Early Building Store

[brunzenstein]

Just hit a major problem with the patch. There is no curved rail option. I found some coal under a forest closeby to the Northwest and plenty of iron close to that. Unfortunately I can't hook the rail up.

I even tried shut game down, open up game with curved rail - it's not there

Just drag a straight rail line in any direction and the curve comes by itself. See: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=27867&p=176738#p176738

[Dry Hairy Tree]

Yeah thank you. Someone showed me elsewhere and I worked it out eventually


I found some coal under more forest to the northeast, so I automated some mining drills and chopped the forest down while they crafted. The coal makes early smelting of the iron patch there a lot easier, no electric furnace or train/belt coal transport required. Coupled with the convenient water I even threw in local power. It's close to my base so I'll link them up together. About to expand this, contemplate onsite steel, and more trains, so far, this is it for rail, the new rail is pretty cool.

I got 1000 rail in a box so now I'm boxing stone for landfill (did a bit above and more to go) and steel for whatever. Could easily have made double the ammo no way i'd use rail as fast as it was made. Certainly not while i got my new patch trainer wheels on. We Live & Learn.

Even further to the northeast I've discovered what looks like 17 derrick sites for oil. Texas Tea!

[Qon]

Just hit a major problem with the patch. There is no curved rail option. I found some coal under a forest closeby to the Northwest and plenty of iron close to that. Unfortunately I can't hook the rail up.

I even tried shut game down, open up game with curved rail - it's not there

You don't need curved rail pieces any more: http://guide.factorio.com/new-features-013.html
Edit: Ok you know now.

Your factory looks pretty good. I would reach the steel with long handed inserters though so that I could place the assembly machines closer to eachther. With an underground belt giving space for it it's doable.
Why are you splitting and merging the steel/stone belt?

[keleios]

Wow Qon, wasn't really looking for a critique, but yes, it won't last. It isn't meant to.

This was largely an experiment to see if I could make a clean pattern for early game components.. something to build the main factory that fits in a pretty small place. It was not made as a result of this thread, it was made independently which is why I got a kick out of the thread when I stumbled on it. The area this was built in did not have a lot of space and the design reflects that a bit. Also I'm legitimately early game here, I don't even have oil yet. Another way this is useful, at least it was to me, was that it fit in an irregular shape better, you just make shorter or longer legs where you have room. The brown area to the south west was originally water. On the flip side, it has a lot of splitters & underground belts which is annoying for a quick base.

The design I like the best so far is Breith's though I'd like to see it rigged with green sci. Looks like plenty of space but still curious.

The point of sharing in this section, at least for me, is not to tell people how to do everything but simply share ideas.

[Qon]

Wow Qon, wasn't really looking for a critique, but yes, it won't last. It isn't meant to.

The point of sharing in this section, at least for me, is not to tell people how to do everything but simply share ideas.

Well I'm sure it works well enough in early game. It was an intresting pattern to look at, at least. You can take my advice or ignore it if you prefer that. I'm just trying to help
Thanks for sharing anyways.

[Dry Hairy Tree]

The steel/stone is to bring rail right up where I want it (in the store, by a station) - but also - the new landfill option takes 10 stone a square - so I want stone on tap too. Saves having two lines. The games changed significantly in this patch just improvising. Glad i got the stone it made my new smelt areas tidyness doable via a few well placed landfills.

The trains kick butt. Here's my first train. It is not connected to a circuit network, but a train network... It's instructions (so far) are to wait at the iron patch till it has 4K iron plate (and subsequently close to 2K steel) then to come to the building store and wait a minute, then go back to the iron. There's all sorts of conditions for trains now, it's a game changer. I've hooked the line round where a circuit factory will go, (other side of my massive starting copper), so the iron will get dropped there when it's ready, the station at the building store will be to drop off other stuff but also iron and steel should I want some.

Research seems slower at least the oil lines but that's ok they seemed fast before.

[Dry Hairy Tree]

And here's that smelting patch tidied up a bit. By limiting/assigning train cargo slots, box slots, using filter inserters etc, I can make a very complex system that works tailored to what I'm telling it to do. It's not perfect but combinators etc look overly complex for what people are doing in many cases (and rather cool in some respects). Sooner or later there'll be all manner of circuits, plastic, batteries, modules etc sent around by rail to where they're wanted.

Yes, I know my stations suck because I lack 27 splitters in a pattern reminiscent of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. This is more resources than i know what to do with for now. Time to go take a look around that oil patch.

[Dry Hairy Tree]

So I visited the oil. A real thick forest but uncovered a couple of spots for derricks. There was coal nearby again so I made a refinery and some plastic (one chemical plant) just to get the ball rolling on some red circuits. I'm going to triple the plastic and it should make enough red circuits (via modules etc) for a rocket an hour - I think... good enough.

I fired 1000 plastic in the system below to see how it ran and red circuits came out at around 3.75 per second as expected. Sweet. Numbers of assemblers aint perfect, but should be close. There should be one more mining drill and one more smelter on copper for this too (currently 12 of each).

