GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Clever and beautiful constructions, bigger than two chunks
- Defense: killing biters as an art
- Castles, Throne Rooms, Decorations (comfortable living in the Factorio World)
- Main Bus Concepts
- Modular Systems, Factory Streets, show how all works together
- Megabases
Please provide us with blueprints or saves, if that makes sense of course.
Forum rules
Clever and beautiful constructions, bigger than two chunks
DragonHeart996
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:49 pm
Contact:

Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by DragonHeart996 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:06 am

Anomoly2012 wrote:
DragonHeart996 wrote:
NiftyManiac wrote:I've posted an updated v2 version, which fixes three bugs that caused it to stop and adds chain signals to help with train deadlock. Thanks DragonHeart. Also, I set this up to run 24/7 on a private server so we can really see the limits of this thing :).
Anomoly2012 wrote:My hope was to be able to place down 4 robo ports at the 4 corner big pole spots to make the network for just that cell... then place down a set up where i put in a blueprint i want built in the cell.. and then have another cell be storage for all the various goodies are stored have a train bring out the items and have the cell build it...
I like the ideas. Sure, should be completely possible. Naturally, you'll need to handle oil collection and transport yourself, but otherwise it's entirely doable. A few caveats:
  • If you plug your construction cell into the global red and green wires (which you may want to do, if you want to be able to communciate back to base) you'll need be careful not to interfere with the signals already on the wire. If you stick to positive virtual signals on the red wire you'll be OK. Negative values on green should also be OK, but check the signal documentation (linked in the OP) to make sure you don't affect any of the code variables, since they read directly from the green wire.
  • If you want to be able to plug in a blueprint and send a signal to retrieve the correct materials by train, you'll need a way to do that conversion. I do it just with a bunch of constant combinators I hard-coded with item counts. A better way would be to use the Blueprint Digitizer from Recursive Blueprints or Read Blueprint Info command from ConMan. I haven't tested either, though.
one small bug: if you have too much of a surplus of one ore (say 75K copper), and a outpost has enough of it (say 30K) then the combinator dealing with priority related to that ore at the outpost overflows, outputting zero, and the trains act as if it had none of the surplus ore, causing a positive feedback loop. luckily, the fix is simple: set the priority combinators at the dropoff station to be divide by -10 rather than multiply by -1. the relative priorities work out the same, but the numbers are ten times smaller, so no overflows!
But so long as you don't interfere with the scouts system... could you not add another brain to handle a smaller train station request/supply needs... just have it watch the network for the needs of the various train stops... separated networks

Say you need X number of a finished product... have the network detect a demand for this item, then go through a build that sends all required items to the final product is achieved... Complete BS of me.. as i dont have the network skill... =)


Would completely resolve the fluid issues... just have each cell built individually... You only need to add the request/provide system installed... which seems to be doable.. going to watch a few train network tutorials..
theoretically you could do that too. :) i was thinking more of a system that worked like the logistic robot network, which is what LTN does, but your idea would work. as it happens, you are talking to the right person for help! i have actually made a functional smart factory before, which would calculate every item needed to make a rocket, or any number of any combination of items you wanted it to make!

P.S. if you want to work with me, i would be happy to help. just send me a PM ind we can arrange a voice call.
Last edited by DragonHeart996 on Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

DragonHeart996
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:49 pm
Contact:

Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by DragonHeart996 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:07 am

Anomoly2012 wrote:
DragonHeart996 wrote:
DragonHeart996 wrote: logistic train network deals with supply/demand, letting you use trains like logistic bots in functionality. the circuits add a bit more smartness to make sure the central dropoff does not get clogged with one ore, but if you only have one item per train stop, LTN's basic resource handling will never clog up.
if you do go with LTN though, don't put the raw ores on it. smelt them first, or you'll have a big mess on your hands! :)

A had thought to have a bot smelting cell that can produce plates... would the current network allow a request ore to be turned to plate/brick and then send that over to a storage cell... and go from there... just have robo ports in the cell, and request say 10k iron/copper/stone into the cell to be handled.. then have it keep requesting ore till X amount of plates are in the system for that cell... then just set up a green circuit build and request iron and copper to make green's... then add them to the storage cell... and then just progress out from there...

