Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Smart setups of railway stations, intelligent routing, solutions to complex train-routing problems.
Please provide - only if it makes sense of course - a blueprint of your creation.
Yinyang107
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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Yinyang107 »

Oh, I see... I hadn't realized that the non-bulk stations were designed for 2-length trains. All I have available in my network is a pair of L<-CCCC-L< trains. I replaced the stations with bulk ones and now it's running fine. Thanks!

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Kratos Aurion »

I have some issues in understanding what your stations do. What is a LTN-Bulk-Load-Rear-R? LTN-Bulk-Load means, it is a LTN Mod using loading station for bulk goods, what does Rear-R mean? What does Rear-B mean? Front-R, Front-B?Why do you have balancers in your blueprint book? Does every station need an entry right AND left? Also an exit right and left?

Edit: Ok, I think I figured out, what Rear-R means: Rear or Front is the the direction they station is heading, R or B is just the belt colors.

The pumps on my oil station don't get activated, what might cause this problem?

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by mkaito »

Have you thought about a combined 3-in-1 loading station, as counterpart to your 3-in-1 unloading station? Or even single-wagon loading/unloading stations, that fit with your chunk pattern?

And a flipped version of the fluid stations, that load/unloads to the rear.

And what are those combiners for that output usually green squares? Are those for chaining stations together somehow?

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by doc776@gmail.com »

And what are those combiners for that output usually green squares? Are those for chaining stations together somehow?
I thought that is just for the nixie tubes output, having it always green removes the hasle of setting up nixie tube conditions to what ever. Could be wrong, i too found them odd and removed where i didnt need them since they hare not connected anywhere.

On the sulfuric acid note: I think having the combinator for acid and the extra stuff be off by default to prevent them requesting off the bat. Since alot of people also play with other mods. i just had all that acid brought to where i needed a different acid. I was like ok sure got plenty of sulfur anyway.

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by LastElf »

I have a similar issue as Yinyang but I think we came to different solutions. I'm using Uranium outposts since I'm using Angel's infinite ores and they need some kind of acid. Changing the acid type is easy but I've found that the conflict of 6 length provider trains and -4 length fluid trains is causing the outpost to not request a LCCCCL train that delivers to the 6 length bulk unloaders. My solution so far is to remove the power pole that is running the red signal to the input line (The pole powering the two outpost item constants) but this then cancels the request functionality for the 2 length fluid trains.

So far I'm just going to have a 2-6 limit on train length and only have LCCCCL and LF trains running but it looks to me like the LTN station will input both signals but then combine them for the result which then means no trains run to combined outposts.

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Ringkeeper »

just started using LTN and wanted to say thanks for the station designs.... couldn't figure out how LTN works exactly (i'm really not good with the circuit stuff).

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by mkaito »

LastElf wrote:I have a similar issue as Yinyang but I think we came to different solutions. I'm using Uranium outposts since I'm using Angel's infinite ores and they need some kind of acid. Changing the acid type is easy but I've found that the conflict of 6 length provider trains and -4 length fluid trains is causing the outpost to not request a LCCCCL train that delivers to the 6 length bulk unloaders. My solution so far is to remove the power pole that is running the red signal to the input line (The pole powering the two outpost item constants) but this then cancels the request functionality for the 2 length fluid trains.

So far I'm just going to have a 2-6 limit on train length and only have LCCCCL and LF trains running but it looks to me like the LTN station will input both signals but then combine them for the result which then means no trains run to combined outposts.
The way the setup works is as follows:

The primary constant combinator gives the station it's primary options: minimum and maximum length both 6, provide threshold to something reasonable for a 4-wagon train.

The combinators that request outpost equipments are behind a conditional gate that only activates if any of those items actually need to be requested. If so, it will change train limits to length 2, which will prevent any ore trains from getting requests from the station until the outpost equipment is back in the positive.

Simply by deactivating the 3 constant combinators that set the requests for outpost equipment (click on them and set them to 'off'), you will fully prevent this. Unpowering some of the combinators will have an unpredictable result.

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by mkaito »

mkaito wrote:Have you thought about a combined 3-in-1 loading station, as counterpart to your 3-in-1 unloading station?
I made a set of these, because I didn't want to use the 4-wagon stations for stuff like blue chips or batteries, and using the 4-wagon loading stations and using primarily 1-1 trains was causing issues. Who would have thought, right?

The blueprints use red belts, but you can use something like upgrade planner to easily convert to blue or yellow. I've added constant combinators to label the input belts, A, B, and C, in order from rear to front as the train goes.

Here's the blueprint string: https://pastebin.com/uV3QA6ev

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by LastElf »

mkaito wrote:The way the setup works is as follows:

The primary constant combinator gives the station it's primary options: minimum and maximum length both 6, provide threshold to something reasonable for a 4-wagon train.

The combinators that request outpost equipments are behind a conditional gate that only activates if any of those items actually need to be requested. If so, it will change train limits to length 2, which will prevent any ore trains from getting requests from the station until the outpost equipment is back in the positive.

