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All science packs, beaconed and moduled 42/s

https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?f=204&t=105816

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All science packs, beaconed and moduled 42/s

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2023 6:53 pm
by Tertius
This is a list of blueprints for a blue belt full of science packs of every type. They produce about 42-44 science per second, so one production line is enough for a 2500 SPM base.
Two production lines of each fits a 5K SPM base with 5 rocket silos perfectly. Bottleneck is the rocket silos with white science (40.7/s per blue belt).

I didn't really find moduled and fully beaconed blue belt science production examples on the web, so I create one myself. All machines have as many production modules as possible and usually 8 beacons with speed modules.

The production lines are kind of tileable, however due to the large amount of input required it might be difficult to provide enough input items on the small footprint. "Tileable" means you overlap the blueprints on the outer beacon rows, so you save a small amount of energy.
The last picture is an example how these could be arranged all doubled for 84/s science to provide 5K SPM, with a huge bus at one side (picture has infinity chests, on a real map on the bus begin would be a bunch of train stations, at least this is how I am planning to do it).

A nixie tube (mod) display is added at the end of each production line, so you can see the current throughput. Just remove them if you don't need them or want to run without mods.
Pictures
Blueprints red, green, grey

Re: All science packs, beaconed and moduled 42/s

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2023 6:53 pm
by Tertius
Blueprints blue, purple, yellow

Re: All science packs, beaconed and moduled 42/s

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 6:01 am
by mrvn
Do you have red/green circuit boards and smelting too?

Re: All science packs, beaconed and moduled 42/s

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 6:30 am
by Optera
Very clean builds.
One optimization, try using more direct insertion. For example on Purple Sci squeeze rods between rails and use direct insertion.

Re: All science packs, beaconed and moduled 42/s

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 2:28 pm
by Tertius
mrvn wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 6:01 am Do you have red/green circuit boards and smelting too?
Yes, in combination with train stations, but I'm not yet completely satisfied with the train stations, so the stations are WIP. The production lines themselves are designed to fully consume or fully fill blue belts, within the constraints of sane production ratios.

Red circuits: my own design.
Inputs: plastic bars, green circuits, copper plates.

Green circuits: DaveMcW's design.
Inputs: iron plates, copper plates.

Plate smelters: design circulated in this forum, don't know original author.
Input: iron/copper ore.

Steel smelter: my own design.
Input: iron ore.

I arranged them together with train stations, tileable for as many production lines as train congestion allows.
Tiny detail: there is some circuitry to turn off a complete production line if either input is empty or output train station is full.

Pictures
Blueprint red circuits

Re: All science packs, beaconed and moduled 42/s

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 2:29 pm
by Tertius
Blueprints green circuits, plate smelter

Re: All science packs, beaconed and moduled 42/s

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 2:29 pm
by Tertius
Blueprint steel smelter

Re: All science packs, beaconed and moduled 42/s

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 2:59 pm
by Tertius
Optera wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 6:30 am Very clean builds.
One optimization, try using more direct insertion. For example on Purple Sci squeeze rods between rails and use direct insertion.
Thanks.
I didn't think about direct insertion yet, because this gets a 4-tile spacing, which doesn't fit well with the 3-tile spacing of beacon lines. Definitely an idea for rails and iron sticks, since there is some space and not that many beacons required. Will work on it.

My approach for designing all of the blueprints was very simple and straightforward. First placing 2 beacon lines, then all assembling machines for the science to fill one side of a blue belt, then see how items can be supplied to these machines within the 2x2 tile wide space inside the beacon lines, then create required intermediates in front of them within the beacon line as well, then add power poles. If necessary add another beacon line + machines on top for intermediates. Then duplicate for filling both lanes of the output belt. That worked quite well, I suppose. A tiny amount of spaghetti included as well.

Re: All science packs, beaconed and moduled 42/s

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:29 pm
by mmmPI
Tertius wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 2:59 pm My approach for designing all of the blueprints was very simple and straightforward. First placing 2 beacon lines, then all assembling machines for the science to fill one side of a blue belt, then see how items can be supplied to these machines within the 2x2 tile wide space inside the beacon lines, then create required intermediates in front of them within the beacon line as well, then add power poles. If necessary add another beacon line + machines on top for intermediates. Then duplicate for filling both lanes of the output belt. That worked quite well, I suppose. A tiny amount of spaghetti included as well.
It does look very clean indeed.

Have you considered sustitution between assembly machines and beacons to further boost the capacity of each assembly and reduce the overall amout of inserters ? I'm not sure how well it would do, given that 1 beacon can give +50% speed to 2 adjacent machines, that amount to 100% and could pay for the removed assembly if 1/2 were replaced ? not sure about what's multiplicative and what's additive.

Re: All science packs, beaconed and moduled 42/s

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 4:07 pm
by Tertius
mmmPI wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:29 pm Have you considered sustitution between assembly machines and beacons to further boost the capacity of each assembly and reduce the overall amout of inserters ? I'm not sure how well it would do, given that 1 beacon can give +50% speed to 2 adjacent machines, that amount to 100% and could pay for the removed assembly if 1/2 were replaced ? not sure about what's multiplicative and what's additive.
I'm not entirely sure what you ask, but I assume you ask for a 12-beacon solution (assembly machines surrounded by a square of 12 beacons)?

I considered this, and I actually created 2 alternative designs for low density structures and rocket control units earlier, a 8-beacon/machine and a 12-beacon/machine design each. After comparing both designs, I decided against the 12-beacon variants because they had bigger footprint and severe difficulties to feed or extract due to the extreme speed. I didn't want to despair later with things like feeding 30 rails every 2.6 seconds for purple science. You can do this for 1 or 2 machines, but a whole production line? And to my surprise, for a 8-beacon design, ratios between machines and belt speeds came together very nicely, which is not the case for every 12-beacon design.

So I just decided to go for the 8-beacon design for everything. It's probably less UPS friendly, since more moving parts involved, however that's the current design decision.

May be in megabase version 2.0. Currently, I'm in the process of upgrading my PC hardware. Somewhat expensive, but more easy to implement instead of UPS optimization. The current save of the megabase draft using all these blueprints can be downloaded here. It's scratching the 60 UPS limit on my core i7 6700K, however it still lacks all the mines.

Re: All science packs, beaconed and moduled 42/s

Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2023 11:40 am
by mrvn
For the high throughput rail stations I went away from trying to unload the train faster and faster and spaghetifying the rails. You hit the law of diminishing returns as more and more time is spend on the train arriving and leaving (relative to unloading).

So for example for the iron smelting instead of unloading 1 train onto blue belts use up to 6 parallel train stops all unloading unto underground belts going across the 6 stations. That easily gets you 3 blue belts per wagon (stupid inserters always unload to the same side of an underground belt in vanilla, 6 with Bob's inserters).

Re: All science packs, beaconed and moduled 42/s

Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2023 8:56 pm
by mmmPI
Tertius wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 4:07 pm I'm not entirely sure what you ask, but I assume you ask for a 12-beacon solution (assembly machines surrounded by a square of 12 beacons)?
That wasn't so clear for me that things were either 8 or 12 beacons setup, maybe you assumed i had clearer picture in mind because i post a lot but i've been doing combinators , trains , and modded games recently. When i tried to modify your blueprint to show what i meant it became obvious.

Thanks for your explanations on the pros and cons, i guess the same reasonning explain why you didn't use extra beacon for the intermediate that do not use productivity modules like inserters for green science or ammo and wall for military, assemblies are already so fast with speed modules that their inserters are already close to 100% usage which i think is a positive sign for the overall number of moving part train of thought and it fits very nicely :)
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