Edited : I have never done anything like this in any of my previous builds... i normally do a main bus system.. This is still a bit new to me... But It got me back into playing instead of waiting for 15 to drop... =)
anything else would work fine. ore would interfere with the existing ore network.

Anomoly2012
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:14 pm
Contact:

Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by Anomoly2012 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:20 am

DragonHeart996 wrote:
Anomoly2012 wrote:
DragonHeart996 wrote:
NiftyManiac wrote:I've posted an updated v2 version, which fixes three bugs that caused it to stop and adds chain signals to help with train deadlock. Thanks DragonHeart. Also, I set this up to run 24/7 on a private server so we can really see the limits of this thing :).
Anomoly2012 wrote:My hope was to be able to place down 4 robo ports at the 4 corner big pole spots to make the network for just that cell... then place down a set up where i put in a blueprint i want built in the cell.. and then have another cell be storage for all the various goodies are stored have a train bring out the items and have the cell build it...
I like the ideas. Sure, should be completely possible. Naturally, you'll need to handle oil collection and transport yourself, but otherwise it's entirely doable. A few caveats:
  • If you plug your construction cell into the global red and green wires (which you may want to do, if you want to be able to communciate back to base) you'll need be careful not to interfere with the signals already on the wire. If you stick to positive virtual signals on the red wire you'll be OK. Negative values on green should also be OK, but check the signal documentation (linked in the OP) to make sure you don't affect any of the code variables, since they read directly from the green wire.
  • If you want to be able to plug in a blueprint and send a signal to retrieve the correct materials by train, you'll need a way to do that conversion. I do it just with a bunch of constant combinators I hard-coded with item counts. A better way would be to use the Blueprint Digitizer from Recursive Blueprints or Read Blueprint Info command from ConMan. I haven't tested either, though.
one small bug: if you have too much of a surplus of one ore (say 75K copper), and a outpost has enough of it (say 30K) then the combinator dealing with priority related to that ore at the outpost overflows, outputting zero, and the trains act as if it had none of the surplus ore, causing a positive feedback loop. luckily, the fix is simple: set the priority combinators at the dropoff station to be divide by -10 rather than multiply by -1. the relative priorities work out the same, but the numbers are ten times smaller, so no overflows!
But so long as you don't interfere with the scouts system... could you not add another brain to handle a smaller train station request/supply needs... just have it watch the network for the needs of the various train stops... separated networks

Say you need X number of a finished product... have the network detect a demand for this item, then go through a build that sends all required items to the final product is achieved... Complete BS of me.. as i dont have the network skill... =)


Would completely resolve the fluid issues... just have each cell built individually... You only need to add the request/provide system installed... which seems to be doable.. going to watch a few train network tutorials..
theoretically you could do that too. :) i was thinking more of a system that worked like the logistic robot network, which is what LTN does, but your idea would work. as it happens, you are talking to the right person for help! i have actually made a functional smart factory before, which would calculate every item needed to make a rocket, or any number of any combination of items you wanted it to make!

P.S. if you want to work with me, i would be happy to help. just send me a PM ind we can arrange a voice call.
i'm a bit of an odd ball... and i will probaly drive you bat sh t crazy... sure we could set something up... how do you wanna handle the voice? and i will pm you the info... i have cell,skype,discord...


Edited : Grey Goo has changed the META!!!

DragonHeart996
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:49 pm
Contact:

Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by DragonHeart996 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:21 am

Anomoly2012 wrote: i'm a bit of an odd ball... and i will probaly drive you bat sh t crazy... sure we could set something up... how do you wanna handle the voice? and i will pm you the info... i have cell,skype,discord...
Skype.

also, you could say the same about me XD. i think we'll get along fine.

NiftyManiac
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:01 am
Contact:

Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by NiftyManiac » Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:30 am

DragonHeart996 wrote:here is my rocket producing save!
Nice. I added matter voids to consume resources so that your train fleet would start moving, and got this: http://imgur.com/MJzVb8p haha.

