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3 and 4 way intersections

https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?f=194&t=100614

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Re: 3 and 4 way intersections

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2022 10:45 pm
by Avona
Tallinu wrote: ↑
Sat Jul 30, 2022 11:31 am
 I wonder if you could put in a header at the 92 position for "MultiCross Expanded: 92" with a "See below" link
...
I'm fine with the way the four listed blueprints are linked to factoriobin. Just wanted to have a link added below
I don't believe that the script supports a "see below" link (and I'm not sure if I really want such a listing for aesthetics reasons...?). I've just posted them under the MC Expanded header.

I've put the link in the official comment, which is between the header and listings.

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections

Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 9:11 pm
by Tallinu
Alright. That looks good, thanks!

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections

Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 5:26 am
by clorine
I really like the Hurricane v1.2 by Avona. Good throughput with a small footprint.
So I made a 4-tile rail gap adaption and thought I'd share it for all the other 4-gappers out there,
even though the design work is not my own, maybe it saves others from spending time remodeling.

Hope this is Ok, not trying to steal the lime light or any credits ;) Thanx Avona for the original design!

Hurricane v1.2 by Avona RHT Adapted to 4 tile rail spacing variant
https://factoriobin.com/post/LN1tbcUT

Hurricane v1.2 by Avona LHT Adapted to 4 tile rail spacing variant
https://factoriobin.com/post/ZEsBdzR6

148x148 footprint
4-tile rail gap
1 to 6 wagons

I tested it (Throughput tester v5.2.3, game version 1.1.65) a few times just to make sure it is at least close to the original in performance and the adaption is doing Ok but maybe the signaling could be made better :roll:

Preliminary testing scores

Code: Select all

RHT Variant
Score:	 Avg.	 S1.	 S2.	 S3
Run1	102.15	105.93	105.66	 94.86
Run2	102.06	104.26	103.73	 98.20
Run4	103.57	108.80	103.86	 98.06
Run3	101.37	104.80	104.33	 95.00
LHT Variant
Score:	  Avg.	 S1.	 S2.	 S3.
Run1	103.06	106.20	104.8	 98.20
Run2	104.06	106.06	106.06	100.06
Run3	103.32	108.86	105.66	 95.46
Run4	102.44	106.66	103.06	 97.60
edit: Added a LHD variant
edit2: Damit... were calling it LHT now... Fixed!

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections

Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:14 am
by Avona
clorine wrote: ↑
Sat Aug 13, 2022 5:26 am
Hope this is Ok, not trying to steal the lime light or any credits ;)
I am absolutely fine with adaptations of all of my intersections. When I have adapted others' intersections (generally for LHT) I just put "Designed by [insert person here]. Adapted for LHT by Avona." or something similar. Great job adapting it! I wasn't sure that there was an interest for it or I would have done it myself :lol:

I don't have time to test the intersection today or even tomorrow, but I'll test and post it soon unless one of the others gets to it first. :D

You mention the signaling. I can go over it if you want. Taking a quick glance, it seems fine but I can check in-game as well.

Are you interested in producing an LHT version as well since you made this? We're trying to be inclusive of those who drive on the other side of the road.

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections

Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2022 8:42 am
by clorine
Avona wrote: ↑
Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:14 am
 I don't have time to test the intersection today or even tomorrow, but I'll test and post it soon unless one of the others gets to it first. :D
No rush testing it on my behalf, it's in the ballpark of the original so god enough for me ;) But yes, a sanity check would be great^^
Avona wrote: ↑
Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:14 am
 You mention the signaling. I can go over it if you want. Taking a quick glance, it seems fine but I can check in-game as well.
Signaling is probably "ok", I mean it works. But maybe an extra TMP or two can be gained by an experienced rail wizard moving/adding/removing some of the Christmas lights.
Avona wrote: ↑
Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:14 am
 Are you interested in producing an LHT version as well since you made this? We're trying to be inclusive of those who drive on the other side of the road.
Well not really... LHT really trips my brain for some reason, but I made one anyway, keep the old noggin alive, right.. :)
I edited my first post and added blueprint link and preliminary score for the LHT variant.

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:28 pm
by Avona
I've tested both intersections with M = 90. And they tested 104 and 103 which seemed good to me. They have been posted under the hurricane header next to mine and given design credit as "clorine".
clorine wrote: ↑
Sun Aug 14, 2022 8:42 am
 But maybe an extra TMP or two can be gained by an experienced rail wizard moving/adding/removing some of the Christmas lights.
I did look over the signals and found a couple of possible changes but thought they would make little difference. I tested the intersections without signal changes.
Center hash signals
Additional train spaces

Nightmare 3 way intersection RHD

Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 1:11 am
by toasterwaffles
This intersection only works with 3 cars or less

I made this intersection to plug into Nilaus' city block base design and he uses 3 car trains for his city block bases. I'm brand new to factorio so don't be surprised if I messed up the signaling. If anyone else could find a higher throughput 3-way crossing that fits into a 100 by 100 space that'd be cool.
design.PNG
design.PNG (640.75 KiB) Viewed 5265 times
Nighmare: 88.66 TPM average over 3 tests (3 car trains)

Intersection used by Nilaus: 73.09 TPM (3 car trains)

To make the logistic network I had to do some roboport shifting. The logistic network no longer makes a perfect 100 by 100 square and I had to add a 5th roboport to connect them all. Might work on improving this in a later design but it's not a priority. This only works for 3 car trains, anything longer than that is absolute trash performance.

