Pyramid city block train world

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Clever and beautiful constructions, bigger than two chunks
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Amarula
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Pyramid city block train world

Post by Amarula »

After becoming more and more frustrated with train spaghetti, I came to the forums for ideas on how to do it better. Back in September of 2018, I found this post viewtopic.php?f=5&t=62437&p=379267&hili ... id#p379077 from Malandark with an interesting premise: a pyramid transforming input resources into every more complex products, culminating in science packs delivered to research labs at the peak of the pyramid.

I am now on my fifth version of a pyramid-inspired city block train world. I call my city-blocks sectors, as to me a city block contains a variety of buildings offering different goods and services, where my sectors have a single purpose. The bottom row of the pyramid contains forges to turn ore into plate, and refineries to turn crude oil into oil products. All the raw resources are brought up from below this line, so none of my resource trains use any of the tracks in the main part of the base.

Following the pyramid concept, all sector inputs are delivered to the bottom of the sector; the middle area does the processing; outputs are made available to clients at the top. I call my input unloading design a ladder, where each rung of the ladder supports a different input. The number of rungs on the ladder is determined by the sector input needs. I use the same design for outputs; usually there is only a single output rung, but as needed, I add more rungs to support more customer trains.

After much trial and error, I have settled on single purpose trains. At first I tried having trains serve multiple customers, for example the iron plate train would take iron to everyone who needed it. That didn't work, I ended up delivering iron to customers who already had plenty, but had room for more and sucked it all up, starving everyone else. Then I tried sector trains, where one train tried to pick up everything needed by the sector. And that didn't work: the train ended up full of iron, which the sector couldn't use, because it was waiting on copper, which the train couldn't pick up, because it was waiting to unload the iron. Then I tried having replicated sectors all using the same depot name. That didn't work, the customers all went to the closest sector, which was out of product, and ignored the other sectors that were idle. I tried using the circuit network to make the trains smarter. That didn't work (my limitation here not so much the circuit network!)

So now, with a very few exceptions, my trains have trivially simple schedules: go to source depot A, pick up product A, return to destination sector B and deliver the product. Every train stop has a unique name, and every train has designated source and destination stops. I use a consistent naming system: every sector is named for what it produces; each input stop is named for the sector, followed by the name of the input, followed by the word "in" (to help reduce my human error rate when I am assigning stops to the train schedule), for example "Circuits iron in". I use iron for iron plates, iron ore is written out in full. The output stop is named for the product followed by the word depot, for example "Circuit depot". When I need more of any given product, I simply replicate the sector, and add an identifying serial number, for example "Red circuits 3 plastic in" and "Steel 3 depot".

How to fuel the trains: at first I had designated fuel stops, and each train picked up, delivered, and went for fuel. That really didn't work! It was very wasteful, because the train didn't need fuel 90% of the times it went to the fuel stop. And the fuel stops caused endless congestion and deadlock. So now the bottom rung on every input ladder is for the fuel train. All the trains are refueled each time they deliver (with the exception of acid trains for uranium mining, which need to be refueled when they pick up acid). The fuel stops are one exception to the every stop unique rule: the fuel stops are all named "Fuel stop", and are disabled until the sector is low on fuel. There is one fuel train, that delivers fuel to up to three fuel stops before returning to the fuel depot to reload.

When I ramped up my world to aim for 1KSPM, I found that there was a lot of competition for resources, and my trains were having to go farther and farther to pick up and deliver. So I redid everything using what I call zones. Each science pack has its own zone, and every sector in the zone is dedicated to supporting production of that one type of science pack. Each zone is its own mini-pyramid, starting from raw resources up to finished products. Now the green circuits for inserters for green science are not being drawn off to make red circuits for electric furnaces! And nearly all my trains are intra-zone, so they never have to travel more than 8 or so blocks. This helps reduce congestion, and because the paths are so short, I do not see a lot of UPS issues from path-finding.