Also I've thought of a way to do train routing myself, using Stringy Train Stops instead of LTN. That mod just lets you rename stops via circuit condition, and give them goals via circuit conditions; I know how to make my own priority system with this and some combinator logic. Not sure if I'll get around to implementing it on this version though.

gamewarden7
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:26 pm
Contact:

Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by gamewarden7 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:03 am

Heyo! Wonderful creation you've made here!
So nice to see a sell sufficient and growing factory! I'm trying to decode the combinators (Yes, I know you made some signal documentation on the OP, but still...), and it's been giving me a headache. However you managed to build this is beyond me, much applause dud.

Anomoly2012
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:14 pm
Contact:

Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by Anomoly2012 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:42 am

NiftyManiac wrote:
DragonHeart996 wrote:here is my rocket producing save!
Nice. I added matter voids to consume resources so that your train fleet would start moving, and got this: http://imgur.com/MJzVb8p haha.

Also I've thought of a way to do train routing myself, using Stringy Train Stops instead of LTN. That mod just lets you rename stops via circuit condition, and give them goals via circuit conditions; I know how to make my own priority system with this and some combinator logic. Not sure if I'll get around to implementing it on this version though.

DragonHeart and I are planning to set up a test to see how viable this is as a legit Playthrough.. Just need to do some networking stuff and set up basic outpost cells for the various production,, should hopefully have it up and running by this weekend for testing...

Hopefully this helps you in continuing to work on this... Would love to see how this grows and your logic on it... =) And I'm always happy for a new updated version to run... a 1 RPM base seems so small compared to this idea... =)

so you think stringy train stops would be a better solution than LTN... As i am not familiar with either i suppose i will have to look at each to see which will suit my needs...

Edited: Would love to see a blueprint string or foreman string for anything new your working on that could possibly be just added to the already existing cells... I'm looking for tutorials on setting up the stations using either LTN or Stringy trains... but nothing really good so far...
Last edited by Anomoly2012 on Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

Steelsky
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:37 am
Contact:

Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by Steelsky » Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:48 am

I am by no means a coder (Old Skool IT Techie here) but I'd love to play about with the concept of the selfreplicating base in various environments.

Would it be possible to to create a modpackage that has the mods and a stash of items and blueprints that will allow us to set the starting conditions of a map and place the cells to get it going?

/S

Anomoly2012
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:14 pm
Contact:

Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by Anomoly2012 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:17 am

Steelsky wrote:I am by no means a coder (Old Skool IT Techie here) but I'd love to play about with the concept of the selfreplicating base in various environments.

Would it be possible to to create a modpackage that has the mods and a stash of items and blueprints that will allow us to set the starting conditions of a map and place the cells to get it going?

/S

The first page of this has downloads of maps and mods used... =)

Steelsky
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:37 am
Contact:

Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by Steelsky » Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:18 am

Anomoly2012 wrote:The first page of this has downloads of maps and mods used... =)
I've run it a couple of times but I'd like to see how it would do if I generate a new map to run it on.

As I understand the setup it would need to be a waterless map or something close to it since the current setup can't handle water

Getting the setup transferred from that game to a blank setup would be a challenge, at least to me.

/S

DragonHeart996
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:49 pm
Contact:

Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by DragonHeart996 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:33 pm

Steelsky wrote:
Anomoly2012 wrote:The first page of this has downloads of maps and mods used... =)
I've run it a couple of times but I'd like to see how it would do if I generate a new map to run it on.

As I understand the setup it would need to be a waterless map or something close to it since the current setup can't handle water

Getting the setup transferred from that game to a blank setup would be a challenge, at least to me.

/S
Use the foreman mod to transfer the start blueprints into a new save to build it.

DragonHeart996
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:49 pm
Contact:

Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by DragonHeart996 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:35 pm

NiftyManiac wrote:
DragonHeart996 wrote:here is my rocket producing save!
Nice. I added matter voids to consume resources so that your train fleet would start moving, and got this: http://imgur.com/MJzVb8p haha.

Also I've thought of a way to do train routing myself, using Stringy Train Stops instead of LTN. That mod just lets you rename stops via circuit condition, and give them goals via circuit conditions; I know how to make my own priority system with this and some combinator logic. Not sure if I'll get around to implementing it on this version though.
Lol. That's what happens when a train decides to not properly stop at a signal. XD
It doesn't happen often though.

