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Hello,

I’ve created a system that allows you to easily control fuel consumption for your thrusters.

Why This System?

Thrusters are more efficient when they run on lower fuel consumption. According to Factoriopedia, the lower the consumption, the higher the efficiency.



This means players are incentivized to reduce fuel consumption to increase efficiency. Here’s how to achieve that:



How to Set Up

In the image below, you’ll see how to configure the Constant Combinator with the parameters required for controlled fuel consumption:



Set the constant F to 1200. This value represents the flow rate of a single pump. If you’re using a larger ship where one pump isn’t enough, you can use two pumps in parallel and change the constant F to 2400.

The constant E indicates the number of engines in one wing. In this setup, we’re using 4 engines per wing, for a total of 7 engines (one thruster is shared between both wings).

The parameter C specifies the total fuel consumption. In this example, we set C to 23, meaning each engine consumes 23 units of fluid per second.

Don’t forget to connect the top-right Decider Combinator to the Space Platform Hub and check both "Read Moving From" and "Read Moving To" in the hub. This connection isn’t included in the blueprint, but you can see it in the screenshot. This is important for recognizing that your spacship is ordered to fly.

After edid: If you are rushing space usage you can use one less combinator for computing parameters from given constants. Instead of setting F, E, C you can put numbers into other combinators directly. Use it carefully tho. Also you can rearange combinator placement into any suitable gap on your platform.

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

Looks pretty nice!

I needed a bit to understand how it actually works, but in the end it's based on circuit clock and a sort of PWM for activating the pumps only for the time needed, works like a charm

Awesome work. Definitely have to give this a shot!
We were over in the GamePlay Help section rubbing two sticks together...or at least I was.
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=117809

Edit:
Works like a champ! Such a big difference in fuel consumption!

Welp, because of the conditions of the planet decider thing the platform cannot start up on its own because the AND logic prevents the pumps from filling at least some fuel into the thrusters after setting it up the first time.

You absolutely need to kickstart it at least once by setting the initially "blocking" planet condition at least once to 4. Then it starts moving, and afterwards it works because there is some fuel left. ^^


But otherwise this is a ingenius setup. I like it. :>

The amount of fuel it saves is ridiculous. Cut my consumption basically to 1/3rd or 1/4th I had before. The downtime in orbit to restock is now much less. xD

This is a genius design choice.
I was experimenting with engine count vs platform-mass to reduce consumption, but couldn't find a saddle-point.
But your idea to modulate fuel, is key for this game mechanic. Good job!
I've converted a long-hauler to leverage it, and am doing "sea-trials" before I find out if it's the missing ingredient to reach past the solar-edge.
Well done!
Here's my current hauler... bug me if anyone wants the blueprint to save time.

I am glad you like it . Here’s my beauty. I built this ship to fly continuously between all 4 base planets. For testing purposes it is able to fly without stopping, maintaining a steady speed of approximately 240 km/s. All components are common quality. The pumping system improved the speed from 220 to 240 km/s, giving me a 10% boost. It’s "just 10%" for me because my previous approach—burning everything and adding a good number of thrusters—was already pretty optimized. I can say the pumping system always gives some benefit. Overall, it’s worth considering the optimal number of engines, as this system helps correct any design flaws.

I have this system slightly modified for my ship. And the constant C is here based on fuel tank contain. But I am about to rig of it. I figured that in real scenario it is still bettter to just guess the amount of consumption you want to achieve.

In case you're wondering how I achieved that with so few crushers, see my other post viewtopic.php?f=193&t=118588

MBas wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 30, 2024 12:48 pm

I have this system slightly modified for my ship. And the constant C is here based on fuel tank contain. But I am about to rig of it. I figured that in real scenario it is still bettter to just guess the amount of consumption you want to achieve.

Your "guess" of C=40 as is set in the blueprint string above is actually pretty good. Achieves around 85-86% efficiency on my ships. I tried fiddling with it yesterday, but I found any other value below/above only decreased the efficiency slightly (albeit I didn't test it too exhaustively). ^^

I think the value of around 40 of 120 (or basically 33% thrust) is only reasonable considering the thruster efficiency graph. Because relating it to the thruster graphs... that area is about the same area where the 3 graphs roughly "intersect" (between 35-40% or whatever). So it seems to correlate with it (with some minor deviation probably because of some minor other factors in the formula). It is the area where the engine will give decent amount of thrust/acceleration for the consumption... basically a "sweet spot".

