Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Smart setups of railway stations, intelligent routing, solutions to complex train-routing problems.
Please provide - only if it makes sense of course - a blueprint of your creation.
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Odhrean
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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Odhrean » Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:29 pm

Drachennarr wrote:Hi, nice Blueprint-Book and some nice look. ... but i´ve got some problems with the fluid-Station ... all is set up ... but nothing happens. no train that go to the requester and my base is running out of fuel ... :( ... any Ideas?

mfg

Drachennarr
Do you have a provider with enough (more than 100k) fuel providing and the requester set up correctly (replace the "x" with requested liquid and negative amount, -75k per waggon = -300k)
DaPassenger wrote:@ Odhrean

I tryed to play around with the LTN Stations Blueprint Book, hitting some issues. Maybe its just my missunderstanding of the signals etc.

I wanted to use the "Universal Requester" and the "Universal Provider". Using a Testsetup with 2 Depots, the 2 stations (the 2 roboports dont connect to each other). I put some Stoare Chests near the Provider, put 1000 Iron Plates in. Provide Treshold is 200 at the provider, Request Treshhold 1M. At the Request Station Request Treshold 100, Changed the 1st X to 400 Iron Plates.

But is still does not create any scedule. Using a LCCCL train sitting in the depot. Maybe I'm missing something? Help is much appreciated.

Edit: I see... i have the same problem as the guy above this. :D Fluid Station won't do anything
Your set up sounds correct. Perhaps something with the LTN mod has changed. I was away for about 1Month from playing factorio. I will investigate it when I am back from holidays.

Edit: after reading the LTN changelog nothing changed at signaling... Can you upload a screenshot with your set up?

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Drachennarr » Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:34 pm

Odhrean wrote:
Drachennarr wrote:Hi, nice Blueprint-Book and some nice look. ... but i´ve got some problems with the fluid-Station ... all is set up ... but nothing happens. no train that go to the requester and my base is running out of fuel ... :( ... any Ideas?

mfg

Drachennarr
Do you have a provider with enough (more than 100k) fuel providing and the requester set up correctly (replace the "x" with requested liquid and negative amount, -75k per waggon = -300k)
Ok ... that was the Problem! ... I´ve set the "X" to Oil and added no amount. Your discriebtion sad this: "These Stations try to simplify the use of the brilliant LTN mod. All important LTN Signals/Parameters are pre-set.
At the Request-Stations the "X" Signal must be replaced with the Items to request at the Station and the Stack-Size of the Items set at Signal "S". The Rest will be calculated by the combinators and send to LTN." ... in my Point of view that means that the fluid-stations are also configurated and i doesn´t need to set an amount. ... One thing on your universal Provider: the 3-Block isn´t loaded because the kombinator is not linked to the chest. ... the requester looks like to be updated, it doesn´t want anything besides an positiv or negativ amount. Also an wire dispatch?

Thanks for the help.

mfg

Drachennarr

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Odhrean » Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:30 pm

Drachennarr wrote:
Odhrean wrote:
Drachennarr wrote:Hi, nice Blueprint-Book and some nice look. ... but i´ve got some problems with the fluid-Station ... all is set up ... but nothing happens. no train that go to the requester and my base is running out of fuel ... :( ... any Ideas?

mfg

Drachennarr
Do you have a provider with enough (more than 100k) fuel providing and the requester set up correctly (replace the "x" with requested liquid and negative amount, -75k per waggon = -300k)
Ok ... that was the Problem! ... I´ve set the "X" to Oil and added no amount. Your discriebtion sad this: "These Stations try to simplify the use of the brilliant LTN mod. All important LTN Signals/Parameters are pre-set.
At the Request-Stations the "X" Signal must be replaced with the Items to request at the Station and the Stack-Size of the Items set at Signal "S". The Rest will be calculated by the combinators and send to LTN." ... in my Point of view that means that the fluid-stations are also configurated and i doesn´t need to set an amount. ... One thing on your universal Provider: the 3-Block isn´t loaded because the kombinator is not linked to the chest. ... the requester looks like to be updated, it doesn´t want anything besides an positiv or negativ amount. Also an wire dispatch?

Thanks for the help.

mfg

Drachennarr
You are right, my description is wrong for the liquid stations. I'll change this.
I will check the signals on the universal provider next week. Thanks for the bug report.

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Drachennarr » Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:29 pm

Can you provide the LTN book with a one-track plan, which seperates the logistics within a base? I have problems to manage my drones as I transport a lot of things outside and away and do not want to fly these from my base to the somewhat remote station. I thought of an LCL train of a warehouse near the station fills out of a logistics area which lies further in the basis without the systems overlap. Would this be realizable or is it just a laundry room?

MFG

Drachennarr

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by sgtsquiggs » Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:28 pm

Using the Uranium Outpost Station (red belts), it seems to get stuck in a loop. If the train has enough uranium in its cargo, the inserters filter changes to blank and it begins to unload the first car into the active provider chest. This loops until the remaining cars have enough to meet demand and it leaves the station with the first car empty.
Image NEAT!