Steelsky
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:37 am
Contact:

Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by Steelsky » Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:30 pm

DragonHeart996 wrote:
Use the foreman mod to transfer the start blueprints into a new save to build it.[/quote]

And then add the items to my inventory via console commands to start up the build from a Personal Roboport, seems doable :-)

Thanks, I'd not considered that way around it.

/Søren

gamewarden7
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:26 pm
Contact:

Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by gamewarden7 » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:01 am

Hey there NiftyManiac, just wanted to point out that some of the resource trains were beginning to clog up (I added around 10 more trains along with a new depot) with copper and coal because iron was being used up so much. I saw that this was because the trains were set to leave the cells when they have over a certain amount of iron ore, and leave the ore drop after the have deposited all of their iron ore, but the copper and coal would keep on stocking up in those trains. What would be the fix for this problem that I am having?

-GW7

SereneRebel
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 2:26 am
Contact:

Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by SereneRebel » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:43 pm

I have to say i have spent the good portion of the last 3 days furiously studying this gamechanger and looking how to use this for other expansion methods. i must say this is genius.

Now i have it loaded with some other mods, namely FactorioExtended, that allows me to use roboport mk2(huge range) to make the cells larger and expanding the rail crossings to alleviate gridlock this has been the most fun.

Thankyou good sir!!

Anomoly2012
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:14 pm
Contact:

Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by Anomoly2012 » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:55 pm

Steelsky wrote:
Anomoly2012 wrote:The first page of this has downloads of maps and mods used... =)
I've run it a couple of times but I'd like to see how it would do if I generate a new map to run it on.

As I understand the setup it would need to be a waterless map or something close to it since the current setup can't handle water

Getting the setup transferred from that game to a blank setup would be a challenge, at least to me.

/S

Ok, so i loaded up the V2 of this base... took the blue print book and copied over.. also took a fresh copy of just the starting area for V2.. as this 1 only has 1 train stop at each of the ore drop off points vs the everything blueprint which has 2... OCD.. or is this what is causing my start up issue...


I put in the 5 ore trains as well as the scout train... loaded the scout train full, added like 50k of each the 4 required copper, iron, coal, stone to give myself a boost.. then put the books into the box as well as the deconstruct print... and then plugged in power.... Nothing... sat around for about 20 minutes and nothing...


What step am i missing? im not getting any indication that the scout needs to start... as in the initial blueprint ghost i need to place items on for it to start... Or do i need to set 1 down at the next cell location to get it started?

Some more detailed instructions would be very helpfull...

NiftyManiac
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:01 am
Contact:

Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by NiftyManiac » Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:12 pm

Anomoly2012 wrote:I put in the 5 ore trains as well as the scout train... loaded the scout train full, added like 50k of each the 4 required copper, iron, coal, stone to give myself a boost.. then put the books into the box as well as the deconstruct print... and then plugged in power.... Nothing... sat around for about 20 minutes and nothing...
I should probably write a mod for this... transferring the blueprint is very finicky. You can ignore the blueprints I have in inventory; I used them for starting this run but they're outdated. Make a fresh blueprint. Here's everything that needs to happen:
  • Place all of the trains. Send the normal trains to the main Depot, send the Scout train to the Supply Depot (you don't actually have to rename them, but they have to go to the right station)
  • Put in items into the supply depot and/or the supply train to serve the scout at the beginning. Load up the scout roboports with construction and logistic bots, and the depot roboports with logistic bots.
  • Put the "Autobook" into the primary blueprint deployer. Important: don't use any book you find in inventory, use only the one already in the blueprint deployer in my save. Use Foreman or something to save/load it.
  • Important: Foreman does not preserve order of blueprints in a book! You must match the order and position of blueprints in the book exactly to what I have in the save.
  • Set the cargo wagon filters on the supply train. Here's a little code snippet to save and load filters to a file, if you know Lua.
    Filter code
  • Disconnect the power cables to the center "small electric pole" of the power loss detector. Take a look at the save to make sure yours matches up.
  • Set up the code state. Here goes:
    • Identify four important controls: at the top right of the code, there are two buttons labeled "clear" and "STEP". There's also two unlabeled ones: "memclear" just to the left, and "meminit" directly above "clear".
    • Make sure there are no lights lit in the code. If there are, hit "clear". If there still are, find nearby wires that connect the front and back of a single combinator. Disconnect and reconnect them. Keep doing this until no lights are on.
    • Hit "memclear".
    • Toggle the combinator to the far right of "UNTIL G=0...". The light should turn red.
    • Hit "STEP". a white light should appear next to the red one.
    • Hit "clear". That white light should disappear.
    • Hit "meminit".
    • Toggle the same combinator you did before. The red light should disappear.
    • Hit the button at the far right from "GOSUB step...". Make sure you hit the right one! This should send it into the supply routine, call the supply train, and continue when it gets enough supplies.
I haven't had a chance to test this procedure, but I think I covered everything.

