GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Clever and beautiful constructions, bigger than two chunks
- Defense: killing biters as an art
- Castles, Throne Rooms, Decorations (comfortable living in the Factorio World)
- Main Bus Concepts
- Modular Systems, Factory Streets, show how all works together
- Megabases
Please provide us with blueprints or saves, if that makes sense of course.
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Clever and beautiful constructions, bigger than two chunks
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Steelsky
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Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by Steelsky » Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:49 am

What is the current record for most tiles?

I am running the V2 of the base save and it's up to 669 (probably 675 as I'm writing this)

/s

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Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by Anomoly2012 » Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:35 pm

NiftyManiac wrote:
Anomoly2012 wrote:I put in the 5 ore trains as well as the scout train... loaded the scout train full, added like 50k of each the 4 required copper, iron, coal, stone to give myself a boost.. then put the books into the box as well as the deconstruct print... and then plugged in power.... Nothing... sat around for about 20 minutes and nothing...
I should probably write a mod for this... transferring the blueprint is very finicky. You can ignore the blueprints I have in inventory; I used them for starting this run but they're outdated. Make a fresh blueprint. Here's everything that needs to happen:
  • Place all of the trains. Send the normal trains to the main Depot, send the Scout train to the Supply Depot (you don't actually have to rename them, but they have to go to the right station)
  • Put in items into the supply depot and/or the supply train to serve the scout at the beginning. Load up the scout roboports with construction and logistic bots, and the depot roboports with logistic bots.
  • Put the "Autobook" into the primary blueprint deployer. Important: don't use any book you find in inventory, use only the one already in the blueprint deployer in my save. Use Foreman or something to save/load it.
  • Important: Foreman does not preserve order of blueprints in a book! You must match the order and position of blueprints in the book exactly to what I have in the save.
  • Set the cargo wagon filters on the supply train. Here's a little code snippet to save and load filters to a file, if you know Lua.
    Filter code
  • Disconnect the power cables to the center "small electric pole" of the power loss detector. Take a look at the save to make sure yours matches up.
  • Set up the code state. Here goes:
    • Identify four important controls: at the top right of the code, there are two buttons labeled "clear" and "STEP". There's also two unlabeled ones: "memclear" just to the left, and "meminit" directly above "clear".
    • Make sure there are no lights lit in the code. If there are, hit "clear". If there still are, find nearby wires that connect the front and back of a single combinator. Disconnect and reconnect them. Keep doing this until no lights are on.
    • Hit "memclear".
    • Toggle the combinator to the far right of "UNTIL G=0...". The light should turn red.
    • Hit "STEP". a white light should appear next to the red one.
    • Hit "clear". That white light should disappear.
    • Hit "meminit".
    • Toggle the same combinator you did before. The red light should disappear.
    • Hit the button at the far right from "GOSUB step...". Make sure you hit the right one! This should send it into the supply routine, call the supply train, and continue when it gets enough supplies.
I haven't had a chance to test this procedure, but I think I covered everything.

NiftyManiac
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Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by NiftyManiac » Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:33 pm

I've put up v3 which adds radars to the scout. I also realized that my cell size just happens to be exactly 3x3 chunks. If I'd realized sooner, I could have started the factory aligned with the chunks, which would have made radar placement much easier.
Steelsky wrote:What is the current record for most tiles?

I am running the V2 of the base save and it's up to 669 (probably 675 as I'm writing this)

/s
I think you've got it! Last record I heard of was 441. My own factory is running nonstop to find issues but I reset it pretty often when I make new changes. Maybe I should keep a record in the OP? Put up a screenshot and I'll make a "factory size record"!

Hey Anomoly, please don't quote huge blocks if you don't need to, it makes the thread much harder to read.
Last edited by NiftyManiac on Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

nuhll
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Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by nuhll » Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:26 pm

why you dont include ALL mods needed?!

edit: i see, they are not needed, it just seemed like because they show red when you load the map.

1. Great work, very impressive, will let it run some time. How long did you test?

2. Just btw, if you implement robotarmy to it, the base could even self defend :) - and it would use some resources

3. Why dont use the wood to make some energy? - you could run the base at night with it 8-) 8-) 8-)

4. You could also use one mod to automatic deconstruct every tree in range from the roboports... - or is there a reason for not using it?