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Tzunamien » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:48 am

Hello first of all I want to say that your station build is really great and i like to use it since I understood it. I wanna response too the thing that sqtsquiggs allready said, but it heapens for the mining outpost red as well.

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Odhrean » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:03 am

Drachennarr wrote:Can you provide the LTN book with a one-track plan, which seperates the logistics within a base? I have problems to manage my drones as I transport a lot of things outside and away and do not want to fly these from my base to the somewhat remote station. I thought of an LCL train of a warehouse near the station fills out of a logistics area which lies further in the basis without the systems overlap. Would this be realizable or is it just a laundry room?

MFG

Drachennarr
You must seperate the Bot-Logistic Networks if you don't want bots fly a long way. Make sure they don't touch each other.
I don't need to provide a new book with new Stations because you can accomplish this task whtih the already provided stations.
If you need to transport a lot of different items to a remote area use the Universal Provider and Universal Requester Stations.
Just place the Universal Provider within the logistic Network of the central Warehouse (you need Logistic Chests for the contents)
and Universal Requester at the remote Area(s). Replace the "X" in the constant combinator with the Items and negative amount what
you want at the area. Make sure the robot networks of provider and requester do not overlap!

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Odhrean » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:30 am

sgtsquiggs wrote:Using the Uranium Outpost Station (red belts), it seems to get stuck in a loop. If the train has enough uranium in its cargo, the inserters filter changes to blank and it begins to unload the first car into the active provider chest. This loops until the remaining cars have enough to meet demand and it leaves the station with the first car empty.
Tzunamien wrote:Hello first of all I want to say that your station build is really great and i like to use it since I understood it. I wanna response too the thing that sqtsquiggs allready said, but it heapens for the mining outpost red as well.
I changed the Mining and UraniumOre Outpost Stations in Version 1.6.
In my Testmap they work fine.
Can you download and test them in your setup?
I removed alot of combinators and made them simplier and hopefully more robust.

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Mates31cz » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:58 am

How can i make in Universal Provider blacklisting of items ?

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by doc776@gmail.com » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:10 pm

Mates31cz wrote:How can i make in Universal Provider blacklisting of items ?
See what i do for most of my bobs/angels game outposts that are designated for things like chemicals and smelting and the crystalization outpost is have both a universal requester and a provider. This way i can have this dude amazing stations never botle neck on having that on station stockpile a billion empty barrels while others are puling them from the main base. Basicaly make the combinator that is int he requester station have a green wire extend to the provider station's lamp, that way what ever you are requesting is subtracted from your provider and thus it will never loop on it self. (watching them loop was amusing to watch)

That said if you wanna black list something add a combinator to your provider and set it to -900000 that way you will never have that item in positive and will never be provided. Carefull not to let it slide below the threshhold of 1 million that all the blueprints have here. If you know how they put togeather can alter them for your likes..

get me and my crappy writing?

That said would it be posible to create a station that could act as a provider and a requester at same time? Would require it to have some fancy switch for sure so it dont mix the ltn signals. Or perhaps the complexity need is unnecesery for it

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Odhrean » Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:20 am

doc776@gmail.com wrote:
Mates31cz wrote:How can i make in Universal Provider blacklisting of items ?
That said if you wanna black list something add a combinator to your provider and set it to -900000 that way you will never have that item in positive and will never be provided. Carefull not to let it slide below the threshhold of 1 million that all the blueprints have here. If you know how they put togeather can alter them for your likes..
The answer from doc776@gmail.com is correct. To blacklist one item easily without complicated circuits is to add a negative signal to the network. Just don't forget to set the request threshold higher than this to not request it :) You can see such a setup in my LTN-Testmap i uploaded on the OP. I use this in the Depot to request Fuel and provide thrash items but not the fuel i requested.

You can also use the Logistic Network to LTN stop filter to filter unwanted items from a roboport network.
doc776@gmail.com wrote: That said would it be posible to create a station that could act as a provider and a requester at same time? Would require it to have some fancy switch for sure so it dont mix the ltn signals. Or perhaps the complexity need is unnecesery for it
Optera created a Universal provider/requester Station(second station in that post). The Problem is that you don't have the high throughput of specialized stations because you cannot build much inserters.

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Odhrean » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:21 am

Drachennarr wrote:One thing on your universal Provider: the 3-Block isn´t loaded because the kombinator is not linked to the chest. ... the requester looks like to be updated, it doesn´t want anything besides an positiv or negativ amount. Also an wire dispatch?
I fixed this in Version 1.6.2.
Thanks for the bug-report

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by tpreissler » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:22 am

Hi,

I am wondering has anyone converted these into LHD?
I started off my trains, more by accident than intention, with LHD and now ... I just want to stick with it.
That I am living in England might have contributed to this choice in the first instance. Or maybe I just convert my base, RHD seems to be more common - for obvious reasons.