I am now working on 2KSPM by replicating my zones! I now have quadrants: a group of seven zones (6 science packs and a rocket silo zone). Each quadrant has its own research park to minimize the distance the science pack trains have to go to deliver.

As my world got bigger and bigger, I needed a personal transport train to get around, and I ran out of room to carry all the stuff I needed to expand, so I added a helper train, and then several more helper trains... these are described more in this post: viewtopic.php?f=194&t=82899
Screenshot March 30 the whole thing.png
Screenshot March 30 the whole thing.png (307.02 KiB) Viewed 6704 times
My own personal Factorio super-power - running out of power.

GluAp
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Re: Pyramid city block train world

Post by GluAp »

Ok, first of all: congratulations for reaching 1k SPM and going for 2k.

But I'm not convinced by your "pyramid" concept, or the naming. Because, well, the whole game is a pyramid, basically not depending on what you actually build. You will usually always take X items to make less than X new items of a different kind, mainly science packs. It's a compression scheme. And at the very top, you have technology progress as the single most defining factor.

But's still it's always nice to see other players having the same development in factorio base design ideas
After much trial and error, I have settled on single purpose trains.
This is such a nice sentence in that regard :D
So now, with a very few exceptions, my trains have trivially simple schedules: go to source depot A, pick up product A, return to destination sector B and deliver the product. Every train stop has a unique name, and every train has designated source and destination stops. I use a consistent naming system: every sector is named for what it produces; each input stop is named for the sector, followed by the name of the input, followed by the word "in" (to help reduce my human error rate when I am assigning stops to the train schedule), for example "Circuits iron in". I use iron for iron plates, iron ore is written out in full. The output stop is named for the product followed by the word depot, for example "Circuit depot". When I need more of any given product, I simply replicate the sector, and add an identifying serial number, for example "Red circuits 3 plastic in" and "Steel 3 depot".
I think, it's time for you to read about VTN (Vanilla train network) or LTN (logistic train network) ;)
By the way - I suggest having a better naming concept for you train stations. Because: "Copper Ore in" does mean what? Does it mean, it will be loaded INto the train or will it be loaded from the train INto a factory which uses Copper ore? Believe it or not, but I actually had a lot of confusion about this in multiplayer.
Now I stick to naming them "provider" or "requester" station. It's pretty much a foolproof naming scheme ;)
As my world got bigger and bigger, I needed a personal transport train to get around, and I ran out of room to carry all the stuff I needed to expand, so I added a helper train, and then several more helper trains...
Well .. this works. But .. personally I find it very annoying the longer I play the game. I want to build stuff and don't spend my time waiting while driving. So I usually use the teleporter mod, or just use the console with some keyboard macros to teleport me to certain coordinates if my base has become too big. Also I mostly use electric train for the same reason.

btw - it'd be nice if you could provide more/better pictures, as this one doesn't really show us much.
As I mentioned before, I think you should look into VTN/LTN. Haphollas has built himself a nice network, too.

Amarula
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Re: Pyramid city block train world

Post by Amarula »

GluAp wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:31 pm
After much trial and error, I have settled on single purpose trains.
This is such a nice sentence in that regard :D
Thank you !
GluAp wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:31 pm
By the way - I suggest having a better naming concept for you train stations. Because: "Copper Ore in" does mean what? Does it mean, it will be loaded INto the train or will it be loaded from the train INto a factory which uses Copper ore? Believe it or not, but I actually had a lot of confusion about this in multiplayer.
Now I stick to naming them "provider" or "requester" station. It's pretty much a foolproof naming scheme ;)
Good point. However, it works well enough for me; a station is either something "in" or something "depot" so I don't get them confused. And I am not going to rename several hundred stations at this point 8-) Next game!

Sorry for the lack of photos, I had good intentions of getting several added but RL so... maybe next week?

Thanks for your feedback!
My own personal Factorio super-power - running out of power.

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