train schedule is being generated.