Simply by deactivating the 3 constant combinators that set the requests for outpost equipment (click on them and set them to 'off'), you will fully prevent this. Unpowering some of the combinators will have an unpredictable result.
That's why I was getting that issue! I'm playing peaceful so I don't have any of those things at my outposts, and if that takes priority over the 6 length trains that makes sense why I wasn't getting any pickup orders. Thanks!

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Ringkeeper »

maybe someone can help me :)

The stations all work nice in vanilla but if you use modded loco+waggon nothing happens. I read somewhere in the LTN thread that you have to send an additional signal (composition) where the modded loco is stopping.... as with everything at LTN, there is not really a documentation and explanation how, at least not for players that are new to all the circuit stuff.

Where do i have to hook up that arithmetic to in your station designs?

*edit* after alot of trial and error.... Station-output ---> arethmetic with "mod loco-encoded" + "mod loco" = "encoded positions loco" ---> arethmetic "each * loco = each* , then they get at least fuel.

On the provider i didn't find a solution yet (didn't test much) but for now changing the "each * wagon = each" to use the mod waggon works... i guess need to put a arethmetic before that also.

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by doc776@gmail.com »

Ringkeeper wrote: if you use modded loco+waggon nothing happens
composition filter
composition filter
Desktop Screenshot 2017.10.17 - 01.57.09.80.png (334.57 KiB) Viewed 5614 times
See the combinator i opened, it has the signal selected for the wagon mk3. The LTN mod keeps that signal along with other special signals for every type of loco and wagon and stuff to controill how the station functions under the signals tab when choosing. This blueprints are all set to the vanilla wagons and locomotives. Just find the right one to filter and pray all your 40 trains are all the same. :D This is also seen in the blueprints for the depot, where you set the locomotive signal. I now use all mk3 locomotives and wagons on steroids.

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by sipa »

doc776@gmail.com wrote:
Ringkeeper wrote: if you use modded loco+waggon nothing happens
Desktop Screenshot 2017.10.17 - 01.57.09.80.png
See the combinator i opened, it has the signal selected for the wagon mk3. The LTN mod keeps that signal along with other special signals for every type of loco and wagon and stuff to controill how the station functions under the signals tab when choosing. This blueprints are all set to the vanilla wagons and locomotives. Just find the right one to filter and pray all your 40 trains are all the same. :D This is also seen in the blueprints for the depot, where you set the locomotive signal. I now use all mk3 locomotives and wagons on steroids.
It now autodetect what wagons you are using. So all you need to do is to upgrade your blueprints and then you can mix wagons.

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by GPS »

I'm using the LTN-Bulk Unload-Front-B blueprint, and I'm having trouble understanding the circuit logic. The behavior I'm seeing is that, even when the chests are all full, the trains are still stacking up with 8k Copper Ore, in my case.

I've been tracing the circuits, and one of them is multiplying the Stack size (S) by 1,472, but I can't figure out where that number comes from. It isn't the number of stacks in my <LCCCC<L trains (4*40 = 160), nor the number of slots in the chests (4*2*48=384), nor the item counts based on the stack size (8000 and 19,200, respectively). The net result is that the station is requesting 73k ore, but it can't absorb that much, so I wind up with a lot of trains waiting with full ore loads that can't offload fast enough.

What am I missing? I can provide screenshots, if needed. Thanks!

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Wheatley »

Hi just checking in to say that I am still getting the error reported by ElGaucho. (I am using version 1.6.2)

Fluid is still left in the train when leaving the station. It looks to be a rounding error of some kind, looking at the contents of one fluid wagon it contains 0.3 fluid in each tank. I'll have a play around with it, disconnect the tanks so that each wagon has 3 tanks, change some of the values on the combinators etc.

I have another problem as well with the mining outpost in that the network doesn't see it as a supply. I'll have another look into it again when I get the chance.

Otherwise the bulk [un]loaders have been working fantastically! Thank You!

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Optera »

Wheatley wrote:Hi just checking in to say that I am still getting the error reported by ElGaucho. (I am using version 1.6.2)

Fluid is still left in the train when leaving the station. It looks to be a rounding error of some kind, looking at the contents of one fluid wagon it contains 0.3 fluid in each tank. I'll have a play around with it, disconnect the tanks so that each wagon has 3 tanks, change some of the values on the combinators etc.

I have another problem as well with the mining outpost in that the network doesn't see it as a supply. I'll have another look into it again when I get the chance.

Otherwise the bulk [un]loaders have been working fantastically! Thank You!
I'm well aware of these rounding errors. Feel free to apply pressure to the devs to fix this problem here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=49274

Until it's fixed you can use Inventory Sensor. It always rounds fluids up to the next highest integer.

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Jap2.0 »

Optera wrote:
Wheatley wrote:Hi just checking in to say that I am still getting the error reported by ElGaucho. (I am using version 1.6.2)

Fluid is still left in the train when leaving the station. It looks to be a rounding error of some kind, looking at the contents of one fluid wagon it contains 0.3 fluid in each tank. I'll have a play around with it, disconnect the tanks so that each wagon has 3 tanks, change some of the values on the combinators etc.