The train doesn't need any signals or anything right now, just orders at each station. I've told it to leave the iron (station) when it has 2K, to leave the plastic when it has 200 (will ramp this up to 500), and to leave the circuits when it has 0 plastic. So easy. I'll add another stop by the labs and it can leave there when it has 0 red circuits.

The inserters unloading iron and plastic are in the ratio of the overall machines recipe for plastic and iron (9:6 or 3:2). But I also screwed the design up. 1/3 of the green circuits are meant to be siphoned off for personal use and towards modules. Got to fix that. I don't want to bleed it off the end as iron and copper are both in excess I'll get too many green till I've got plastic flowing faster.

Those new stack inserters will make this type of play way more effective. I've got red circuits now, could test some out. So many things to try...

[Dry Hairy Tree]

Been doing a lot of things...

If I walk through the train route it might give the gist of most of it.

The train starts by picking up the steel and iron plate. It also refuels with coal at the iron. It goes to the oil patch (12/17 derricks now running) and drops off empty oil barrels, and picks up full oil barrels and plastic. It goes to the circuit factory and drops off plastic and iron plate, and picks up red (and soon to be fixed green) circuits. It goes to the science drop off point and drops off steel, circuits and full barrels. It picks up empty barrels and continues on to the steel/iron plate stop for another round.

Also got my blue science set up and running. This bled the resources badly I could upgrade the copper but the iron had been tapped in potential from the start. I can fix it now I have a good steel supply, bit of finangling with the building store line to keep it running can be seen - only while things get fixed. First issue and I knew it was an issue immediately (no steel, or put another way, not enough iron). To solve this problem I found some more.

Building store seems ignored but it has made many things easy for me. I treat it bad and take all it's stuff.

[Dry Hairy Tree]

Blue circuits. These are almost always limited by green circuits (20 each ouch), so their production can also be set by them.

Here I'm only making 30 blue circuits every 2 minutes - or 900 per hour. Set by the train delivering 600 green circuits every 2 minutes. I can get this up to 64 per minute with the 8 assemblers (have to switch inserters to fast inserters) simply by supplying more green circuits. Red are in excess but some will be used in modules shortly.

Solar and accumulators are building at the store now. The original iron is almost tapped out. The original stone is gone but the big patch is barely touched. Priorities are to secure iron plate for science and building, and then ramp up circuits -> modules. There is so much to do and explore here, both in the new patch, and solving issues within the terrain itself. I need to assign priorities or I get sidetracked.

I scored some lubricant for the not-so-ugly aliens, and some sulfuric acid - for when you just can't wash it off.

[Dry Hairy Tree]

And here's the plastic production after advanced oil production. If you have a little overkill in your supply it is not a problem. It will merely make your supply last longer. If the plastic backs up it will back up here, the chemical plants will slow down/stop - no problem at all it's resources on tap... In the future barrels can be shipped in when this supply runs low.

The train has instructions to leave when it has a specific amount of plastic and ultimately the production of red circuits is regulated by this command.

The new preview window to watch the trains is fantastic. You can switch to camera view and zoom out to ensure all factory components your train visits are functioning - while you are somewhere else. Very cool. I can sit at the building store and decide I want more green circuits now, tell the train to pick up more (provided they're available) and it is done.

My building store only provides pipes, steel and bricks for the oil stage of the game. With these I build what I want (pumpjacks, refineries etc) as I head to where I am going to build oil related facilities. If you find you have, and want to realise, massive oil resources, set your building store up to make the infrastructure you'll need, go chop a forest or kill some aliens, then Go LARGE.

Yes, this is a medium plastic facility.

[Dry Hairy Tree]

Here's the iron solution. The train has instructions to leave and get more iron when it is empty. The boxes are set to 5 slots each so there is a 3K buffer of iron before it gums up, and the train stops. The train will thus only work when it is required to but with a significant buffer in the system so it gets back before the lines empty. Iron is bled off to both science and production. Prior lines are restored as they were so the original iron is all used up - and some upgrading occured just to make space to run new lines in.

This iron input can be upgraded in many ways. Belt types, inserter types, more cargo wagons etc. The thing with having upgraded everything, I don't need it at all. The new inserter stack bonuses sometimes apply to all inserters so those plain inserters now work two at a time and fast inserters go fast with two at a time - and I've still got inserter bonuses to go only taken two so far I think.

I've thrown up a couple of hundred solar panels and chewed through some robot research. I've put a passing lane round every station except this one as the other train doesn't use it. All I gotta do now is pump up the green circuits production, keep an eye on oil (found another massive patch) and work through research/modules etc into rocketry. Some concrete to be made, a bit of housekeeping...

I might get construction bots to help with solar, no logistics bots for now at least, trains and building store is my logistics network.

[Dry Hairy Tree]

So now the speed modules have begun. I am pretty much ready for some rocket preparation I could load a train with most components and make it happen pretty fast - but research is not near there yet. 4 rocket speed researches or whatever they're called plus the module 3 research and the rocket silo itself.

Robot frames are automated but I manually load the engines across it's easy to control and I get what I want.

