4-way intersections: Throughput and deadlocks [image heavy]

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tsiebecker
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Re: 4-way intersections: Throughput and deadlocks [image heavy]

Post by tsiebecker »

Kalanndok wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:23 am
On incoming line from the north there is a wrong rail signal.
Should be fixed in Blueprint, Picture is faulty

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Re: 4-way intersections: Throughput and deadlocks [image heavy]

Post by Omnifarious »

tsiebecker wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:04 am
You can, but not with RHD. Take mmmPI's layout, switch it to LHD, and you get full signalling.
Is there an analysis of how this compares with an ordinary LHD roundabout without the extra cross-tracks throught the middle of the circle?

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Re: 4-way intersections: Throughput and deadlocks [image heavy]

Post by mmmPI »

Omnifarious wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:59 am
Is there an analysis of how this compares with an ordinary LHD roundabout without the extra cross-tracks throught the middle of the circle?
Not that i know of, but it should yield pretty similar result to the "crossabout" vs "roundabout" shown in page 1. Given this is a smaller "crossabout".

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Re: 4-way intersections: Throughput and deadlocks [image heavy]

Post by foamy »

Omnifarious wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:59 am
tsiebecker wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:04 am
You can, but not with RHD. Take mmmPI's layout, switch it to LHD, and you get full signalling.
Is there an analysis of how this compares with an ordinary LHD roundabout without the extra cross-tracks throught the middle of the circle?
Not analytically, no. Observational practice from emplacing the RHD version in my factory is that it has significantly better flow compared to the plain roundabout, and the LHD version should be further superior to that.

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Re: 4-way intersections: Throughput and deadlocks [image heavy]

Post by Pyroguy »

Can someone test this junction for me? I have not seen this one around.

This is LHD for 11 car trains.
greatcrossv1.PNG
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Re: 4-way intersections: Throughput and deadlocks [image heavy]

Post by hansjoachim »

Updated the testbenchmap for 1.1
Thanks to Kano96 for updating the mod
viewtopic.php?f=194&t=94795&p=533570#p533570
Updated version of aaarghas intersection testbench. viewtopic.php?f=194&t=94795&p=533570#p533570
My Highscore intersections: https://pastebin.com/dGsJT71Z
Combinator Adaptable merger https://pastebin.com/aLPQQeei

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Re: 4-way intersections: Throughput and deadlocks [image heavy]

Post by Dimava »

Compact links are dead

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Re: 4-way intersections: Throughput and deadlocks [image heavy]

Post by xxJeevesxx »

Dimava wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:40 pm
Compact links are dead
It seems several links are dead. For those of you who are interested I complied a list using the wayback machine (scripting to the rescue). The attached has all the blueprint strings but also the link in case you can't read the full string. Hope it helps!
Attachments
intersectionData.csv
(935.81 KiB) Downloaded 350 times
Last edited by xxJeevesxx on Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 4-way intersections: Throughput and deadlocks [image heavy]

Post by SaiMoen »



I couldn't find this one in the two lane section
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Re: 4-way intersections: Throughput and deadlocks [image heavy]

Post by DaveMcW »

SaiMoen wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:47 pm
I couldn't find this one in the two lane section
That is similar to "Wide B" and "Crushed Wide".

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Re: 4-way intersections: Throughput and deadlocks [image heavy]

Post by Marco3104 »

Hello guys, i know this is a nooby question to ask, but i just dont unterstand all the mechanisms behind a clean 4-way intersection. I read some of the replys of this thread and also the original post. But i still struggle with finding a good interstection. I want to build a first time Cityblock base with a Rail based Cityblock design (every cityblock is seperated by rails). I want to design my own Cityblock but i realy struggle with the intersection in each corner of a Block. So i decided to look one up and found this thread. But the original post is so "old" and i dont know if those intersections are still "good" and most of them the link for the blueprint doesnt work.

So in the end iam just looking for a 4-way intersection which high throuput / size ratio (doesnt has to have the highest throuput just a one that isnt too bad and doenst deadlock itself). If someone could help me out or maybe knows a collection like in the original post (but with working links) that would be super nice.

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Re: 4-way intersections: Throughput and deadlocks [image heavy]

Post by NotRexButCaesar »

Marco3104 wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:59 pm
But the original post is so "old" and i dont know if those intersections are still "good" and most of them the link for the blueprint doesnt work.
All these intersections should still be just as good as before. Rail and chain signals still behave the same way.
Marco3104 wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:59 pm
So in the end iam just looking for a 4-way intersection which high throuput / size ratio (doesnt has to have the highest throuput just a one that isnt too bad and doenst deadlock itself). If someone could help me out or maybe knows a collection like in the original post (but with working links) that would be super nice.
What spacing of rails are you using? If you have 4 tiles between them, I would recommend the Celtic knot. If you have 6 or 8 tiles spacing, I would recommend this one or similar:
Up here wrote:
Thu May 11, 2017 12:03 am
[...]
(It can be compacted and therefore have more throughout at larger sizes)
: Alea jacta est. Determine what you intend to accomplish with an action before execution.
Have you ever heard the gospel? Most have not.