5. if i use /c game.speed=10, the navigation gets slower (but it says 60/260) is there a way around it?

6. im not quite sure if miners use energy when they cant produce anythign because they are blocked, but if they use, couldn u use a power switch to turn unused areas (or full) down?

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Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by Anomoly2012 » Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:20 pm

So i have been playing with this in creative mode to try and get this to start... I followed your instructions as best i could... the code is what is confusing... it looked to respond as all the lights cycled and then nothing...

Not sure what i am doing wrong...

Possible to do a quick video? As seeing the steps you take would be helpful to me... Thanks

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Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by joseph222 » Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:21 am

You had said that you had created a 24/7 server... what is the name of the server??????

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Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by macross » Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:48 am

Hmm, upgraded to v3 and something odd happens that I didn't see in earlier versions. The initial (2-engine) cargo train that re-ups the inventory of new tiles ends up looping around and never unloading anything for many cycles. This only starts happening about a dozen tiles in. I looked a little closer and noticed that it has wooden crates in as fuel instead of cargo, not sure if that's a factor. I'm new-ish to factorio, so I'm not sure how to dig in and see what's going on...

Overall this is pretty amazing and fun to watch/play with. Thanks!

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Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by Beeskee » Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:23 am

@NiftyManiac:
You, sir, are a living god.
This is amazing.

I'd love to see it be able to handle oil & etc. XD I'm sure that is tricky. The only thing I can think of is a grid of pipes overlaid after placing the jacks. At least you can barrel and ship the oil.

I was re-watching the video. You could probably use the spare wood for surplus train fuel.

Also, for placing trains, isn't there a mod that lets inserters place them? Edit: Apparently not. XD

Edit: Playing this, I've had it run out of yellow belts and medium power poles, on cells that had a lot of mining going on. Also it gradually fills up with stone from the boulders that it removes.

It would be cool if it cleared less trees in a mining cell. Maybe only for the strips that it is going to actually build.

Did you mean to use fast inserters instead of stack inserters on the mining cell chest->train part?

I'm tempted to either write a virus, or offer a bounty for it. XD
Last edited by Beeskee on Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:38 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by Steelsky » Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:09 pm

This is as far as I've gotten.
20170227190301_1.jpg
GreyGoo
20170227190301_1.jpg (506.4 KiB) Viewed 3838 times
It's based on V2 of the save and between this and the next Autosave LTN tosses an error in a LUA.

I'll kick off a V3 that I saw in the thread and see what happens.

Sadly i don't seem to have the time between work and family to look into making a package to start a Goo on a random map so it'll be a 0.15 project to bootstrap to one from zero and a blueprint transfer.

/S

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Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by NiftyManiac » Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:38 pm

nuhll wrote:You could also use one mod to automatic deconstruct every tree in range from the roboports... - or is there a reason for not using it?
Why would I want to auto deconstruct all trees? My robots handle trees fine. Also I really like the stations nestled in dense forest, it's something you never see when humans build factories. Grey Goo is eco-friendly :).
nuhll wrote:f i use /c game.speed=10, the navigation gets slower (but it says 60/260) is there a way around it?
No way around it AFAIK.
Anomoly2012 wrote:So i have been playing with this in creative mode to try and get this to start... I followed your instructions as best i could... the code is what is confusing... it looked to respond as all the lights cycled and then nothing...
Yeah, the problem is, I think, that when you put down the blueprint the code is in an undefined state, and you have to understand it somewhat to reset it properly. Eventually I'll make either a video or a mod to do it, but it's a pain in the ass.
joseph222 wrote:You had said that you had created a 24/7 server... what is the name of the server??????
Sorry, keeping it private for now. If you know a way I can make it public but make it "observer only", let me know.
macross wrote:The initial (2-engine) cargo train that re-ups the inventory of new tiles ends up looping around and never unloading anything for many cycles.
That's the normal behavior if it's missing material. If you look at the supply station at the scout that it's going to, there's a single combinator that outputs the items it's waiting for. You can then go back and see why that item isn't being produced. Usually it clears itself up eventually.
Beeskee wrote:Also, for placing trains, isn't there a mod that lets inserters place them?
Link? If there is I'll love you forever, I've been looking for something like that.

