Re: 4-way intersections: Throughput and deadlocks [image heavy]
Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:51 pm
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i forgot to ask were there any signal problems in the design i posted here 2-3 days ago?hansjoachim wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:51 pmYeah, It probably is. I put in a mechanism to prevent it in my merger.
It doesnt support turning left from the outer lane, and the throughput is very low. Why did you choose this design?immortal_sniper1 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:56 pmi forgot to ask were there any signal problems in the design i posted here 2-3 days ago?hansjoachim wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:51 pmYeah, It probably is. I put in a mechanism to prevent it in my merger.
it was a RHD conversion of a good LHD designhansjoachim wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:25 pmIt doesnt support turning left from the outer lane, and the throughput is very low. Why did you choose this design?immortal_sniper1 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:56 pmi forgot to ask were there any signal problems in the design i posted here 2-3 days ago?hansjoachim wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:51 pmYeah, It probably is. I put in a mechanism to prevent it in my merger.
The signals looks correct
How are you going to address the lack of left turns for the outer lane? Heavy use of lane switchers?immortal_sniper1 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:34 pm
it was a RHD conversion of a good LHD design
as i said i wasnt sure about the signals tehere is probably one that is on the wrong side deadlocking everything it did 71 so surely there is a signal problem ill look into it
viewtopic.php?f=194&t=46855&start=480
i reexamined the design concept from this forum and the inner lane cant go right and the outer one cant go lefthansjoachim wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:46 pmHow are you going to address the lack of left turns for the outer lane? Heavy use of lane switchers?immortal_sniper1 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:34 pm
it was a RHD conversion of a good LHD design
as i said i wasnt sure about the signals tehere is probably one that is on the wrong side deadlocking everything it did 71 so surely there is a signal problem ill look into it
viewtopic.php?f=194&t=46855&start=480
You could easily get much higher throughput with 2 lanes if the alternative is using this design.
I think the singal problem might be because of the right turns from the inner lane. There should be more chain signals there.
Really cool looking intersection, I like the amount of solarpanel/accumulators you have put in it.mobieh22 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:47 pmhttps://pastebin.com/178Qe8VZ this is an intersection I built, its meant for 3 car trains
No, it isn't great, but it's not especially below average for left turns. Of course, I'm not sure if this is necessarily the shortest case (and if it isn't, then it will have fairly bad throughput.hansjoachim wrote: ↑Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:07 amReally cool looking intersection, I like the amount of solarpanel/accumulators you have put in it.mobieh22 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:47 pmhttps://pastebin.com/178Qe8VZ this is an intersection I built, its meant for 3 car trains
For throughput, left turns are big problem. As if you have to take left turn you have to take a full round and block all other paths.
It also deadlocks very easily. I had it running for 30 sec before it completely deadlocked. You have to add some chain signals to prevent that from happening.mobieh22 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:47 pmhttps://pastebin.com/178Qe8VZ this is an intersection I built, its meant for 3 car trains
There also seem to be a few connections that can never be taken by a train. I mean the connection of the two loops. The two tracks go in opposite directions with neither train able to enter the connection. Why aren't the signals blinking there?hansjoachim wrote: ↑Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:39 amIt also deadlocks very easily. I had it running for 30 sec before it completely deadlocked. You have to add some chain signals to prevent that from happening.mobieh22 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:47 pmhttps://pastebin.com/178Qe8VZ this is an intersection I built, its meant for 3 car trains
signals are only blinking when a block isn´t entirely "enclosed" by signals on all ends, they dont tell what you found.mrvn wrote: ↑Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:13 pmThere also seem to be a few connections that can never be taken by a train. I mean the connection of the two loops. The two tracks go in opposite directions with neither train able to enter the connection. Why aren't the signals blinking there?hansjoachim wrote: ↑Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:39 amIt also deadlocks very easily. I had it running for 30 sec before it completely deadlocked. You have to add some chain signals to prevent that from happening.mobieh22 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:47 pmhttps://pastebin.com/178Qe8VZ this is an intersection I built, its meant for 3 car trains
In Set 1 it got 30 trains/minAlexAegis wrote: ↑Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:02 amClassic design 4 way 3 spacing 2 lane 1 picture:
Blueprint: https://factorioprints.com/view/-LWx8p9ga_BOerpE6Q1b
Throughput can reach around 50/m (with 2-4 trains) but my test map is different so it might not be precise. It's also deadlock free.
(I know it's very basic but haven't seen a 3 spacing, right hand drive version here)
The intersections are lacking a lot of signals. Trains that doesn't intersect has to wait for each other.nafira wrote: ↑Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:30 pmHi fellows
This is my setup that I made without checking in here before. I find pretty good, but there's some problems.
My trains drive on the right side, not left.
Pro :
+ No deadlock, impossible
+ Simultaneous 2*2 way train on long lanes is possible
+ Very compact
+ Modular
+ Use rounds to place factories or storage
+ Made for 2 wagons trains (perfect on that)
+ Extensible to 3 wagons
Cons :
- No loop
- Slows down trains a bit in very stretched areas
- Quite annoying if you have to shift the lanes
Hope it will help or give a better idea to someone !
That's about the worst setup you can make other than deadlocking. There can only ever be one train on the crossing and all other have to wait. Same for the lane changer. Which makes your 2 tracks identical to a single track. There can never be 2 trains in parallel. It just costs you nearly 3 times as much resources.nafira wrote: ↑Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:30 pmHi fellows
This is my setup that I made without checking in here before. I find pretty good, but there's some problems.
My trains drive on the right side, not left.
Pro :
+ No deadlock, impossible
+ Simultaneous 2*2 way train on long lanes is possible
+ Very compact
+ Modular
+ Use rounds to place factories or storage
+ Made for 2 wagons trains (perfect on that)
+ Extensible to 3 wagons
Cons :
- No loop
- Slows down trains a bit in very stretched areas
- Quite annoying if you have to shift the lanes
Sadly I don't know how can I improve this furtherhansjoachim wrote: ↑Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:52 amIn Set 1 it got 30 trains/minAlexAegis wrote: ↑Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:02 amClassic design 4 way 3 spacing 2 lane 1 picture:
Blueprint: https://factorioprints.com/view/-LWx8p9ga_BOerpE6Q1b
Throughput can reach around 50/m (with 2-4 trains) but my test map is different so it might not be precise. It's also deadlock free.
(I know it's very basic but haven't seen a 3 spacing, right hand drive version here)
It is also not correctly signaled. If one lane is blocked the entire intersection is blocked, as it lacks chain signals. It won't hard deadlock, though pretty close, it gets very congested.
If you fix the signals the throughput would increase
They wait indeed (I told so), but they don't deadlock, you can't say that ==>meaning manual interventionmrvn wrote: ↑Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:20 pmThat's about the worst setup you can make other than deadlocking. There can only ever be one train on the crossing and all other have to wait. Same for the lane changer. Which makes your 2 tracks identical to a single track. There can never be 2 trains in parallel. It just costs you nearly 3 times as much resources.nafira wrote: ↑Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:30 pmHi fellows
This is my setup that I made without checking in here before. I find pretty good, but there's some problems.
My trains drive on the right side, not left.
Pro :
+ No deadlock, impossible
+ Simultaneous 2*2 way train on long lanes is possible
+ Very compact
+ Modular
+ Use rounds to place factories or storage
+ Made for 2 wagons trains (perfect on that)
+ Extensible to 3 wagons
Cons :
- No loop
- Slows down trains a bit in very stretched areas
- Quite annoying if you have to shift the lanes
So I improved it with correct signals.