Ironically, the only thing I'm not really ready to just pour into the rocket project is copper. But my starting patch is not tapped out by a long shot.

Time to kill off more critters for alien science.

[Dry Hairy Tree]

And there it is. Prepped and ready. Rockin out on yellow belts, plain inserters and blue assemblers just like I made em wayyyyy back. Just waiting for the last research. 8 assemblers each: Rocket Control Units, Fuel, & Low Density Structures. Rocket Silo parts in a crate. You can build a rocket in just under an hour with these numbers and basic speed modules. To do a rocket an hour consistently just supply these lines consistently: 1000 speed modules, 1000 blue circuits, 10 000 steel, 5000 plastic, 5000 copper and 10 000 solid fuel.

It's not rocket science

The building store has been useful the whole time. Always another mining drill, assembler or inserter on hand, always able to run out belts and rails to facilitate plans and fix problems. There is no perfect way to do it set some goals, break them down, and make it happen.

My plastic would not support a rocket per hour for long (only 3.5K per hour currently) those derricks are running down but I have crates full as it backed up as predicted - and there's always more to be had on an infinite world. I really like the ion cannon mod - that might make multiple rocket launches a bit more useful and fun for games.

All up I think there's about 20 red belt segments on the map. can you find them?

[Qon]

With my building store I abandoned basic inserters as soon as I got fast ones automated, they are cheap enough. Automated red belts and replaced all my basic belts as soon as I could too. In my first game I basically only used basic belts and inserters, but now I know better.

[Dry Hairy Tree]

Yea man, do it like you want it, I'll upgrade if/when I want there's no rule - the obsession round here with throughput is a bit silly.

IMO, upgrading something that doesn't actually need it for the throughput is a waste of time and resources. But that's me. There's nothing on that map that needs a blue belt, nothing.

But, like I said, make it do what you want, it's not a regimen it's a play-enhancement. Mining drills full of modules surrounded by beacons... lame. Get another ore patch.

[Qon]

Yea man, do it like you want it, I'll upgrade if/when I want there's no rule - the obsession round here with throughput is a bit silly.

IMO, upgrading something that doesn't actually need it for the throughput is a waste of time and resources. But that's me. There's nothing on that map that needs a blue belt, nothing.

But, like I said, make it do what you want, it's not a regimen it's a play-enhancement. Mining drills full of modules surrounded by beacons... lame. Get another ore patch.

No you misunderstand. The reason I abandon basic inserters and yellow belts in the early game is because I only have to carry and use one type then. Sure for late game it's good for throughput, but some things even in early game require faster versions and by eliminating basic ones you get rid of some boring problems like running out of fast inserters when you need them while carrying basic ones that are useles at the moment. Makes inventory management simpler. Red belts require a lot of gears and can be limited by inserter speed while you need a lot of them. Gears and coils are crafted really quickly and can can get thoughput problems easily. So I use fast inserters everywhere and don't have to deal with things going pointlessly slow. Super high throughput isn't the point, it's just to keep it fast enough that you don't have to wait for it because the machines are idling most of the time.

[Kelderek]

No you misunderstand. The reason I abandon basic inserters and yellow belts in the early game is because I only have to carry and use one type then. Sure for late game it's good for throughput, but some things even in early game require faster versions and by eliminating basic ones you get rid of some boring problems like running out of fast inserters when you need them while carrying basic ones that are useles at the moment. Makes inventory management simpler. Red belts require a lot of gears and can be limited by inserter speed while you need a lot of them. Gears and coils are crafted really quickly and can can get thoughput problems easily. So I use fast inserters everywhere and don't have to deal with things going pointlessly slow. Super high throughput isn't the point, it's just to keep it fast enough that you don't have to wait for it because the machines are idling most of the time.

Be aware that there is a power cost associated with that choice. If you eschew the use of regular inserters entirely, there will be a number of places where you are wasting electricity by using the fast ones. Assembly machine recipes such as science packs output so slowly that a regular inserter is more than enough.

[Qon]

Be aware that there is a power cost associated with that choice. If you eschew the use of regular inserters entirely, there will be a number of places where you are wasting electricity by using the fast ones. Assembly machine recipes such as science packs output so slowly that a regular inserter is more than enough.

False. Both inserters have the same drain. Fast inserters are about 3 times faster and requires about 3 times more energy while in use per second. So energy per insert is the same for both. And by decreasing the idle time of machines you eliminate wasted idle time for both inserter and machine, meaning that your energy goes down per item produced if your throughput is limited by inserter speed. So fast inserters only have the rather insignificant extra production cost as drawback. And a good building store produces them far quicker than you need them.

[siggboy]

IMO, upgrading something that doesn't actually need it for the throughput is a waste of time and resources. But that's me. There's nothing on that map that needs a blue belt, nothing.

Having to carry only one type of belt/splitter and one type of inserters is way more convenient than having everything in 3 different colors -- and then you're always short of the "right" color that you need at that moment.

In late game I make everything blue and fast, no matter if I need it or not, simply for reason above.