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Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by FreezingHot » Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:41 am

let me tell you this first I don't have the faintest clue about what the heck is going on in factorio but I enjoy to play it. when I first saw this video on youtube I got curious and seeing the problems I want to help. so here it goes. can't you make it name stations like numbers 1, 2, 3...? maybe changing a game file or smth? because I watch Arumba and he made the game name roboports, stations after his subscribers. my second idea is : of course it's going to be a big big factory. how about you use 4 rails instead of 2? or maybe pockets but it's pretty much the same as 4 rails. and I say again I don't know anything about combinators, circuit networks, logistic networks. 0 math knowledge here just imagining things and trying if it work. so I am saying maybe you can try too.

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Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by Beeskee » Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:38 am

NiftyManiac wrote:
Beeskee wrote:Also, for placing trains, isn't there a mod that lets inserters place them?
Link? If there is I'll love you forever, I've been looking for something like that.
I can't seem to find it. Maybe it was a suggestion. I edited my previous post with some additional info too, I didn't see that folks had replied. XD Oops.

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Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by NiftyManiac » Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:08 am

Beeskee wrote:Playing this, I've had it run out of yellow belts and medium power poles, on cells that had a lot of mining going on. Also it gradually fills up with stone from the boulders that it removes.
Did you mean to use fast inserters instead of stack inserters on the mining cell chest->train part?
Yeah, running out is a bit unavoidable. It's a tradeoff. I could carry enough for 11 mining columns at all times, but that's a lot of inventory when usually you only put down no more than 3-4 columns. It's only an issue when there's not enough medium power poles for the station itself. That's why the supply station uses small power poles; I should do the same for the mining station.

I use fast inserters because without oil, I can't produce stack inserters. In things I recycle, like the supply station, I use stack inserters.

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Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by Beeskee » Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:08 am

I've been watching it run. It would only need a few more stacks of conveyors and power poles to handle a full mining cell, and it seems like there are always at least 2 empty chests of storage in the scout cell. I'd say you have enough room, based on observation.

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Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by Rabisu » Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:48 pm

NiftyManiac wrote:
Yeah, running out is a bit unavoidable. It's a tradeoff. I could carry enough for 11 mining columns at all times, but that's a lot of inventory when usually you only put down no more than 3-4 columns. It's only an issue when there's not enough medium power poles for the station itself. That's why the supply station uses small power poles; I should do the same for the mining station.
I changed the combinators so that it asks for 12 mining columns whenever there's less than 6 and it doesn't seem to cause any problems. Would it be hard to add another storage chest (or a few)? I did change the wood dropoff blueprint on my end and it collects stone beautifully.

Also, there are still 3 or 4 furnaces with inserters pointing the wrong way (so they don't smelt things until you turn them around). They're pretty easy to spot once things get going, and they're all in the same spot in each furnace section.

I've also noticed the supply train doesn't pull all the way up when refilling since it stops at the Depot spot and waits there. It doesn't seem to use the next station for more than a second or two. I 'fixed' it by just having the chests line up with the depot station, so there's a smaller chance that the train runs out of the things that don't line up with the cars even though the chests are full of them.

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Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by nuhll » Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:39 pm

It would be cool if this could be used in a "non gamebreaking" way.

I like factorio, but i dont think its fun to do the 18312938. mine Outpost manually.

It would be cool if there would be a way to use this on our own maps and only build Tracks to zones which actual have the resources which are needed. Maybe in some sort of a mod!?

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Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by Beeskee » Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:42 am

My base got pretty big but then crashed. XD

Image

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Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by suprnova74 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:51 am

I wonder if you reached a max number of train stops that the game can handle

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Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by WarmCat » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:04 am

I tried this yesterday, got it up and running on my laptop and then turned up the game speed. Factory self-replication was in overdrive.
Went downstairs for a coffee and got distracted. When I came back up, factorio had taken over my computer; running multiple instances of itself.
I thought, "thats cool" and went to bed as I was tired.
The next morning I woke up to find not one laptop, but three! I was running late for work, so I dashed out of the house still a little confused.
When I got back home this evening, I pulled up on to the driveway of my houses... what!? I now have eight houses!!

