Control Drone Ration with single "Logic Gate" (Combinator Free!)

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Cheata
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Control Drone Ration with single "Logic Gate" (Combinator Free!)

Post by Cheata » Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:33 am

I was watching the Hydra Dilemma series and saw -root put together a logic gate system for controlling the build ration of drones.
An exultant idea but the method he used seems to be overly complicated to me Plus I don't like the idea of forcing the factories to build only 1 type of drone at a time as it really slows down the production rate.

To that end i came up with the following build using just one logic gate and controlling the factory output rather than input.
3-1bots single gate.jpg
3-1bots single gate.jpg (186.14 KiB) Viewed 4766 times
Note that there is no chest between the blue and green output inserters because we only want them to transfer one item at a time otherwise the ratio fails completely once inserter stack size is researched.

The green output inserters could be placed on the input with the same settings (as long as they only pull 1 item at a time) if you prefer to limit your input.

enjoy and let me know if u can spot any improvements
Last edited by ssilk on Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: changed topic to fit subject better

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Re: Control Drone Ration with single "Logic Gate"

Post by sbroadbent » Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:00 am

This looks very interesting. A much simpler and compact design if I understand how each of the smart inserters works. I presume it can be adjusted based on the ratio desired, for instance 3:2 (or perhaps 5:4) Logistics:Construction?
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Re: Control Drone Ration with single "Logic Gate"

Post by -root » Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:39 am

Cheata wrote:An exultant idea but the method he used seems to be overly complicated to me Plus I don't like the idea of forcing the factories to build only 1 type of drone at a time as it really slows down the production rate.
Sick design mate.

The reason I only do one drone at a time is because the flying robot frames are the limiting factor. You can crunch out millions of drones very quickly. The frames themselves take the longest. I figured having only factory over a long period of time would work fine because then I didn't have to come back and turn off the frame factory. It would be very easy to overproduce drones.

Are you putting those frames on the ground and then having them put into the final chest?

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Re: Control Drone Ration with single "Logic Gate"

Post by Cheata » Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:01 am

I presume it can be adjusted based on the ratio desired, for instance 3:2 (or perhaps 5:4) Logistics:Construction?
It certainly can i should have pointed that out in the first post,
Unfortunately u need to make changes in both the output inserters and in the logic gate but i consider this to be a small price to pay for a more compact and simpler design.

The reset filter needs to be set in the logic gate (circled in red on the left hand image)

and the 2 output inserters on the factory need to be adjusted (circled in red and blue on the right hand image)

for a 3 : 2 ratio set the logic reset inserter (left red) to
logistic bot > 2, construction bot > 1
and the output inserters
Construction (right red) Construction Bot < 2
logistic (right blue) logistic bot < 3

for a 5 to 4 ratio
logistic bot > 4, construction bot > 3
and the output inserters
Construction (right red) Construction Bot < 4
logistic (right blue) logistic bot < 5

Are you putting those frames on the ground and then having them put into the final chest?
actually because im working with output its the finished drones that im dropping on the ground and then into the chest to prevent the inserters from picking up more than one at a time. (which screws up the ratios) this is handled in your build -root by controlling the drone frame input from a belt.
The reason I only do one drone at a time is because the flying robot frames are the limiting factor. You can crunch out millions of ........
yep im aware of this and you can convert my system to input control with a little rearranging of the chests and inserters (this may however take up a little more room) just as long as you only pick up 1 frame at a time. The main reason i went with output control is because i prefer to increase the supply of drone frames to match production (either with speed modules or more factories)

If people request ill put together an input controlled version and post a screenshot.

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Re: Control Drone Ration with single "Logic Gate"

Post by HeilTec » Sun Aug 17, 2014 1:12 pm

Cheata wrote:I was watching the Hydra Dilemma series and saw -root put together a logic gate system for controlling the build ration of drones. (...)
Watching the same series I too (like many others) took a closer look at that trolling design.

You are to be commended on two levels.
  • Very economical compact design with fairly easy setting
  • Screenshot composition with all relevant data visible is very well done.
I was thinking of methods to control the flow of resources in general. When the raw materials are the limiting factor the output of most regular designs will oscillate as one section uses all materials until it gets backed up and subsequently let resources pass on to other parts.
By splitting the incoming goods in the ratios needed for high priority production a more steady flow may be obtained. It may not change the total output, but will prevent periods of no products available. I have yet to see anyone do such things.
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Re: Control Drone Ration with single "Logic Gate"

Post by DerivePi » Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:13 pm

http://i.imgur.com/spUT7Ez.jpg

This is what I proposed for an input control. Currently, the robots are produced at a base speed of 1 sec. As -root noted, the robot frames are the controlling factor (I believe they take 20 sec).

https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... &start=170

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Re: Control Drone Ration with single "Logic Gate"

Post by Cheata » Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:34 pm

Not a bad system there Derive flows fairly well and i like the idea of buffering the frames before the factory's to give simultaneous production and completely removing all the output monitoring

the modification i was considering to my design would have left the double output chest to check the ratio after construction where as this design checks it before construction.

one thing you may need to look at though is if you have a shortage of the other resources (red/green chips) one of the bot factories could back up destroying the ratio, at least until it cant input any more frames into the backed up factory.

