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logistics bot "megabase"

Posted: Mon May 09, 2016 10:57 pm
by vanatteveldt
I decided to stop worrying and embrace logistic bots and solar panels to create a "megabase", i.e. a base aimed at end-game high-volume production. I'm not quite satisfied (are we ever?), but I wanted to share some screenshots with the community.
map
base overview
unloading
smelting
control panel
manufacturing
general manufacturing
refinery and fluids
power
production statistics

Re: logistics bot "megabase"

Posted: Thu May 19, 2016 5:07 am
by ElPresidente
Amazing!

I really want to get something similar done.
I would be keen to see what are the limits in terms of max number of bots

are you using any mods for your bots or all vanilla?

Re: logistics bot "megabase"

Posted: Thu May 19, 2016 6:59 am
by vanatteveldt
@ElPresidente: thanks!

I actually use a number of mods, but the only one that really matters (I think) is RSO:

Code: Select all

Convenience / interface:
            "name": "color-coding",
            "name": "EvoGUI",
            "name": "expanded_tools",
            "name": "Foreman",
            "name": "InitialScan",
            "name": "launch-control",

Trains / resources:
            "name": "FARL",
            "name": "rso-mod",
            "name": "SmartTrains",
            "name": "STRS",

Other:
            "name": "Landfill",
            "name": "Orbital Ion Cannon",
            "name": "underground-mining",
            "name": "YARM",

Re: logistics bot "megabase"

Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 7:44 pm
by AutoMcD
I don't mean to sidetrack but how do you get that production statistics screen? I'm a few hundred hours in and never noticed that! :lol:

Re: logistics bot "megabase"

Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 10:15 pm
by vanatteveldt
Well, there's not a lot of discussion here to sidetrack :).

The production screen is opened by pressing 'p'. Unfortunately, you can't filter on anything, so it is only useful to see the high volume items like plates and circuits.

Re: logistics bot "megabase"

Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 12:34 pm
by Shokubai
AutoMcD wrote:I don't mean to sidetrack but how do you get that production statistics screen? I'm a few hundred hours in and never noticed that! :lol:
Today's lesson brought to you by the letter "P".
Image

Re: logistics bot "megabase"

Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 8:17 am
by DutchJer
for the reds, you could add beacons on the outside, so they run faster :P

Re: logistics bot "megabase"

Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 3:41 pm
by aklesey1
Lamp with colors? Is this mod?

Re: logistics bot "megabase"

Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 2:16 am
by Qon
1 rocket isn't mega. Energy usage is still low. Production stats is about 10% of a rocket per minute. It's just an average sized base really.

But what's there is nice. Some creative layouts and stuff.
ElPresidente wrote: I would be keen to see what are the limits in terms of max number of bots
They are only limited by the number (and layout to a degree) of roboports.

Re: logistics bot "megabase"

Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 7:35 pm
by vanatteveldt
Well it was big for me :)

Anyway, I've just walled off quite a large chunk of territory, so I will be expanding the base. How do people with really big bases deal with the tedium of outpost building, even with very large deposits?

Re: logistics bot "megabase"

Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 10:18 pm
by Qon
vanatteveldt wrote:Well it was big for me :)

Anyway, I've just walled off quite a large chunk of territory, so I will be expanding the base. How do people with really big bases deal with the tedium of outpost building, even with very large deposits?
Well your base will always be the biggest you have ever seen, until you take a look at some of the experts bases. For massive bases you need superstructures that are blueprintable and can be stamped all over the place with trains running between. Or make you whole base blueprintable and then expand by copying all of it at once over and over.

For massive expansion and territorial control I use Orbital Ion cannon. I made an update for it so that it can auto target natives and not just bases, so you can use it for defense also: viewtopic.php?f=93&t=17910&start=100#p161661
Since it kills enemies before they get in range to hurt your auto targeter it needs no repairs or maintenance. Requires you to send maybe hundred rockets with ion cannons for it to be reliable though or they will be on cooldown when needed. q:

A hundred destroyer drones following you around is also useful for killing bases if you want to use vanilla stuff.

Re: logistics bot "megabase"

Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 9:53 am
by vanatteveldt
Thanks for the tips.

I do actually use ion cannons for expansion, although I didn't use the autotargetter yet so I clear out manually and then build walls.