Cheers

Thomas

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by sipa » Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:13 am

Odhrean wrote:
sgtsquiggs wrote:Using the Uranium Outpost Station (red belts), it seems to get stuck in a loop. If the train has enough uranium in its cargo, the inserters filter changes to blank and it begins to unload the first car into the active provider chest. This loops until the remaining cars have enough to meet demand and it leaves the station with the first car empty.
Tzunamien wrote:Hello first of all I want to say that your station build is really great and i like to use it since I understood it. I wanna response too the thing that sqtsquiggs allready said, but it heapens for the mining outpost red as well.
I changed the Mining and UraniumOre Outpost Stations in Version 1.6.
In my Testmap they work fine.
Can you download and test them in your setup?
I removed alot of combinators and made them simplier and hopefully more robust.
Hello, I have the same problem here. Once the train has enough ore, it just unload the first wargon untill it has not enough ore. And reload - unload - reload - unload. I have tried the lastest version.

I also notice that the Uranium station keep requesting everything (walls etc.) even it has enough items. It also request all items if it missed any item. (missing 1 ammo, request everything including ammos, walls etc.) This works fine with the old version.

I am glad that you changed the wargon detector to automatic output wargon type. Life saving change when you are using mods. Good work.

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by tpreissler » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:44 am

Hi,

I was wondering, in the description of the Demo map it says "Trash-Provider" via the Depot - ?
I also noticed - and I don't know whether this is related - there is a Requester Chest wired up to the CN at the Uranium Ore outpost.

How does this work, how do I use this "Trash-Provider"?


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Thomas

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by tpreissler » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:50 am

tpreissler wrote:Hi,
I am wondering has anyone converted these into LHD?
I have converted all my train tracks to RHD. It feels a bit strange... but hey.

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Tzunamien » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:37 pm

Hi there,

i have tested your build for me and I think that everything works now but not from the beginning. I have the same problem, that a outpost is requesting more of the items than is set in the threshold. I have 5 outpost now on my map but 3 of 5 worked out of the box and for the 2 others i could solve the problem by rebuilding the combinators and roboports. The problem with ore loading to the chest at the outpost is still present, but it seems to be a sideeffect of a wrong station-config. I have allways replaced the stack size with the ore at the requester station and set the x to a number like -35000. The testmap showed me how to do it right :D. Anyways i have to set the maximum train-length to 4 instead of 6 like in your test map.

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Yinyang107 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:30 pm

This isn't working for me, and I can't figure out why. The depot and pickup seem to work fine, but the unloading station (Unloading-Rear-R) wont trigger any drop-offs. I have changed the x=1 on the constant combinator to copper ore=1, but nothing happens. If I setup a simple station with just a constant combinator set to -18000 linked to a LTN stop, then that one calls a train from the pickup just fine.

Pics:
Closeup of Drop-off
https://i.imgur.com/FO4LaHZ.png

Long shot of all Drop-off stations (only the second is set for anything)
https://imgur.com/2Cnd6GY

Ore pick-up, just in case that's the issue somehow
https://imgur.com/Ha40Uu0

Map of rail system (only the one mine and the set of drop-offs are linked to the LTN railways; the rest are still on simple schedules.)
https://i.imgur.com/Kl5aNvd.png

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by tpreissler » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:17 am

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Last edited by tpreissler on Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by tpreissler » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:18 am

Hi,
Yinyang107 wrote:This isn't working for me, and I can't figure out why. The depot and pickup seem to work fine, but the unloading station (Unloading-Rear-R) wont trigger any drop-offs. I have changed the x=1 on the constant combinator to copper ore=1, but nothing happens. If I setup a simple station with just a constant combinator set to -18000 linked to a LTN stop, then that one calls a train from the pickup just fine.
you did the right thing... the X=1 has to be replaced with "-18000" copper ore.
That's how it works. If a train comes and drops it off, that's all what's gonna happen.

Going forward... you have to make sure all of the following:
* train length's (min/max) at the requester/provider have to match. You can have different lengths, all have to be part of the configured intervals.
* trains have to be available with that matching length
* Unloading chests have to be wired up to the LTN station, or it will get stuck at some point - ie. the LTN station has to know how much ore you already have.

A few more things to consider:
* A requester should have a Provider Threshold of 1M, this is to prevent it from turning into a provider.
* The Provider Threshold at a Provider should be set to a train load - dependent on the type of item and the number of cargo.
* The Requester Threshold at a Requester should be a train load too, so that to trigger a train load again.

I have to admit I was a bit struggling using LTN at first, but now it's working brilliantly. The BP LTN-Stations helps a lots, the wiring is a bit tricky at first, still don't know it exactly how to do it by hand.

If you have further problems/questions I am happy to help.


HTH

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