I have another problem as well with the mining outpost in that the network doesn't see it as a supply. I'll have another look into it again when I get the chance.

Otherwise the bulk [un]loaders have been working fantastically! Thank You!
I'm well aware of these rounding errors. Feel free to apply pressure to the devs to fix this problem here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=49274

Until it's fixed you can use Inventory Sensor. It always rounds fluids up to the next highest integer.
If the problem is that the train leaves as soon as it think it is empty (but it stilll has a fraction of a unit of fluid), couldn't you just make it wait an extra couple ticks at the station?
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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Wheatley »

Jap2.0 wrote:
Optera wrote:
Wheatley wrote:Hi just checking in to say that I am still getting the error reported by ElGaucho. (I am using version 1.6.2)

Fluid is still left in the train when leaving the station. It looks to be a rounding error of some kind, looking at the contents of one fluid wagon it contains 0.3 fluid in each tank. I'll have a play around with it, disconnect the tanks so that each wagon has 3 tanks, change some of the values on the combinators etc.

I have another problem as well with the mining outpost in that the network doesn't see it as a supply. I'll have another look into it again when I get the chance.

Otherwise the bulk [un]loaders have been working fantastically! Thank You!
I'm well aware of these rounding errors. Feel free to apply pressure to the devs to fix this problem here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=49274

Until it's fixed you can use Inventory Sensor. It always rounds fluids up to the next highest integer.
If the problem is that the train leaves as soon as it think it is empty (but it stilll has a fraction of a unit of fluid), couldn't you just make it wait an extra couple ticks at the station?

I don't think that would work. It's not that the train leaves the station early but rather the pumps turn off early. It actually creates another problem whereby the train doesn't leave because it isn't empty, thus it waits around until it timeouts (I think 120 seconds of inactivity) slowing the throughput.

I still don't quite understand how to use the Inventory sensor. So in the meantime I added new depots under a different name just for fluid wagon trains to attend to. I made my own fluid sorter and barreler so that when they return to the depot they get emptied and don't carry that last drop to other stations and screwing them up.

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Jap2.0 »

Wheatley wrote:
Jap2.0 wrote:
Optera wrote:
Wheatley wrote:Hi just checking in to say that I am still getting the error reported by ElGaucho. (I am using version 1.6.2)

Fluid is still left in the train when leaving the station. It looks to be a rounding error of some kind, looking at the contents of one fluid wagon it contains 0.3 fluid in each tank. I'll have a play around with it, disconnect the tanks so that each wagon has 3 tanks, change some of the values on the combinators etc.

I have another problem as well with the mining outpost in that the network doesn't see it as a supply. I'll have another look into it again when I get the chance.

Otherwise the bulk [un]loaders have been working fantastically! Thank You!
I'm well aware of these rounding errors. Feel free to apply pressure to the devs to fix this problem here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=49274

Until it's fixed you can use Inventory Sensor. It always rounds fluids up to the next highest integer.
If the problem is that the train leaves as soon as it think it is empty (but it stilll has a fraction of a unit of fluid), couldn't you just make it wait an extra couple ticks at the station?

I don't think that would work. It's not that the train leaves the station early but rather the pumps turn off early. It actually creates another problem whereby the train doesn't leave because it isn't empty, thus it waits around until it timeouts (I think 120 seconds of inactivity) slowing the throughput.

I still don't quite understand how to use the Inventory sensor. So in the meantime I added new depots under a different name just for fluid wagon trains to attend to. I made my own fluid sorter and barreler so that when they return to the depot they get emptied and don't carry that last drop to other stations and screwing them up.
If the pumps don't detect fluid in a wagon when there is some, that sounds like a bug to me.
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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Salty Wagyu »

I'm testing out the provider and requester station blueprints in sandbox mode, as I'd like to use them in my city block factory to supply a big mall of assemblies.

I've tested with a handful of random items to begin with. When I requested 2K of blue circuits it sent a train with 2K circuits, and once it arrived at the requester station LTN made another delivery again for 868 blue circuits. Why couldn't it send 2868 in one train load? Or why didn't it stick with 2k only? 2 trains is wasteful

edit: further findings... I took out 500 from the warehouse (request threshold is 400). LTN then made 3 deliveries for 452, 432 and 432 blue circuits. Strange...

edit2: Fixed it, was my mistake really for using only 2 cargo wagons! Once it was set up as LCCCCL it works fine. I still need to do some further thinking/planning on request thresholds, set too low and it sends a train to restock 200. That's great for something rare like blue circuits for a Mall, but I'd ideally want higher thresholds for Iron/Copper plates as they are consumed more often so I want a bigger load for things like that, it's difficult :/
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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by damnfan »

I'm having an issue with your blueprint where when the train arrives at the unloading station it does not set the filter for the stack filter inserters. It appears that the iron ore signal disappears when it goes from the negative arithmetic combinator to the power pole. This also applies to the loading station. I'm using your station blueprint but moved the stop and logic to accommodate for my double headed 2-4-2 train. Does anyone have an idea on why it is not setting the filter?

Edit: I did not set the station to send train contents.

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