This is my solution for producing one blue belt of green circuits. It uses 16 inserters, 18 beacons, and 0 splitters. You can fill in the gaps to make it 20 beacons if you prefer aesthetics over power consumption.
ups-optimized-green-circuits.jpg (454.67 KiB) Viewed 20531 times
Re: UPS Optimized Green Circuits 45/s
Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:45 pm
by foamy
... I never thought of putting the circuit assembler ahead of the wire one. But the circuits only need six beacons instead of the full eight, so you don't need to extend the ribbon as far. And there's the other pair you can save in the middle. Neat.
Re: UPS Optimized Green Circuits 45/s
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2022 5:48 am
by DaveMcW
Here is an updated version with UPS-optimized transport belts.
ups optimized green circuits.jpg (521.32 KiB) Viewed 15499 times
Re: UPS Optimized Green Circuits 45/s
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:31 am
by BiterUnion
Do you have any reading tips what "UPS-optimized transport belts" means? Do you try to have the least amount of "overground" belts? If so, could this not be even more optimized by introducing further underground belts on the top part, e.g., for the green circuit or copper belts?
Re: UPS Optimized Green Circuits 45/s
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:46 am
by Koub
BiterUnion wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:31 am
Do you have any reading tips what "UPS-optimized transport belts" means? Do you try to have the least amount of "overground" belts? If so, could this not be even more optimized by introducing further underground belts on the top part, e.g., for the green circuit or copper belts?
IIRC, side loading a belt onto another belt is suboptimal UPS-wise. If I'm not mistaken, then less side-loading, more UPS.
BiterUnion wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:31 am
Do you have any reading tips what "UPS-optimized transport belts" means? Do you try to have the least amount of "overground" belts? If so, could this not be even more optimized by introducing further underground belts on the top part, e.g., for the green circuit or copper belts?
IIRC, side loading a belt onto another belt is suboptimal UPS-wise. If I'm not mistaken, then less side-loading, more UPS.
BiterUnion wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:31 am
Do you have any reading tips what "UPS-optimized transport belts" means? Do you try to have the least amount of "overground" belts? If so, could this not be even more optimized by introducing further underground belts on the top part, e.g., for the green circuit or copper belts?
IIRC, side loading a belt onto another belt is suboptimal UPS-wise. If I'm not mistaken, then less side-loading, more UPS.
Doesn't the side loading belt enter a sleep state until a gap appears in the other belt? Maybe only when both sides of the target belt have no gap? Or only when it's not moving?
BiterUnion wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:31 am
Do you have any reading tips what "UPS-optimized transport belts" means? Do you try to have the least amount of "overground" belts? If so, could this not be even more optimized by introducing further underground belts on the top part, e.g., for the green circuit or copper belts?
IIRC, side loading a belt onto another belt is suboptimal UPS-wise. If I'm not mistaken, then less side-loading, more UPS.
Doesn't the side loading belt enter a sleep state until a gap appears in the other belt? Maybe only when both sides of the target belt have no gap? Or only when it's not moving?
Sorry, I don't have sufficient knowledge about these mechanisms to answer. However, I'd suppose that on average, every additional side loading statistically adds up (even if there are sleep <=> active switches).
Re: UPS Optimized Green Circuits 45/s
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2022 1:32 pm
by DaveMcW
Reducing side loading is one factor. Another factor is keeping belts fully compressed. The "show-transport-line-gaps" debug option will show where compression has failed.
Re: UPS Optimized Green Circuits 45/s
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2022 2:06 pm
by BiterUnion
DaveMcW wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 1:32 pm
Another factor is keeping belts fully compressed.
Interesting. Does this mean it would be beneficial for UPS to use red and yellow belts for the iron towards the end of the assembly line in an attempt to keep them fully compressed after the first assemblers have taken iron off the blue belt?
Re: UPS Optimized Green Circuits 45/s
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2022 2:15 pm
by DaveMcW
No, because changing belt color counts as a side load.
Re: UPS Optimized Green Circuits 45/s
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:41 pm
by mrvn
On the other hand slower belts are easier for the inserter to pick up items. Less chasing.
BiterUnion wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:31 am
Do you have any reading tips what "UPS-optimized transport belts" means? Do you try to have the least amount of "overground" belts? If so, could this not be even more optimized by introducing further underground belts on the top part, e.g., for the green circuit or copper belts?
IIRC, side loading a belt onto another belt is suboptimal UPS-wise. If I'm not mistaken, then less side-loading, more UPS.
Regarding UPS optimization: Are there any up to date resources about UPS optimization where more than individual tidbits are listed/discussed/explained? Having to sieve through the forum brings up many old threads but each of these recommendation could be out of date already.
Re: UPS Optimized Green Circuits 45/s
Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2022 7:50 am
by Koub
asheiduk wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:11 am
Regarding UPS optimization: Are there any up to date resources about UPS optimization where more than individual tidbits are listed/discussed/explained? Having to sieve through the forum brings up many old threads but each of these recommendation could be out of date already.
I'm afraid not. At least, never heard of such a thing.
But this has already been requested some time ago, over there.
Re: UPS Optimized Green Circuits 45/s
Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2022 12:08 pm
by mrvn
DaveMcW wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 5:48 am
Here is an updated version with UPS-optimized transport belts.
You can save one pair of underground belts if you break symmetry with the power poles (top one). But maybe that breaks the copper belt as the inserters are now all taking from the same side?
green.png (1.04 MiB) Viewed 15321 times
On the other hand (second row) if you move the blue undergrounds by one tile each then this allows building the setup with yellow belts and no modules early on. This can then be upgraded to red + modules 1. One yellow underground pair can be removed. And then later upgrade to blue removing some red underground belts (changes to the blue version highlighted by white boxes).
Looks to be around 1/3 yellow belt and 1/2 red belt output for that setup. So if you build 6 of those you get 2 yellow belts to start, then 3 red and finally 6 blue.