I don't know what effect other higher quality thrusters have, if that changes the graphs somehow (because that would likely also shift the value for C), but if we speak about the standard thruster, then that is probably roughly its sweet spot.



But that said, there is also not to underestimated effect that comes from the platform design itself. I think mine could be more efficient if I had not designed my ships as "wide" (kinda something I would do differently on new ships). Because as mmmPI wrote in the other thread (which led me here)... the width of the platform is calculated in somehow.

The less wide it is, the better it is for acceleration & economy. Means likely we will see narrow but long ships more often once people figure that out.

In that regard you could also make your platform even slightly better if you could somehow move those outer-most solar panels & accumulators further in the rear section of your ship that is empty to make your platform even narrower by those 4 or 6 tiles or whatever. ^^

In the optimal case a ship's width in total should not be wider than the thruster section in the back of the ship (which obviously one cannot make any narrower).



What also definitely is a factor... how many gun turrets you place & where you place them. May seem unrelated at first, but if you have too many (like in my case) it cracks too many asteroids even on the sides of the ship that your collectors will never reach anyway, but shooting them drains more ammo and burns through Iron ore and with it possibly hampers fuel production and other side effects. At least that is what I also noticed from observing several flights and which I would change in new ship designs.

One sure needs some turrets on the sides to cover the ship because I had asteroids in idle mode in orbit that nearly even collided with the rocket thrusters because they came in pretty much with a horizontal trajectory or a trajectory that went for the aft section. I have not seen one enter from below, but it is enough if some can come in horizontal or that weird aft-section trajectory. So you definitely don't want a "blind spot" where the Gun Turrets cannot reach. You don't necessarily need to collect the chunks from there, but at least be able to shoot it before it actually hits the thrusters.

MeduSalem wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 30, 2024 5:38 pm

What also definitely is a factor... how many gun turrets you place & where you place them. May seem unrelated at first, but if you have too many (like in my case) it cracks too many asteroids even on the sides of the ship that your collectors will never reach anyway, but shooting them drains more ammo and burns through Iron ore and with it possibly hampers fuel production and other side effects. At least that is what I also noticed from observing several flights and which I would change in new ship designs.

One sure needs some turrets on the sides to cover the ship because I had asteroids in idle mode in orbit that nearly even collided with the rocket thrusters because they came in pretty much with a horizontal trajectory or a trajectory that went for the aft section. I have not seen one enter from below, but it is enough if some can come in horizontal or that weird aft-section trajectory. So you definitely don't want a "blind spot" where the Gun Turrets cannot reach. You don't necessarily need to collect the chunks from there, but at least be able to shoot it before it actually hits the thrusters.

There are many factors, and some of them scale incredibly well. One of the most important aspects so far has been chunk processing and efficient reprocessing. I’ve noticed many designs where people underestimate this mechanic. Better processing means you can get more per ship width. The narrower the width, the fewer asteroids you need to destroy, which also reduces ammo consumption. All these factors scale remarkably, and it all starts with properly filtering asteroid chunks. For instance, in my current ship design, I optimized so deeply that I realized I only needed one collector! This gave me an advantage I didn’t fully utilize yet: reduced electricity consumption. With efficiency modules, the collector (and inserters) are among the highest electricity consumers. So, in the current design, I have more solar panels than I actually need and will likely rebuild it at some point.

Regarding rear defense, the ship in my screenshot actually gains rather than loses capability while flying. I just keep moving and only stop when absolutely necessary, like to collect science packs. If I don’t get enough at one stop, I’ll just collect more at the next. It’s like a conveyor belt in space! Only once did one of my engines get damaged, and it was immediately repaired. And since I’m frequently visiting planets, restocking repair tools is always possible.

MBas wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 30, 2024 6:22 pm

There are many factors, and some of them scale incredibly well. One of the most important aspects so far has been chunk processing and efficient reprocessing. I’ve noticed many designs where people underestimate this mechanic. Better processing means you can get more per ship width. The narrower the width, the fewer asteroids you need to destroy, which also reduces ammo consumption. All these factors scale remarkably, and it all starts with properly filtering asteroid chunks. For instance, in my current ship design, I optimized so deeply that I realized I only needed one collector! This gave me an advantage I didn’t fully utilize yet: reduced electricity consumption. With efficiency modules, the collector (and inserters) are among the highest electricity consumers. So, in the current design, I have more solar panels than I actually need and will likely rebuild it at some point.

