178-1780-178 Fluid Wagons with Aligned Stops

Smart setups of railway stations, intelligent routing, solutions to complex train-routing problems.
Please provide - only if it makes sense of course - a blueprint of your creation.
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adam_bise
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178-1780-178 Fluid Wagons with Aligned Stops

Post by adam_bise »

Ever wanted a train with 1780 fluid wagons? No? Well, if you did for some odd reason, here is one way.

There are 25 stops, each stop is accompanied by an s-curve.
1780-1.png
1780-1.png (311.6 KiB) Viewed 1329 times
Aligning the pumps proved impossible. I had to mod the pump to get it to work: https://mods.factorio.com/mod/fluid-wagon-curved-rails
1780-2.png
1780-2.png (1.57 MiB) Viewed 1329 times
The load lane is 89 wagons long.
1780-3.png
1780-3.png (1.13 MiB) Viewed 1329 times
This train carries 44.5M fluid
1780-4.png
1780-4.png (1.74 MiB) Viewed 1329 times
Here's the blueprint.
128-1780-178.txt
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Re: 178-1780-178 Fluid Wagons with Aligned Stops

Post by adam_bise »

Here is a 27-324-27 mining train with 14 positions and 27 loaders.

The train will carry 648K ore.
3.png
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Modded stock to make all of the inserters work. https://mods.factorio.com/mod/loco-collision-box

BP:
3.txt
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aka13
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Re: 178-1780-178 Fluid Wagons with Aligned Stops

Post by aka13 »

I have built a similar artillery train, but encountered the issue, that such a train is a real danger to intersections and especially to itself. Have you used your train ingame, or is it a proof of concept thing?
Genuinely curious.
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Re: 178-1780-178 Fluid Wagons with Aligned Stops

Post by adam_bise »

Trying to insert such a train into popular double rail setups with many short interchanges and small blocks will have issues.

I can tell you the only way to be absolutely safe if to ensure that any circular paths that your artillery train could take, that their blocks are larger than the train.

You could also try using circuits to shut down circular paths when deploying a large artillery train.

My rails are built in sort of a spoke setup. All of my bases are built extremely far apart from each other. I have made some rather unusual rules for this playthough. Circular paths wind up being very large. Probably on the order of 8-10k rails. All of my rails are single rail with double headed trains. All stops are terminating. The train does take up quite a bit of track, but when it enters an outpost it starts by coiling up and freeing the block. My blocks are also quite large. The whole setup demands as little rail traffic as possible which is why I use such large trains.

That being said, I've just begun building the 1780 train outside of the editor. I haven't actually used it yet. I do intend to use the 1780 train to deliver water to a steam plant.

It is hard to see in the picture, but you can see where I've begun building the 1780 water train and the destination will be the steam plant.
4.png
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Re: 178-1780-178 Fluid Wagons with Aligned Stops

Post by aka13 »

Thank you for the expanded answer. I came to more or less the same conclusions, although since the stops are so specific for that one specific train, there is not much, that could go wrong.
I also considered laying a separate track specifically for that train only, but I have since then abandoned that save.

I am curious, how are you laying track through biter land so frivolously? Do they not expand in your save?
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Re: 178-1780-178 Fluid Wagons with Aligned Stops

Post by mmmPI »

My guess is that the biters think the trains are just giant caterpillar and are peaceful toward them, or maybe they just fear the sheer size.

Another explanation could be that biters notoriously hates water, they cannot swim, and do not expand over water. Maybe they do realize the giant train is actively removing lakes seas and oceans overtime , 44M water at a time and consider it friendly.

It's rather lucky because if one wagon were to be destroyed by biters it would take quite long to find where and maybe even more to replace it and reconnect the train.

On the other hand with 44M water you have enough for 63 rocket launch. If you were to consider the amount of water required for the oil processing and cracking without productivity module.

But if you use 44M water for energy that's different. That's enough for a single steam engine to run for at least 200 hours. or 10 steam engine for 20 hours if you are willing to move the train 10 times more often.

Maybe it's better to consider 44M water as 44M potential steam. Which in the case of 165°C steam would represent 1320 GJ. and in case of 500°C steam it would be 4268GJ.

And if you were to move the fluid train once a day, then with 4268 GJ of energy , you could get around 50MW of electricity on average. That's assuming you move the water to a nuclear plant.

But if you plan on using 165°C steam, you would require some additionnial fuel ( and not the nuclear fuel ). In order to transform 44M 15°C water into 44M 165°C steam, 1320GJ are required, which represent 330 000 coal, or 110 000 solid fuel , which is around 165 wagon of coal or 55 wagon of solid fuel.

Interestingly the mining train in the thread is 324 wagon which is almost 165*2=330, this means in order to move the giant 1780 fluid-wagon train full of water twice to move it to a boiler/Steam engine steup using coal, a mining train full of that coal would not be enough by a short margin but maybe it's due to my roundings. This was just to try and get an idea of the magnitude :).

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Re: 178-1780-178 Fluid Wagons with Aligned Stops

Post by adam_bise »

aka13 wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 4:02 pm
I am curious, how are you laying track through biter land so frivolously? Do they not expand in your save?
They do expand. I've found they don't try to expand close to rails. Very rarely they will expand just close enough that a passing train will aggro biters. But that hasn't happened yet in this save. Mostly I just squeeze by the existing biter bases when possible. I try to stay just out of behemoth worm range. Also, I had already researched rockets and use a mod to make laying rails though biter nests a little easier. https://mods.factorio.com/mod/rockets-more-range

As for the enemy settings, I use all default except 0 time and 0 pollution factor and 2 destroy factor. So, I can destroy 100x more biter bases than normal before they will evolve.
mmmPI wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 4:40 pm
Maybe they do realize the giant train is actively removing lakes seas and oceans overtime
Lol! Perhaps! The water is for boiler steam generation. The number just came from 10x offshore pumps in one hour. The steam plant then sends trains of steam to outposts so they can be used directly by engines and without the boiler pollution. The steam plant is made in the middle of a thick forest for absorbing pollution.

My goal is to minimize rail traffic as much as possible by using absurdly large trains and moving large quantities of items at once. I also would like to keep the blocks large to prevent trains from stopping outside of protected intersections.

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