Ill have to test this and see how bad it would get

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Re: Control Drone Ration with single "Logic Gate"

Post by -root » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:38 am

HeilTec wrote:By splitting the incoming goods in the ratios needed for high priority production a more steady flow may be obtained. It may not change the total output, but will prevent periods of no products available. I have yet to see anyone do such things.
I revised my design to do this. By removing the batching portion, it allows for steady production of whatever.

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Re: Control Drone Ration with single "Logic Gate"

Post by HeilTec » Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:38 am

-root wrote:
HeilTec wrote:By splitting the incoming goods (...) see anyone do such things.
I revised my design to do this. By removing the batching portion, it allows for steady production of whatever.
Did I miss a video of that?
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Re: Control Drone Ration with single "Logic Gate"

Post by -root » Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:14 am

It was the design i did for the hydra dilemma. my explanation video ended up being an out dated version after i thought about the design more and had it in game for a little while.

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Re: Control Drone Ration with single "Logic Gate"

Post by DerivePi » Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:05 pm

Cheata wrote: one thing you may need to look at though is if you have a shortage of the other resources (red/green chips) one of the bot factories could back up destroying the ratio, at least until it cant input any more frames into the backed up factory.
The toggle switch won't reset until all 4 of the Robot Bodies have been fed into the assemblers. With a sustained shortage of other resources (circuits and advanced circuits), the assembler won't receive anymore robot bodies and they will be stuck in the smart chests until the material flows again. The assemblers will receive 2 (I believe) before halting, but this won't affect the ratio.

Let me know how your test goes!

Next test, controlling the production of batteries vs, advanced circuits as they are limited by Petro :)

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Re: Control Drone Ration with single "Logic Gate"

Post by -root » Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:02 pm

That's easy.

What ratio do you want?

Also, I normally go with a ratio of moar:moar. Can never have enough of either.

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Re: Control Drone Ration with single "Logic Gate"

Post by DerivePi » Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:25 pm

-root wrote:That's easy.

What ratio do you want?
Good point, too easy. How about balancing the production of Blue Science and Module Level 3s as it relates to Petro use?

Let's say we want 1 effectivity/productivity/speed module level 3 for every 100 blue science. So a ratio of 100 batteries to 205 advanced circuits to 25 processing units - 20-41-5 Say, 4 to 8 to 1.

Of course, at some point, you just let the production flood the storage and then balance the system at the next level of production.

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Re: Control Drone Ration with single "Logic Gate"

Post by -root » Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:21 pm

Again, this is all easy stuff.

All you need is a count, a check and a reset.

Hook your smart inserter inputs up to the logic board and you're good to go.

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Re: Control Drone Ration with single "Logic Gate"

Post by sbroadbent » Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:51 am

Cheata wrote:Unfortunately u need to make changes in both the output inserters and in the logic gate but i consider this to be a small price to pay for a more compact and simpler design.
Having just got around to setting this up, I've got a pretty easy way to remember what to change the settings to depending on what sort of ratio you are going for.

The green/red wire setting on the reset switch has to be set to be 1 less than the numbers in your ratio: a 10:3 Ratio would have setting of 9 and 2.
The Logistic Bot and Construction Bot settings have to be equal to the number of Bots of each type you want in your ratio.

Fortunately configuring the settings makes the system far more customizable depending on whether you want to produce more Logistic Bots or Construction Bots at any one time without having to make structural changes to the system.
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Re: Control Drone Ration with single "Logic Gate"

Post by JoshLittle » Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:22 pm

I still don't know what reasons a fixed robot ratio could have. One frame-factory, and one for each type of robots. Frame-output is limited to a line of stacks (or not limited because of its speed) and each of the two robot outputs allows only one stack. Instead of pumping some kind of ratio directly into a roboport you can go there and grab the type of robot you need (one or both), let them fly, and they will produce more. They also can be in a passive provider to be delivered to the player - if this is preferable. This is a dynamic ratio according to the playstyle. A fixed ratio for robots has really no sense.
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Re: Control Drone Ration with single "Logic Gate"

Post by DerivePi » Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:28 pm

JoshLittle wrote:I still don't know what reasons a fixed robot ratio could have. One frame-factory, and one for each type of robots. Frame-output is limited to a line of stacks...
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Re: Control Drone Ration with single "Logic Gate"

Post by Cheata » Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:41 pm

At the end of the day a 3 to 1 ratio of drone frames can be created using 2 splitters
>====================== 3
>>|^|
> ================= 1


but some of us like to play around with logic systems and see what the game can do :)

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Re: Control Drone Ration with single "Logic Gate"

Post by darkminaz » Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:30 am

not trying to nitpick to mutch
buuut well thats me

woudn't it be way easyer if you just created 1 requester box
(same if questions) but change the fast inserters to smart inserters and only let it move in the flying frame to what is needed?
then get the fast inserters to put in in a active provider chest -> they send the robots to the player

atleast thats how i did it until i had enough construct bots and decided to only stick with the logistic bots (that i turn on and off whenever i see that i need more) currently try to not overbuild them again ;D

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Re: Control Drone Ration with single "Logic Gate"

Post by Cheata » Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:53 am

so build 50 drones if there are less than 50 in the network.

yep that's really simple and works for most people however we like to be clever bastards and automate everything to the point of stupidity :D

now if only we could test on how many bots of each type we have active we would never have to turn a factory on or off again..... well that and some kind of automatic valve and tank level testing for the liquid system.



EDIT you will probably find most of the people working with these complex automation systems have some sort of background in programming. EDIT

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