Single circular belt factory

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ske
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Single circular belt factory

Post by ske »

I have been experimenting with easy setups for producing many different items. One obvious solution is the logistic network with requester/provider chests. In my opinion this is too easy and gets boring too fast. Also, you first have to research the logistic network and invest considerable amounts of resources to build up capacity. Instead, I want something belt-based.

Ideally, I'd like a circular belt where I can directly control the number of items. See the idea https://forums.factorio.com/forum/viewtop ... =6&t=18953 for some more details. Since this is not available, we need some other solution to count (or at least estimate) the number of items on a belt.

The best solution I've found so far is by using one smart chest per item type. In the smart chest disable all slots except one to ensure that only one item type gets stored per smart chest. Use a fast inserter to for insertion and a slow inserter for extraction back to the belt.

A simple example with just 2 items (red and green science pack):
Image
http://i.imgur.com/VTUKbMI.png

Here you see two smart chests are filled with red/green science packs. The slow inserters put one time on the circular belt every second or so. This puts a dozen or so items on the belt and ten more are in the chests. The science pack generation is controlled via a connected signal and when the number of science packs in the chets falls below a threshold (=0 in this case) extra items are fed into the system.

This system is easily extendable to all four science packs without adding a second belt.

Now to a more complex example, the creation of the red and green science packs:
Image
http://i.imgur.com/tk2sB2P.jpg

Compared to the last example we now have more items, therefore we need more smart chests. You see one chest for every item except copper and iron. They need two chests because the threshold is set to two stacks of items. This increases the rate of copper/iron plates on the circular belt.

The copper and iron plates are fed into the system from the bottom chests. One inserter starts when there are zero items in the chest and the other starts when there is less than a full stack in the chest. Right now there are enough plates in the system, so these inserters stand still.

The circular belt is quite full due to the high number of different items, but there is still enough space left so that everything runs smoothly.

When you follow through the production street you see, that they follow item assemblers are placed in the order the items are processed. First gears, then belts, then inserters, then science packs. First coils, then circuit boards, then green science. Some assemblers are not yet used.

The output of each assembler has a smart inserter. It is activated when the number of produced items in the smart chests is zero.

For example gearwheels. When the science pack production starts, the gearwheels on the belt are consumed. In the chest there are still about 10 gearwheels which are put on the belt via the slow inserter. When the chest is empty, the inserter at the gearwheel assembler is activated ramping up production of gearwheels. Due to the placement of the producing assembler in front of the consumers, they will consume gearwheels until the need is satisified and some reach the smart chest. When storage builds up, the smart inserter stops and production is halted.

This makes for a fine balance with only about 10-20 items of each type being held on the belt and in storage.

The last smart chest has a special role. When the power runs out, the items jam at the end of the belt out of order. The last smart chest has all slots activated and can store all types of items. It is kind of a "catchall" in case something goes wrong or too many different types of items are on the belt. When the power is restored it takes a short while until everything is is in order again and every item has its corresponding chest. In my experience, this setup is robust and does not jam up even at power outages or high demand scenarios when the smart inserters are setup correctly.

With red or blue belts, the number of different items doubles or quadruples and many different items can be produced using only a single circular.

Similar to the setup for the science packs, an ammo belt can be built for supplying turrets without actually filling a long, long, belt entirely. Using a smart inserter and a clock circuit, the distance between items can be increased.

Putting high volume items like plates on the same belt as low volume products is a bit inefficient. To increase throughput, these could be supplied to the assemblers via a separate belt.

In my opinion this kind of setup is a good way to escape the belt madness when producing many different items. It already makes sense for red and green science packs and results in a compact production street which can easily be extended. The only gripe i have is that currently you cannot count the number of items placed on the belts, but I have hopes that the Circuit Network Connector http://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-123 one day makes this possible. This would eliminate the need for smart chests and decrease the number of items on the belt considerably. Then it would be possible to make an efficient factory for just-in-time production of all items you need without resorting to the logistic network.

I'm happy to respond to questions, critique and ideas for extension.

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Narnach
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Re: Single circular belt factory

Post by Narnach »

That's an interesting design!