It's a little better, but probably not worth implementing. Working on some better designs.

Nightmare


Nightmare With roboports and power



Nilaus original intersection

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections

Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 5:20 pm
by Avona
Image
Overall, it's not poorly signaled but I have some suggestions. The yellow dots are where chain signals should be added. The chain before the red circled rail is needed to stop trains from blocking the crossing traffic. The red circled rail indicates a block that a train's back end will still into when stopped at the chain further along on the track. This will block the other crossing track nearer to the entrance. Tracks would need to be moved to allow the other chain signals suggestions. The red X is where a chain needs to be deleted (It creates a small exit block and also is useless regardless). The blue circles indicate exit blocks that are too small to hold length 3 trains, creating deadlock possibilities.

If you're looking for this intersection to be included in the OP, the standard train length is 6 (2 locomotives, 4 wagons) so that the test results can be compared.

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections

Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 9:41 pm
by toasterwaffles
Thanks for the suggestions. I'll work on fixing it up. I might make a sized-up version to fit the 6-car train but ill work on the signaling first.

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:15 pm
by warbaque
My goal was to make in-place buffered upgrade for Symmetrical Cross 4- or 3-way intersection.
Also my rails are aligned to 48x48 grid, so intersection had to fit inside 5 such nodes.

Results if intersection is built as stand alone or if middle rails are removed after upgrade:

Code: Select all

Set 1   76
Set 2   64
Set 3   57
-----
Score   66
Results if just built on top of old intersection:

Code: Select all

Set 1   74
Set 2   57
Set 3   53
-----
Score   62
Size: 134x134

Media:


Video
unbuffered.png
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buffered+unbuffered.png
buffered+unbuffered.png (5.78 MiB) Viewed 5129 times

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:03 pm
by Avona
warbaque wrote: ↑
Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:15 pm

Code: Select all

Set 1   76
Set 2   64
Set 3   57
-----
Score   66
Results if just built on top of old intersection:

Code: Select all

Set 1   74
Set 2   57
Set 3   53
-----
Score   62
I've posted your intersection, however my results were each 3 lower. I'm guessing that it's because I put safe exit blocks on it, which I believe are needed.

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 10:11 pm
by warbaque
I'm guessing that it's because I put safe exit blocks on it, which I believe are needed.
Are they? Each exit already has room for 1 train from each direction, without blocking.

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections

Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:57 pm
by Kivan
Nice to see so many creative people.

I've been on and off factorio for 5 years now, just found out about this thread, cool stuff.

So here is my 4 way rhd 44x44.

Score 63



https://ibb.co/0VsR90P

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections

Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 6:55 pm
by hansjoachim
Kivan wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:57 pm
 Nice to see so many creative people.

I've been on and off factorio for 5 years now, just found out about this thread, cool stuff.

So here is my 4 way rhd 44x44.

Score 63
Hey man
So a nice intersection.
But it doesn't fit the forum as all intersections on here allow every lane to go in every direction.

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:55 am
by JP_1979
https://factoriobin.com/post/8-lQO5cL
FactorioBin : Can anyone fill in the blanks?

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:57 pm
by sparr
hansjoachim wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 28, 2022 6:55 pm
it doesn't fit the forum as all intersections on here allow every lane to go in every direction.
I, too, was shocked to discover that this is not true. It comes up occasionally on Discord. Apparently a lot of folks have been contributing intersections without that trait for a while now, and the years I was gone from Factorio led me to miss that trend.

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2022 5:14 pm
by hansjoachim
sparr wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:57 pm
hansjoachim wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 28, 2022 6:55 pm
it doesn't fit the forum as all intersections on here allow every lane to go in every direction.
I, too, was shocked to discover that this is not true. It comes up occasionally on Discord. Apparently a lot of folks have been contributing intersections without that trait for a while now, and the years I was gone from Factorio led me to miss that trend.
Which intersections lacks that?

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 4:19 am
by sparr
4lane BufferedSuperCompact

For a right turn, the inside lane can only exit to the outside lane and vice versa.
For going straight or a left turn, the inside lane can only exit to the inside lane, and the outside lane to the outside lane.

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:28 pm
by Tallywort
sparr wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 18, 2022 4:19 am
 4lane BufferedSuperCompact

For a right turn, the inside lane can only exit to the outside lane and vice versa.
For going straight or a left turn, the inside lane can only exit to the inside lane, and the outside lane to the outside lane.
That's still all directions though (aside from turning backwards) , just lacking the ability to swap between lanes.

And IIRC Lane swaps tend to be bad as they lead to trains blocking both lanes for little gain.

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2022 3:22 pm
by causa-sui
Tallywort wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:28 pm
 And IIRC Lane swaps tend to be bad as they lead to trains blocking both lanes for little gain.
This matches my experience. Trains feel free to switch lanes without any awareness of what is behind them, which causes a loss of throughput for no benefit.
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