[Not a Bug] Maybe a bug with temporaire stations?

[FritzHugo3]

Hello, I noticed the following.
Nowadays, LTN doesn't care how stops are named, as it uses temporary stops.
Therefore, it doesn't matter if multiple stops have the same name.

Example:

Station A, name: „Ore coal/iron/stone“, here loading coal on train
Station B, name: „Ore coal/iron/stone“, here loading iron
Station C, name: „Ore coal/iron/stone“, here loading stone

Normal LTN get from other station the request for the three ores and this work correct although the station name are ident (if coal request the train go to Station A, for iron Station B, for stone station C)
This work absolute fine.


Here comes the problem.
If the train have not complete lost here wares (he have a rest from anything), the train will try to come to the station who have the resource BUT here they don’t prove is it the right station, we drive only in any station with name: „Ore coal/iron/stone“.
And now I have a big problem. The train mix ores here as an example.



In the first its not matter the train station’s name but in the second time he don’t prove it again is at the station with same name the right ore.


Example:

Request are coal
LTN call a train to - Station A, name: „Ore coal/iron/stone“ and he loaded up at the requested station.
If here for any reason a little rest of coal. Next is the train are called for the next request they drive to a station with name „Ore coal/iron/stone“, but sometime to station A, B or C, he don’t prove again is here the right ore again. And so I have trains in station – the train say I want coal here and bring coal but drive and stay in stone station. I thing here must be the same prove logistic like in the first working case.


Sorry my English are not verry good I hope you can understand what I want say.




I thing it happens if you stop the train, you drive short self or the user make a short temporare stop or FuelTrainStop make a drive to refuel station. But it happens only with rest ore is in the train. I have never see this with empty waggons




And if the three stations A, B, C (Ore coal/iron/stone) get a seperate name - this problem are not there


So only if Stations with same name + rest in waggon ~+ train was temporaire stops or so (last think im not sure)

[Optera]

I thing it happens if you stop the train, you drive short self or the user make a short temporare stop or FuelTrainStop make a drive to refuel station. But it happens only with rest ore is in the train. I have never see this with empty waggons

Trains run on LTN generated Schedules using only base game logic.
Changing schedules, manually or by other mods, or manually driving trains is not intended. Any resulting errors are not bugs with LTN.

[FritzHugo3]

But it happens only if the waggon have rest inside.
If train are emty all works fine.

Maybe if this are not a bug, it is nice for a future feature.



also testet (If the train stations name are not same, the train with rest go to the right station with the ore they have as rest - so they dont mix).

[Nosferatu]

Ltn doesn't work correctly if your trains can't unload what has been ordered.

1.) Try to set up your requesters so they only order what they can unload.
2.) In case 1 fails every train should be emptied in your depot.

[mrvn]

But stuff happens, you will end up with trains with stuff left in them. And then things break.

So here is what you practically need to do for your sanity: At all depot stations add inserters to unload the trains and put everything they find into a provider station that is configured to provide any mix of goods. Set a low provider threshold (I even often use 1 item as threshold) and plenty of reserved slots (even reserving half the slots is reasonable) and give it a provider priority of a million or so. Higher than any other station.

Now if a train returns to the depot with some left over stuff it will get removed. The depot stop waits for inactivity so it will wait for the train to become empty. This really should not happen but it does and now you are prepared to handle it automatically.

PS: You can also attach a speaker to the depot that gives an extra alert when you have a train with left over stuff. If it's caused by a badly designed station and not by the player messing up then it should get fixed.

PPS: Another thing you can do is use filter inserters to unload and connect them to the LTN combinator to only unload what was requested.

[FritzHugo3]

Sorry to the two previous posters, I know you wanted to help but it hasn't been helpful. I have over 200 functioning train stations and 3,000 hours of gameplay experience. Everything is set up correctly. In the options, it states that no train is allowed to leave a station with leftovers. No train is allowed to arrive unless it has previously verified that it can fully unload its cargo. The train simply ignores the condition that it must not continue until it is unloaded. However, this can lead to the condition being ignored and the train continuing to move while unloading. It is likely exacerbated by the low UPS number.

The reason why leftovers can occur is external, but I don't feel like explaining it in detail.

Now, I have the option to either rename my train stations or refuel them at the depot. In both cases, the error no longer occurs.

For me, LTN still has potential for improvement when it comes to stations with the same name. If the modder sees it differently, that is of course their right. I can only report and make suggestions.

(Just as I believe it would be useful if there was an option to allow parallel train stations to function as a single LTN station for the sake of quantity. This would prevent double orders when the stops need to deliver many different items. This was also just a suggestion and unfortunately, it was rejected.)

Since I hadn't named any station the same, the error did not occur in more than 200 hours of gameplay and a huge train grid with over 200 stations.

Translated by ChatGPT.

[Optera]

In the options, it states that no train is allowed to leave a station with leftovers. No train is allowed to arrive unless it has previously verified that it can fully unload its cargo. The train simply ignores the condition that it must not continue until it is unloaded. However, this can lead to the condition being ignored and the train continuing to move while unloading. It is likely exacerbated by the low UPS number.

I have no clue what you or ChatGPT mean by this.

1. there is no built in option to prevent leaving with leftovers
   however it is possible to build that by enabling "Schedule circuit conditions"
2. trains never ignore conditions, if they did it'd be a bug in the base game
   what likely happens is that "stop timeout" forced the train out of the station
3. Factorio is 100% deterministic.
   It will always reach the same game state after n ticks regardless of how long each tick takes to process.

German translation:
Ich habe keine Ahnung was du oder ChatGPT damit aussagen wollen.

1. es gibt keine eingebaute Option die verlassen mit Restladung verhindert.
   Nach aktivieren von "Schedule circuit conditions" kann das vom Spieler selbst gebaut werden.
2. Züge ignorieren keine Bedingungen, das wäre ein Bug im Spiel selbst.
   Wahrscheinlich hat "stop timeout" den Zug aus der Station geschmissen.
3. Factorio ist 100% deterministisch.
   Nach n Ticks wird immer der selbe Zustand erreicht, unabhängig davon wie lange die Berechnung eines Ticks dauert.

[FritzHugo3]

"trains never ignore conditions, if they did it'd be a bug in the base game
what likely happens is that "stop timeout" forced the train out of the station"

I have watch an houre or so in stations and loock in the trains. I have seen this.
Train comes, (normal lloading needs 10-15 seconds but he have infinity time in option) and befor he is emty the drive.
Why this happen are total not interesting and unimportant.


If in the middle from the ltn course happen things they dont prove the stations again. So at the picture the red lines stay for a break or for manueal drive or you (or an mod) gives an plus station or something else - ltn dont prof again are the station where i am now with the name „Ore coal/iron/stone“ the station a or b or c. Are this station where im now the station who called me. the station, where I'm really asking for the goods - the condition is still correct

If there an second prove at the station it featured a second thing. If the player put stuff from her own inventory in the chest the condition was maybe changed. An becouse this only is an problem if there are stuff in the train this prove must only happen if the train are not empty.


(Have Chests with 500 slots so 25k from 50er stack can in the chest)


So i think at the red line point
if are there more than one station with this name then
if this the station who was called me? / Are what the station called items the same with my conditions (i want coal - have you coal) - no change
else stop the train and give a waring - or much better, try to find the right station in system who called me and set a new temporaer [000, 000].

I thing it would upgrade ltn if it did - as an fail save.

[mrvn]

Yes, if you shoot yourself in the head you die.