I've experimented with circular designs in the past, but they usually ground to a halt when the belt got too full.
Your use of smart inserters & per-item buffer chests to regulate factory output seems to help alleviate that problem.

How far have you managed to push this concept?
After green science it gets tricky due to oil industry needing pipes everywhere, so that's where it gets interesting :-)
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Re: Single circular belt factory

Post by Neotix »

I have seen that kind of factory while ago. There was even movie with explanation how it all works.

ske
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Re: Single circular belt factory

Post by ske »

@Neotix:
Can you supply a link to the video or a forum post?

@Narnach:
I've been experimenting with similar designs for a while but the current reincarnation is the most simple (and best) so far.

I've built a factory producing many things using a red belt loop. See the two screenshots:
Overview
Detail
Items which are needed for producing other items are kept in circulation but end products are filtered out (bottom left). This is about as big as it gets with red belts for circulating items. End products, could, of course be increased as needed.

Science packs are filtered out from the loop and are forwarded to the research loop as needed. Only one belt is needed for all science packs and usually only a low inventory of about 10-20 items is kept.

Iron, copper, steel and green circuits are inserted via two central belts in order to increase the throughput. Those items are also included in the circulation. One problem is supplying green circuits and copper wire as they are high volume items. So I've built additional ciruit assemblers outside the loop and placed several inside the loop. For the red circuits a hybrid approach for the red circuits would be useful. E.g. supply copper cable and green circuits separately but keep the plastic and red circuits on a circular belt.

The throughput of the whole factory is just about enough to keep all science assemblers running simultaneously.

One problem I've found is syncing up the slow inserters to fill the red belt optimally. Usually they leave many gaps which decreases overall throughput. I've created the splitter-thing for the first two inserters to generate some randomness which helps a bit syncing up through some forced delays.

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Re: Single circular belt factory

Post by Neotix »

I didn't find forum post but here is YT video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYpE8P4GFbA

ske
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Re: Single circular belt factory

Post by ske »

Neotix wrote:I didn't find forum post but here is YT video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYpE8P4GFbA
Thanks for the video.

It's funny, because the design in the video very much resembles parts of my older designs where I, too, used the clock and smart inserters to filter out the items from the belt into certain chests.

Then I thought hard about the design and came to the conclusion that this is not necessary. So I removed much of the complexity by only using fast inserters instead of the smart inserters with filters and normal/slow inserters instead of the clock.

I think my design is much easier to setup because it can handly any items in circulation up to about 20 different types without actually caring for the inserters. You just connect all chests with red wire and then connect the output of the assemblers with smart inserters and limit the type of item there to either 0 or < some number.

My design also avoids the second loop in the video because the "end of the line" problem is handled by a chest without limited stacks so it eats all stuck items and brings them back into circulation in a controlled fashion.

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Re: Single circular belt factory

Post by sparr »

Narnach wrote:After green science it gets tricky due to oil industry needing pipes everywhere, so that's where it gets interesting :-)
Bah. Barrel everything, and just consider unbarreling to be one extra step in the production chain for anything that needs a liquid.

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Re: Single circular belt factory

Post by sparr »

ske wrote:The only gripe i have is that currently you cannot count the number of items placed on the belts, but I have hopes that the Circuit Network Connector http://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-123 one day makes this possible. This would eliminate the need for smart chests and decrease the number of items on the belt considerably.
I recall seeing a mod that provided an "count items on the ground nearby" circuit signal. I can't remember the name. I'm also not sure if it would count items on belts. But maybe?

Also I'm making a modding request that might make this easier to add as a mod.

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Re: Single circular belt factory

Post by sparr »

ske wrote:The only gripe i have is that currently you cannot count the number of items placed on the belts
viewtopic.php?f=93&t=25959

Hope you can make something awesome with it!

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Re: Single circular belt factory

Post by orzelek »

In 0.13 you'll be able to keep a running tally of items on belt from circuit network.