I already thought that there is also lots of potential in there with the processing of chunks. But I have not unlocked the re-processing tech yet, but I will likely get to it today because I only visited Gleba yesterday.

About the solar panels; I guess it also depends on where the ship travels, the further out the less efficient they are. I already noticed as much while traveling back and forth between Vulcanus and Fulgora in one trip without "stopping" at Nauvis. But that said it can definitely improved on also by higher quality solar panels & accumulators. ^^

MBas wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 30, 2024 6:22 pm

Regarding rear defense, the ship in my screenshot actually gains rather than loses capability while flying. I just keep moving and only stop when absolutely necessary, like to collect science packs. If I don’t get enough at one stop, I’ll just collect more at the next. It’s like a conveyor belt in space! Only once did one of my engines get damaged, and it was immediately repaired. And since I’m frequently visiting planets, restocking repair tools is always possible.

Yea, I noticed the same effect when flying as well; mine also "ramps" up better when it is flying. I get more chunks than I could ever need/process.

At least for the ammo production I don't face any problems (currently have only 4 electric furnaces & 2 ammo assemblers on it though and they are enough together with the ammo I temporarily stockpile in the hub).

But with 1 chem plant for each fluid I also noticed I still cannot keep up with fuel production mid-flight for 5 thrusters even with limiting the thrust with your logic. (albeit limiting it really improved it a lot already; definitely shortened the turn-around in each orbit by whole lot). It is not even so much the chunks; but rather that 1 chemplant for each fluid is too slow. So likely I should expand on that as well. ^^


Anyway I was referring about rear defense just in case your platform is ever idle for a while in a planet orbit like if you build on it anywhere but Nauvis or if it waits for some resources.

Because I currently don't have my platforms set up to keep "on the move". So most often they are sitting in the Fulgora/Valcanus orbits waiting for science packs to be ready to shipped and to restock on fuel before they move back to Nauvis (even tho the turnaround at Nauvis is usually shorter because it only loads a few things from there and usually they are readily available when a platform arrives because I have enough production there).

At least if I kept on moving currently, the platforms would eventually run out of fuel and start crawling midflight waiting for more fuel to be produced. (as said, probably too few chemplants, because chunks are enough xD).

So I guess for me there is still more improvements that I need to research first and that need to be done before the platforms can always be "on the move."

MeduSalem wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 30, 2024 6:39 pm

I already thought there was a lot of potential with chunk processing. I haven’t unlocked the re-processing tech yet, but I’ll probably get to it today since I only visited Gleba yesterday.

With asteroid reprocessing, if you have one unwanted type and need one of two other types, there’s a 66% chance you’ll get a needed type and a 33% chance of losing the chunk. If you have two unwanted types and need just one specific type, there’s a 50% chance of getting what you need and a 50% chance of losing the chunk.

I highly recommend using circuits to swap recipes for crushers, as these recipes don’t benefit from production boosts. It’s a simple process and greatly improves efficiency.

I found a very hacky way to regulate fuel flow. Can't screenshot right now so I'll try to describe logically...

From my fuel storage tanks i have a pump and a tank before each set of 3 engines. The pump is set to enable only when the tank is above 30 (duplicate for fuel +oxidiser) this gives about 96% efficiency. Set to around 75 for a good balance between speed and efficiency, or unrestricted for max thrust damn the cost.

LeeWhite187 wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 30, 2024 12:01 pm

I was experimenting with engine count vs platform-mass to reduce consumption [...]

Assuming you're optimizing your fuel consumption to reach a desired speed, you're missing the most important factor: platform width. Yep, there is 'space drag'.

Here is a graph by @Silv3rDragon, from the Official Discord #space channel. It show the speed reduction from build a wider platform, weight and thrust being equal.

I guess it is more or less obvious that narrow ships should be used as cargo delivery and wide for asteroid farming (in case you are really want to do that).

For travelling to Aquilo I use very narrow ship. It can move very fast. But becouse my research on explosions is quite bad, I am using only 2/3 of my fuel production. I just add extra combinator which drops from 60 fuel per second per engine to 40 if I am traveling to or from Aquilo.