NiftyManiac
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:01 am
Contact:

Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by NiftyManiac » Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:25 pm

gamewarden7 wrote:Hey there NiftyManiac, just wanted to point out that some of the resource trains were beginning to clog up (I added around 10 more trains along with a new depot) with copper and coal because iron was being used up so much. I saw that this was because the trains were set to leave the cells when they have over a certain amount of iron ore, and leave the ore drop after the have deposited all of their iron ore, but the copper and coal would keep on stocking up in those trains. What would be the fix for this problem that I am having?

-GW7
That's odd, surely with the number of stack inserters at the depot they'd be able to unload much of the copper and coal anyway? I haven't seen that behavior. One solution would be to move the rail signals right up against the dropoff stations, so that when trains are waiting for the depot station to clear, they're still being unloaded. But I'm not sure exactly why your issue is happening; when there's too much copper they should stop visiting copper stations anyway.

gamewarden7
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:26 pm
Contact:

Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by gamewarden7 » Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:11 pm

NiftyManiac wrote:
gamewarden7 wrote:Hey there NiftyManiac, just wanted to point out that some of the resource trains were beginning to clog up (I added around 10 more trains along with a new depot) with copper and coal because iron was being used up so much. I saw that this was because the trains were set to leave the cells when they have over a certain amount of iron ore, and leave the ore drop after the have deposited all of their iron ore, but the copper and coal would keep on stocking up in those trains. What would be the fix for this problem that I am having?

-GW7
That's odd, surely with the number of stack inserters at the depot they'd be able to unload much of the copper and coal anyway? I haven't seen that behavior. One solution would be to move the rail signals right up against the dropoff stations, so that when trains are waiting for the depot station to clear, they're still being unloaded. But I'm not sure exactly why your issue is happening; when there's too much copper they should stop visiting copper stations anyway.
The problem with your idea is that trains that are waiting at a signal won't have their cargo accessible by inserters....
The problem is that the cells have mixed ores, so some of the outposts the trains go to when the main base signals from iron ore have copper, coal and iron, so they get those as well as iron, but when they wait at the dropoff, the trains wait until there is less than the specified amount(of iron) your system gives the trains, and then goes to the depot. I hope that helps you understand my problem more :D

-GW7

NiftyManiac
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:01 am
Contact:

Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by NiftyManiac » Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:04 pm

DragonHeart: I figured out the bug with the deconstruction orders! Maybe you were right about the half-hour timeout, but there's a bigger bug: if you just let the factory expand, it'll start placing blueprints onto ungenerated chunks, which will screw everything up! I filed a bug report (viewtopic.php?f=23&t=41780&p=245581#p245581). I could fix it by modifying the recursive blueprints mod to trigger chunk generation if you're placing blueprints too far away.
gamewarden7 wrote:The problem with your idea is that trains that are waiting at a signal won't have their cargo accessible by inserters....
Oh right. You could straighten out the depot stop and have unloading happen there too, so the unwanted ore gets unloaded while it's waiting for the next assignment. The LTN mod is pretty rigid though, I'm probably going to move to something else in the future.

Post Reply

Return to “Medium/Big/Gigantic Sized Structures”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: RinDiddy