I blueprint everything, and using bots instead of belts make that a lot easier. But as far as I know building new mining outposts always requires manual steps: drive the FARL to it, blueprint-build a junction, blueprint-build the return loop, blueprint-build the station, blueprint-build the mines N times to cover the field, add robots to the roboports, create a new "smart" train route, assign trains to the route. This takes me a couple minutes.

Asumming that a "true" megabase is at least 10 times bigger, it will consume 100k ore per minute. My ore fields seem to be around 1M large, so I would need to build a new outpost every 10 minutes. Assuming it takes me at least three minutes to build a new outpost, that would mean I'm spending 30% of my time repetitively building outpost just to keep the factory running. That sounds to me more like work than a game. Perhaps I should start over with the "Insane Resources" mod.

Is there an easy way to e.g. multiply all current ore tiles by 10x or 100x?

Re: logistics bot "megabase"

Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 4:22 pm
by Shokubai
Actually JGGames did a little command console tutorial on this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhQkaJkxVB8
Though there are mods as well.

Re: logistics bot "megabase"

Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 5:42 pm
by Qon
vanatteveldt wrote: Asumming that a "true" megabase is at least 10 times bigger, it will consume 100k ore per minute. My ore fields seem to be around 1M large, so I would need to build a new outpost every 10 minutes. Assuming it takes me at least three minutes to build a new outpost, that would mean I'm spending 30% of my time repetitively building outpost just to keep the factory running. That sounds to me more like work than a game. Perhaps I should start over with the "Insane Resources" mod.

Is there an easy way to e.g. multiply all current ore tiles by 10x or 100x?
You can use productivity modules. Then you need much less ore. A rocket then takes 25k iron ore and 12.5k copper ore. Also use mods like RSO that gives deeper ore pockets further from the base or any other cheat mod. I'm using enless patches + fusion power drills (extremely fast) atm but will switch to finite when I'm ready to rebuild my base and build my train network.

Re: logistics bot "megabase"

Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 6:54 pm
by vanatteveldt
@Shokubai: thanks for the link. I'm probably getting old that I'd prefer a good old text post above a youtube vid :). Also, from a quick skim what he does is create new extremely large resource fields, where what I'd ideally do is just multiply the amount of resources in my current tiles by 100x, i.e. limit throughput by # of outposts but without the need to create new outposts every 10 minutes...

@Qon:As you can read in my first post, there are productivity modules in my whole chain, aided by speed beacons. A rocket part costs 10 each of structure, fuel, and control unit. In total, this costs 890 iron, 775 copper, 190 plastic, 100 solid fuel (and a negligable amount of sulphuric acid). Back-of-the-envelop that means 1.5k resources and .4k crude per rocket part, or 150k resources and 40k crude per rocket. Even with stacked productivity modules, I will still need around 50k ore per rocket, which means that if I want to launch a rocket per minute with outposts of 1M ore I need a new outpost every 20 minutes...

Re: logistics bot "megabase"

Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 7:41 pm
by Shokubai
vanatteveldt wrote:@Shokubai: thanks for the link. I'm probably getting old that I'd prefer a good old text post above a youtube vid :). Also, from a quick skim what he does is create new extremely large resource fields, where what I'd ideally do is just multiply the amount of resources in my current tiles by 100x, i.e. limit throughput by # of outposts but without the need to create new outposts every 10 minutes...

@Qon:As you can read in my first post, there are productivity modules in my whole chain, aided by speed beacons. A rocket part costs 10 each of structure, fuel, and control unit. In total, this costs 890 iron, 775 copper, 190 plastic, 100 solid fuel (and a negligable amount of sulphuric acid). Back-of-the-envelop that means 1.5k resources and .4k crude per rocket part, or 150k resources and 40k crude per rocket. Even with stacked productivity modules, I will still need around 50k ore per rocket, which means that if I want to launch a rocket per minute with outposts of 1M ore I need a new outpost every 20 minutes...
The same guy makes a mod called Insane Resources which makes normalish ore deposits that are extra large and 10's of thousand per tile. This might servre your needs.

Re: logistics bot "megabase"

Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 8:16 pm
by Qon
vanatteveldt wrote:@Shokubai: thanks for the link. I'm probably getting old that I'd prefer a good old text post above a youtube vid :). Also, from a quick skim what he does is create new extremely large resource fields, where what I'd ideally do is just multiply the amount of resources in my current tiles by 100x, i.e. limit throughput by # of outposts but without the need to create new outposts every 10 minutes...