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Re: Single circular belt factory

Post by sparr »

orzelek wrote:In 0.13 you'll be able to keep a running tally of items on belt from circuit network.
The FFF said you can only query a single belt tile. Wiring up a whole belt network one tile at a time is going to be non-trivial. Also, it will be nearly impossible to add circuit logic to follow belt paths rather than just choosing belt tiles.

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Re: Single circular belt factory

Post by orzelek »

sparr wrote:
orzelek wrote:In 0.13 you'll be able to keep a running tally of items on belt from circuit network.
The FFF said you can only query a single belt tile. Wiring up a whole belt network one tile at a time is going to be non-trivial. Also, it will be nearly impossible to add circuit logic to follow belt paths rather than just choosing belt tiles.
I was thinking about other functionality - you can count every item entering given belt tile in pulse mode. So you can keep actual up to date count of items that went through given tile and use it for precise counting.

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Re: Single circular belt factory

Post by MeduSalem »

sparr wrote:The FFF said you can only query a single belt tile. Wiring up a whole belt network one tile at a time is going to be non-trivial. Also, it will be nearly impossible to add circuit logic to follow belt paths rather than just choosing belt tiles.
It can be almost trivial... Just blueprint belt stretches which are already wired up, like for example stretches of 20 belt tiles. Stamp down the blueprint and make the missing connections by hand.

This method could even be used to keep track of individual belt sections and rather combine the signals of sections in the aftermath using combinators... for whatever reason.

Only problem I see is with Underground Belts and Splitters. There was no mention that they will be connectible... so they won't be able to provide any information on the amount of items on them, which has to be considered in such contraptions. (Wish they would allow splitter manipulation with circuit signals... but yeah dream on)


No matter what, I have the strong feeling that the aesthetic feel of a belt entirely wired up will stick out like a sore thumb... 1000 belt tiles each with a wire hanging out... urgh. Dark times are approaching... :lol:

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Re: Single circular belt factory

Post by chipotng »

Behold of my on-demand, single belt factory with external Power and Oil Supply :D

congestiondetector & overflowbuffer & optical demand feedback
Factorio5.png
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Re: Single circular belt factory

Post by sparr »

chipotng wrote:Behold of my on-demand, single belt factory with external Power and Oil Supply :D
I'd love to see a separate post explaining how this works.

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Re: Single circular belt factory

Post by Gertibrumm »

This is my approach to single belt, demand factory:
mainview.jpg
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1. chest where train supply is constantly filled up, on demand items are counted into smart chests and put onto main belt
2. demand station
3. simplest of all assembly cells with extra item counting

Closer look at chests:
chests.jpg
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.13 will hugely improve item counting

Closer look at cells
assembly.jpg
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I hate copper cables, they always clog up the belts but faster belts do help

This factory is far from finished but with long afk this factory could possibly get to "late end game" content like rocket ;)

Im am waiting for .13 and I am working on a far improved factory right now which uses all assembly machines at the same time for the same item sequentially for massive and efficient throughput.

But ill create a separate post/posts for this very new type of factory when .13 is up

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Re: Single circular belt factory

Post by Guu »

I sort of things a little differently https://youtu.be/AgudQKNu00k

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Re: Single circular belt factory

Post by Qon »

Guu wrote:I sort of things a little differently https://youtu.be/AgudQKNu00k
I've been thinking of doing that, but not many items fit and it's usually just simpler and just as good to just use half belts reserved for one item type each. Would be a more useful technique if there were more recipies that required a lot of different types of ingredients but a low input amount per second. But well done getting some use out of it.

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Re: Single circular belt factory

Post by ske »

Nice, I didn't see most of the contraptions here but they are impressive. The single circular belt has great potential for creative solutions (and overengineering quite a bit).

I came back here because 0.13 now has item counters for belts. It doesn't really count the number of items on a long belt (unless you are insane and connect every piece by wire). But I fiddled around and got it running well enough to keep track of the approximate number of items on a belt and use it to direct the production. This gets rid of the array of chests and adds some further degrees of freedom to the design which I'll explore in time to come.

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Re: Single circular belt factory

Post by Gertibrumm »

I think biggest improvement with .13 update is definitly the super and fast item-control with either belt or inserter control.
Ill see what I can do and post a link in a few weeks

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