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Re: GreyGoo Mk I: A self-expanding factory

Post by JohnyDL » Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:33 pm

pics https://imgur.com/a/Ys10a

Having been messing with a slightly larger grid system myself (inspired by you see pic 1: grid unit) it's effectively 2 roboports wide with complete almost construction coverage (it can't clear trees to place some roboports) but it doesn't have total logistical coverage (I want to limit my logistics bot usage on this world also I know I've overdone it with radar XD but I wanted it totally rotationally symmetric), anyway having tried out a bunch of things myself I think you over do the signaling on your junctions this allows a lot more opportunities for rails to gridlock than are necessary, by having it with fewer signals rather than getting partially trapped inside junctions trains can keep them clear and reroute easier. (pic 2: all the necessary signals in my junctions (just 8))

Secondly the way your depot allows entry from a different side than it exits also provides more opportunities than necessary for gridlock (it can be manufactured with just 9 ore trains). By taking from one side and outputting on the opposite side there's a limited buffer for waiting trains in the worst case when the depot is full and three new trains wait at that first junction only one train needs to now come in and wait effectively over the output of the depot to generate a gridlock.

Solution If you have both input and output on the same side of a cell like with the ore stations and prevent any waiting trains on that side you should never get block ups, however many incoming trains there are, there should always a free outgoing path, if I'm wrong though it should take between 31 and 35 trains before the exit junction is even limited to just one outgoing path but the way the rails fill up with waiting trains to block all those outgoing paths it would require some of the trains to give up their position in the queue for the depot something that just doesn't happen in my experience, I've actually seen trains reroute to attempt to queue jump instead. If you wanted to test this idea you could send a stream of trains to any of the ore stations and you should see that they won't get clogged up (provided the signals there are cleaned up a little on mine I limit it to what you can see in pic 3: ore station outgoing signals to junction)

Finally for now my thoughts on making it so it's more and more grey goo than wall-e working alone to build an empire. The pic assumes you keep starting with a 3x3 grid of cells for your start and head to that same first cell moving counter-clockwise around the formatted area, but instead every cell your main agent conquers is turned into a controller for a new scout agent (and only that unit makes extra units while ignoring ore and other resources) the way it would end up spreading would look like pic 4 (this is approx 128 iterations over 8,000 cells in size) I think it looks pretty cool. As for what the colours mean:
  • Black the origin cells
    Grey being cells created by main agent each containing its own controller unit with its own 'attached' scout (which followed the coloured trace from initial deployment point)
    Multi Colors being the paths taken by the new scouts (initial deployment point is the end of line next to grey, that single grey is its controller)
growth sequence
Here's the partial pseudo code for movement and deployment of blueprints that I worked on to generate that map (I'm partially inspired by langton's ant so the origin cell of each agent is tracked as each direction is relative to that and the movement sequence is controlled centrally while the individual agents can do their own processing for the stuff marked out):

Code: Select all

while complete signal count = total agents count
  for main unit
    turn off complete signal
    detect left
    if empty = true
      move left
      launch scout ahead // always free unless something has gone wrong
    else //left filled
      move ahead // always free unless something has gone wrong
      launch scout right // always free unless something has gone wrong because this is processed before scouts, if scouts was processed first this would break
    // in agent, the movement control loop can move onto scouts
    detect supplies
    if supplies = low
      resupply()
    deploy control unit
    prepare scout ()
    send complete signal
    agent wait
  //movement loop picks up here
  for each [unmoved this loop/waiting] scout (youngest to oldest) in scouts[]
    turn off complete signal
    detect left
    if empty = true
      move left
    else //left is filled
      move ahead // always free unless something has gone wrong
    // in agent, movement control loop can move onto next scout or wait to be run again when all agents are waiting
    detect supplies
    if supplies = low
      resupply()
    detect ores, oil, electric
    if ore = true
      deploy miners
    else if oil = true
      deploy oil
    else if electric = low
      deploy solar
    else
      deploy next factory cell from factory blueprints book //these are where supplies are made for the ever growing supply needs
    send complete signal
    agent wait
  add new scout to scouts[] [as youngest]
loop
More ideas to come but yeah hope this helps in some way

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