@Qon:As you can read in my first post, there are productivity modules in my whole chain, aided by speed beacons. A rocket part costs 10 each of structure, fuel, and control unit. In total, this costs 890 iron, 775 copper, 190 plastic, 100 solid fuel (and a negligable amount of sulphuric acid). Back-of-the-envelop that means 1.5k resources and .4k crude per rocket part, or 150k resources and 40k crude per rocket. Even with stacked productivity modules, I will still need around 50k ore per rocket, which means that if I want to launch a rocket per minute with outposts of 1M ore I need a new outpost every 20 minutes...
A rocket needs ~7 of each. You really, really, really need to use productivity modules in your rocket silo! :o
You forgot the most important part of the chain.

I don't know why you gave me your back-of-the-envelope calculation after I just gave you properly calculated numbers in the post you answered to. That is ore used in the factory. If you also use productivity in your miners you use 30%~ less than that from ore deposits. It's also not including the satellite though, since you might want to send something else up into orbit.
It's the most important place to put them. Productivity modules are more beneficial towards the end of the production chain you use them. And for the rocket parts you also need productivity modules.

Re: logistics bot "megabase"

Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 10:03 pm
by vanatteveldt
Qon wrote:[
A rocket needs ~7 of each. You really, really, really need to use productivity modules in your rocket silo! :o
You forgot the most important part of the chain.

I don't know why you gave me your back-of-the-envelope calculation after I just gave you properly calculated numbers in the post you answered to. That is ore used in the factory. If you also use productivity in your miners you use 30%~ less than that from ore deposits. It's also not including the satellite though, since you might want to send something else up into orbit.
It's the most important place to put them. Productivity modules are more beneficial towards the end of the production chain you use them. And for the rocket parts you also need productivity modules.
Sorry, I guess I replied to you too quickly. As you didn't give any source or calculation for your numbers I didn't know they were based on actual calculation. As I said, I have productivity everywhere in the chain, including the rocket silo (but excluding the miners, as it seems too much work as they can't be blueprinted).

Anyway, I'll accept the challenge of getting up to 40k ore per minute and see how far I get :). With a crafting speed of 9.4 on smelters, that should take about 140 smelters for the raw processing, so I guess around 200-300 including steel, so that's not too far from my current setup. Check here for updates :)

BTW, is there a calculator that includes productivity modules or a list of what you need to keep a single rocket platform fully supplied, assuming e.g. 2 beacons per plant?

Re: logistics bot "megabase"

Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 2:06 am
by Qon
vanatteveldt wrote: BTW, is there a calculator that includes productivity modules or a list of what you need to keep a single rocket platform fully supplied, assuming e.g. 2 beacons per plant?
I did my calculations in a text editor. Sometimes I use spreadsheets or code. Foreman is a useful tool (not talking about the mod) but it has it's limits (it supports mods becasue it reads recipies from your factorio folder but can fail on complicated interleaving and looping chains that some mods produce), don't know if it supports productivity modules.

I have a list of what is needed for a rocket. It's not really complete (doesn't tell how much crude you need but says how much light and gas you need becasue I haven't decided how I will get those yet) but it tells you how much of pretty much everything needed. It's meant as notes for me though...
Look for "Rocket total" if you just want the total and not the complete breakdown for every chain.

Code: Select all

Rocket: 100/1.4 = 71.4 rocket parts
rocket part: 10/1.4 = 7.1 rocket fuel, RCU, LDS
LDS: 10/1.4 steel plate, 5/1.4 copper n plastic
rocket fuel: 10/1.4 solid fuel
RCU: 1 PU, 1 SM1
PU: 20 EC, 2 AC, 0.5 SA
AC: 2 EC, 2 PB, 4 CC
EC: 1 IP, 3 CC
2 PB: 1 C, 3 PG
SM: 5 AC, 5 EC