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Re: 4-way intersections: Throughput and deadlocks [image heavy]

Post by Marco3104 »

What spacing of rails are you using? If you have 4 tiles between them, I would recommend the Celtic knot. If you have 6 or 8 tiles spacing, I would recommend this one or similar:
Up here wrote:
Thu May 11, 2017 12:03 am
[...]
(It can be compacted and therefore have more throughout at larger sizes)
[/quote]

Thank you very much for your fast reply, highly appreciated!

Honestly it doesnt realy matter to me if the spacing is 6 or 8 tiles. My plan was from the start to use large Cityblocks. Untill now i always used the one from Nillaus (100x100) but they are too small for me. Therefore i searched for bigger ones like 7x7 chunk blocks. And i actually found those two here which i like, but i think the intersections in the corners have maybe low througput or maybe can cause deadlocks? Iam unsure becaus iam not confident enough to judge them and i think i also read somewhere that roundabouts are not optimal and can caus long waiting times. I liked them becaus they have the size that i like. Anway these are the two:

http://fbpviewer.trakos.pl/b/HsHC3NphUX ... AaYnVQBva4

http://fbpviewer.trakos.pl/b/dh6yFwUbse ... qhGzaXKzBU

And another one which smaller blocks only for the rails, which i realy like, but i only have a picture and cant find the intersection he used:

https://i.imgur.com/KV5ykTC.jpeg


In the End i though to myself i can design one with the size i like, but for that i need a intersection with hight throuput and low deadlock potential. Therefore I wanted to ask maybe by coincedence you know one with 4 rails in each direction like the one you suggested already. If not i will orientate myself on the ones from the original post and take one of those :D

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Re: 4-way intersections: Throughput and deadlocks [image heavy]

Post by NotRexButCaesar »

Marco3104 wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:48 pm
Therefore I wanted to ask maybe by coincedence you know one with 4 rails in each direction like the one you suggested already. If not i will orientate myself on the ones from the original post and take one of those :D
Mine looks like this:


image
Here are the rest of my rail blueprints if you would like to see them:
https://github.com/AmericanPatriot6f0/F ... %20Network
: Alea jacta est. Determine what you intend to accomplish with an action before execution.
Have you ever heard the gospel? Most have not.

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Re: 4-way intersections: Throughput and deadlocks [image heavy]

Post by urgency »

xxJeevesxx wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:19 pm
Dimava wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:40 pm
Compact links are dead
It seems several links are dead. For those of you who are interested I complied a list using the wayback machine (scripting to the rescue). The attached has all the blueprint strings but also the link in case you can't read the full string. Hope it helps!
Thank you for this! It seems like half the blueprint pastebins these days are down. Really frustrating. I wonder what happened.

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Re: 4-way intersections: Throughput and deadlocks [image heavy]

Post by urgency »

btw if anyone is interested I made a variation on Tallinu's Whirlpool design which uses my preferred track spacing (2 empty rail tiles in between, rather than 3). It's RHD, sized for 6-car trains, and allows U-turns. I just tested it and it has comparable throughput to the original. A few tpm lower for some reason, but very solid. Also has the kind of nice property that it fits perfectly around exactly tiled roboports:
Screen Shot 2021-03-11 at 6.23.50 PM.png
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Re: 4-way intersections: Throughput and deadlocks [image heavy]

Post by MEOWMI »

xxJeevesxx wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:19 pm
Dimava wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:40 pm
Compact links are dead
It seems several links are dead. For those of you who are interested I complied a list using the wayback machine (scripting to the rescue). The attached has all the blueprint strings but also the link in case you can't read the full string. Hope it helps!
Huge thanks for this! (I haven't tested all of them but a few I tried work just fine.)

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Re: 4-way intersections: Throughput and deadlocks [image heavy]

Post by mrvn »

<X> wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 5:05 pm
pew. 34 pages are a lot. But I haven't found the one I was building on the first page. Ive struggled with building a non-roundabout intersection within 1 city block, where 1-4 trains are able to wait between 2 train signals. And I came up with this beautiful flower:
train-intersection.jpg

It's compact and a lot better than the basic intersection or roundabout. I like it so far



[EDIT] There are chain signals at the entry, of course, but they're behind the path, so that the path stays free, if the train has to wait
I would have made the inside square a bit bigger and put the radar right in the middle.

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