Rocket: 1.0 {
  Rocket part: 100.0 {
    LDS: 714.2857142857143 {
      Steel plate: 5102.040816326531 {
        Iron plate: 21258.503401360547
      }
      Copper plate: 2551.0204081632655 {
        Copper ore: 2125.850340136055
      }
      Plastic bar: 2551.0204081632655 {
        Coal: 1062.9251700680275
        Petrol: 3188.775510204082
      }
    }
    Rocket fuel: 714.2857142857143 {
      Solid fuel: 5102.040816326531 {
        Light oil: 4251.70068027211
      }
    }
    RCU: 714.2857142857143 {
      Processing Unit: 510.20408163265313 {
        Electronic circuit: 7288.629737609331 {
          Iron plate: 5206.164098292379
          Copper cable: 15618.492294877138 {
            Copper plate: 5578.032962456121
          }
        }
        Advanced circuit: 728.8629737609331 {
          Electronic circuit: 1041.2328196584758 {
            Iron plate: 743.7377283274827
            Copper cable: 2231.213184982448 {
              Copper plate: 796.8618517794458
            }
          }
          Plastic bar: 1041.2328196584758 {
            Coal: 433.84700819103165
            Petrol: 1301.5410245730948
          }
          Copper cable: 2082.4656393169516 {
            Copper plate: 743.7377283274827
          }
        }
        Sulfuric acid: 182.21574344023327 {
          Sulfur: 151.84645286686109 {
            Petrol: 189.8080660835764
            Water: 189.8080660835764
          }
          Iron plate: 138.88888888888889
          Water: 1388.888888888889
        }
      }
      Speed module 1: 510.20408163265313 {
        Advanced circuit: 1822.1574344023327 {
          Electronic circuit: 2603.0820491461895 {
            Iron plate: 1859.3443208187068
            Copper cable: 5578.03296245612 {
              Copper plate: 1992.1546294486145
            }
          }
          Plastic bar: 2603.0820491461895 {
            Coal: 1084.617520477579
            Petrol: 3253.852561432737
          }
          Copper cable: 5206.164098292379 {
            Copper plate: 1859.3443208187068
          }
        }
        Electronic circuit: 1822.1574344023325 {
          Iron plate: 1301.5410245730948
          Copper cable: 3904.6230737192836 {
            Copper plate: 1394.50824061403
          }
        }
      }
    }
  }
  Satellite: 1.0 {
    LDS: 100.0 {
      Steel plate: 714.2857142857142 {
        Iron plate: 2976.190476190476
      }
      Copper plate: 357.1428571428571
      Plastic bar: 357.1428571428571 {
        Coal: 148.80952380952382
        Petrol: 446.42857142857144
      }
    }
    Rocket fuel: 50.0 {
      Solid fuel: 357.1428571428571 {
        Light oil: 297.61904761904765
      }
    }
    Processing Unit: 100.0 {
      Electronic circuit: 1428.5714285714287 {
        Iron plate: 1020.4081632653061
        Copper cable: 3061.2244897959185 {
          Copper plate: 1093.2944606413996
        }
      }
      Advanced circuit: 142.85714285714286 {
        Electronic circuit: 204.08163265306123 {
          Iron plate: 145.7725947521866
          Copper cable: 437.3177842565598 {
            Copper plate: 156.18492294877137
          }
        }
        Plastic bar: 204.08163265306123 {
          Coal: 85.0340136054422
          Petrol: 255.10204081632654
        }
        Copper cable: 408.16326530612247 {
          Copper plate: 145.7725947521866
        }
      }
      Sulfuric acid: 35.714285714285715 {
        Sulfur: 29.76190476190477 {
          Petrol: 37.20238095238097
          Water: 37.20238095238097
        }
        Iron plate: 138.88888888888889
        Water: 1388.888888888889
      }
    }
    Solar panel: 100.0 {
      Steel plate: 500.0 {
        Iron plate: 2083.3333333333335
      }
      Electronic circuit: 1500.0 {
        Iron plate: 1071.4285714285713
        Copper cable: 3214.285714285714 {
          Copper plate: 1147.9591836734696
        }
      }
      Copper plate: 500.0
    }
    Accumulator: 100.0 {
      Iron plate: 200.0
      Battery: 500.0 {
        Iron plate: 416.6666666666667
        Copper plate: 416.6666666666667
        Sulfuric acid: 833.3333333333334 {
          Sulfur: 694.4444444444446 {
            Petrol: 868.0555555555559
            Water: 868.0555555555559
          }
          Iron plate: 138.88888888888889
          Water: 1388.888888888889
        }
      }
    }
    Radar: 5.0 {
      Electronic circuit: 25.0 {}
      Iron gear wheel: 25.0 {
        Iron plate: 35.714285714285715
      }
      Iron plate: 50.0
    }
  }
}


// steel_plate*5=25510.204081632655
Rocket total: 1 { 
  LDS: 714.2857142857143
  RCU: 714.2857142857143
  Rocket fuel: 714.2857142857143 {
    Solid fuel: 5102.040816326531 {
      Light oil: 4251.70068027211
    }
  }
  Processing Unit: 510.20408163265313 {
    Sulfuric acid: 182.21574344023327 {
      Sulfur: 151.84645286686109
    }
  }
  Advanced circuit: 2551.0204081632655
  Electronic circuit: 12755.102040816328
  Plastic bar: 6195.335276967931 {
    Coal: 2581.3896987366384
    Petrol: 7744.169096209914
  }
  Speed module 1: 510.20408163265313
  Steel plate: 5102.040816326531
  Iron plate: 30369.29057337221
  Copper cable: 34620.991253644315
  Copper plate: 14915.660141607666
  Water: 1578.6969549724654
}

Rocket assemblers: 63/60 silos {
  LDS: 46.3821892393321
  RCU: 46.3821892393321
  Rocket fuel: 46.3821892393321 {
    Solid fuel: 38.651824366110084 (energy 3, double check speed. should work without spaces) {
      --Light oil: 4251.70068027211/1.2/60/speed*time (in refinery?)
    }
  }
  Processing Unit: 16.565067585475752 {
    --Sulfuric acid: 182.21574344023327 {
      --Sulfur: 151.84645286686109
    }
  }
  Advanced circuit: 44.17351356126867
  Electronic circuit: 13.804222987896459
  Plastic bar: 6195.335276967931/60/5.5/2*speed/1.2 {
    --Coal: 2581.3896987366384
    --Petrol: 7744.169096209914
  }
  Speed module 1: 14.57725947521866
  --Steel plate: 5102.040816326531
  --Iron plate: 30369.29057337221
  Copper cable: 18.73430262643091
  --Copper plate: 14915.660141607666
  --Water: 1578.6969549724654
}

Satellite total: 1 {
  LDS: 100.0
  Rocket fuel: 50.0 {
    Solid fuel: 357.1428571428571 {
      Light oil: 297.61904761904765
    }
  }
  Processing Unit: 100.0
  Sulfuric acid: 869.047619047619
  Sulfur: 724.2063492063494
  Advanced circuit: 142.85714285714286
  Electronic circuit: 3157.6530612244896
  Plastic bar: 561.2244897959183 {
    Coal: 233.843537414966
    Petrol: 701.5306122448978
  }
  Steel plate: 1214.2857142857142
  Iron plate: 8277.291869128605
  Copper cable: 7120.991253644315
  Copper plate: 3817.020685825351
  Battery: 500.0
  Accumulator: 100.0
  Solar panel: 100.0
  Radar: 5.0 {
    Iron gear wheel: 25.0
  }
  Water: 3683.0357142857147
}

Total total: {
  LDS: 814.2857142857143
  Processing units: 15/60/1.4/5.5*(510.20408163265313+100.0) = 19.811820832229
  Advanced circuit: 8/60/1.4/5.5*(2551.0204081632655+142.85714285714286) = 46.647230320699705
  
}
The rocket parts and satellite is fully calulated. Some other parts are WIP, like how many assemblers/furnaces are needed (assuming 8 speed beacons). Ores are not really included but can easily be calculated from total number of plates since that's the only use for them.
I use a single silo with 20 speed beacons and 9 fast inserters from logistics chest for rocket part ingredients. It's the fastest you can cycle a single rocket silo, which then fires once every 63 seconds.
If you use 2 speed beacons and prod modules then you get another crafting speed. If you want a 1 minute rocket then the things to produce one rocket has to be your 1 minute production valies. But since there's like a 30 second launch animation it's a bit tricky to go from crafting speed to actual launch time with rockets.

Re: logistics bot "megabase"

Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 2:37 pm
by ls_2011
wow how many hours did you need to take to get that :?: