Industrial Revolution 2 discussion

Topics and discussion about specific mods
User avatar
Deadlock989
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 2379
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:41 pm

Re: Industrial Revolution 2 discussion

Post by Deadlock989 »

Pi-C wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 5:51 pm
Bug report. The following quote is just meant to make Deadlock notice this. (Hope this works, as I quoted from another thread. :-)
Deadlock989 wrote:
Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:56 pm
I've got this crash:

Code: Select all

  12.243 Error ModManager.cpp:1560: Error while loading technology prototype "geode-processing-1" (technology): Difficulty normal: Ingredient with type item and name "logistic-science-pack" is registered twice in the technology
Modifications: Angel's Refining › Industrial Revolution 2
Dump of data.raw.technology["geode-processing-1"].unit.ingredients at the end of Angel's data-final-fixes.lua:

...

Angel's Refining provides the ingredients in the long form, IR2 uses the short form. I guess you already make sure that there are no duplicate ingredientsI confirmed you already make sure there are no duplicate ingredients by converting unit.ingredients of this tech to the short form. However, this check won't work if you try to compare a short-form with a long-form ingredient. Would you mind normalizing the input before the comparison?
Can you give some context for what is happening here? Historically IR has never been compatible with Angel's and I'm unaware of anyone ever attempting to Frankenstein them together. Are you trying to do that?

IR's tree builder shouldn't be touching non-vanilla technologies (since 2.0.0). I'm not clear on how an Angel's technology called "geode-processing-1" could ever be affected by it, unless it is a bug or some unforeseen situation. Are you using the IR properties like IR_native to force the tree builder to handle these non-vanilla techs or something?

I can add a check for both short and long forms easily enough, but essentially this shouldn't be arising in the first place.
"If Stalin had a good writeup on programming, would linking that be dangerous?"

Pi-C
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1086
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:13 am
Contact:

Re: Industrial Revolution 2 discussion

Post by Pi-C »

Deadlock989 wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:19 am
Can you give some context for what is happening here? Historically IR has never been compatible with Angel's and I'm unaware of anyone ever attempting to Frankenstein them together. Are you trying to do that?
This occurred while I was working on Bio Industries. There have been changes to recipe unlocks, ingredients, etc. if Bob's and Angel's mods (plus a number of others) are active even before I started collaborating. Recently, people complained that different BI things didn't work if IR2 was active, so I made some changes to accommodate your mod (apparently, these things work now). I got the crash when testing my changes with (almost) all supported mods on.
IR's tree builder shouldn't be touching non-vanilla technologies (since 2.0.0). I'm not clear on how an Angel's technology called "geode-processing-1" could ever be affected by it, unless it is a bug or some unforeseen situation.
No, I'm not trying to make IR and Angels' Refining compatible. Also, I've no idea if they would work together in a real game (never used either, because I haven't played a real game for almost a year), but I suppose there may be problems regarding balancing and the changed tech tree. So my post was really just about the failed start-up of Factorio.
Are you using the IR properties like IR_native to force the tree builder to handle these non-vanilla techs or something?
I didn't apply any IR properties to AR or BI. My fix for BI was to not create our crushed-stone recipe/item if IR is active, and to replace it with your gravel in the ingredients and products of all recipes. (I would have used IR properties if there really was a reason to keep our stuff -- but gravel and crushed stone are more or less the same thing, so there's no need to have both in the game.)
I can add a check for both short and long forms easily enough, but essentially this shouldn't be arising in the first place.
Sorry, I really have no idea why IR decides to touch AR's tech. But even if these two mods should be incompatible for whatever other reasons, checking for both formats would be a good idea, I guess, because you can never know what data (otherwise compatible mods) will provide. :-)
A good mod deserves a good changelog. Here's a tutorial (WIP) about Factorio's way too strict changelog syntax!

User avatar
Deadlock989
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 2379
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:41 pm

Re: Industrial Revolution 2 discussion

Post by Deadlock989 »

Pi-C wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:14 pm
OK. I have added checks for both short and long tech unit cost forms both there and in a couple of other tech-related places. IR now loads with Angel's Refining (it's a broken mess of a game with both at once, but it loads). This won't be uploaded today but soon-ish.

FTR, I don't check this thread much and I don't get notifications of quotes.

Thanks to others for their kind words here.
"If Stalin had a good writeup on programming, would linking that be dangerous?"

Pi-C
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1086
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:13 am
Contact:

Re: Industrial Revolution 2 discussion

Post by Pi-C »

Deadlock989 wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:59 pm
Pi-C wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:14 pm
OK. I have added checks for both short and long tech unit cost forms both there and in a couple of other tech-related places. IR now loads with Angel's Refining (it's a broken mess of a game, but it loads).
Thank you very much!
This won't be uploaded today but soon-ish.
No problem! I know a new release comes with a bit of invisible overhead, so it's easier to wait until several issues have been solved than pushing out a release for each minor bug. :-)
FTR, I don't check this thread much and I don't get notifications of quotes.
Oh, darn… Guess I've been lucky then that you noticed my bug reports/questions. But I fully understand that you don't want to get flooded with notifications of countless posts…
A good mod deserves a good changelog. Here's a tutorial (WIP) about Factorio's way too strict changelog syntax!

User avatar
Deadlock989
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 2379
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:41 pm

Re: Industrial Revolution 2 discussion

Post by Deadlock989 »

Pi-C wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:29 pm
Oh, darn… Guess I've been lucky then that you noticed my bug reports/questions. But I fully understand that you don't want to get flooded with notifications of countless posts…
I've opened a Github issues tracker: https://github.com/Deadlock989/Industri ... ion/issues

Will see how that goes. It's the only place I'll be checking for issues, for now.
"If Stalin had a good writeup on programming, would linking that be dangerous?"

trionicb
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:27 am
Contact:

Re: Industrial Revolution 2 discussion

Post by trionicb »

Love the IR2 look and feel, the graphics are beautiful.

Cheers

Fuzzician
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:58 pm
Contact:

Re: Industrial Revolution 2 discussion

Post by Fuzzician »

Put around 70 hours into the mod so far. Here are my thoughts:
(several edits later)

Graphics are incredible. After playing IR, vanilla graphics looks really lame in comparison.
The steam stage is less of a drag than i expected, mainly because it is just per-electricity, rather than an extended burner phase. Though, changing your base into iron is a little tedious, but worth it once you finish.
Nuclear Artillery is an excellent solution to the Atomic Bomb. I always thought that walking around with a rocket launcher that launches nuclear rockets is silly - this makes a lot more sense.
Starting with the Shotgun instead of the pistol makes sense. Pistol is useless. I do wish an improvement to the Submachine Gun was included (I miss the Mini-gun), since the Combat Shotgun is still not useful. It is just much more efficient to drive a Tank into a nest and treat the biters with a Flamethrower.
Military tech is really neatly arranged - each Tier is a clear improvement, and Shotgun Shells find some use (until the Tank, that is). Having Military 4 unlock Uranium munitions is an obvious change, one that Vanilla should have done.
Accumulators having 60MJ of charge is a nice change. Seriously, vanilla has 5MJ? That's REALLY stupid.

A few things I would change:
Between Stainless Steel and Chromed Steel, it seems like there is one too many materials. Stainless is mainly used to make the endgame buildings, (and needed for Yellow science), while Chromed is more of a luxury material that probably wasn't necessary. Chromed Steel could have been cut, since we are already using Chromium to make a better version of Steel. This is a minor nitpick, though.
Magazines should have way more than 10 bullets. A cartridge can sustain 20 seconds of fire on either the player or a turret, but a magazine is used up in just 1 second? This seems really odd to me. Admittedly, this is a problem from vanilla.
The Advanced Drill should probably be more powerful. That might seem excessive, but given that it requires Diamonds, and it is larger than the Electric Drill, it should be more of an upgrade. 50% more speed, when it takes up twice as much space seems like a bad deal. Extra Module Slots help, but then it is only slightly more space-efficient. Maybe it could have built-in productivity? Or the ability to mine without an ore patch (much slower than normal, of course)?
A larger annoyance is the Oil industry. The fact that cracking Heavy Oil produces both Light Oil and Lubricant means that having Lubricant backup stops your oil production completely. Simply adding a Flare Stack item to burn off excess liquid would solve this problem completely (we already have the Gas Vent).

There are a bit too many items with limited uses. Corrosion-resistant Iron plates could be cut completely, and the recipes could just use Reinforced Iron plates. There is already a corrosion-resistant variant of the Steel Plate. Likewise, we have both a Shielded Plate, and a Heat-Resistant Plate - These should just be merged into one entity, and we can just do away with Invar. Lead and Nickel see very little use, and it seems like one of those could be cut, and the other takes over. While this might not fit flavor wise, I tend to be highly averse to anything that has limited use in game like this.

There is one bigger issue that I have with the mod, and it is the following:
Yellow science is basically gated, until you find enough Rubies to make at least a couple Laser Assemblers, to make Blue Circuits to research Cubic Press. Since Ruby is needed for Laser, all laser items, like Personal Laser Defense and Laser Turrets are locked until you do this. Simple solution would be to make Cubic Press only require up to Purple Science, so you only need to find one Ruby to bootstrap the process. Diamond and Sapphire are fine, since those are not necessary, and are only used for "premium" items. Also, 50 of a mineral to make one gem seems a little steep. This only really matter for Ruby, since that is the only gem you actually need a decent amount of.

All in all, this mod is outstanding, and I think I will end up modifying it myself once Deadlock stops updates.

Mehve
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 317
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2016 9:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Industrial Revolution 2 discussion

Post by Mehve »

Great to see this show up! I quite enjoyed the original, and this is definitely an overall improvement!

Steam is surprisingly fun while it lasts - I freely admit most of my later IR games involved me skipping to iron, because all-burner got old REALLY fast. The new oil refining system feels better - turning gas into sulphur was always a pet peeve of mine from vanilla, and balancing sulphur against sulphuric acid keeps things interesting. I also appreciate how you've also exaggerated the outputs of the ore washing options (water vs acid), giving more control over the output levels of the primary and secondary ores. Tree-growing + charcoal, if you're willing to build enough infrastructure, is extremely overpowered for pollution reduction in early-game.

If I had a complaint, it might be the carbon-steel ammo - while the CS shells only need plastic, the CS ammo needs plastic/red circuits, ore-washing, lead and nickel research before you can make it. Until then, an unlucky map layout will see you stuck with iron ammo against medium biters and big worms, which have enough physical defense to almost completely no-sell the shots, even with the first two levels of shot damage researched. It made for a tense situation early-on, although I managed to get rockets up and running to snipe a few nearby nests to give me breathing room.

Also, something is weird with productivity modules in electric furnaces. They say they accept the modules, they accept the modules, they show the productivity progress bar, but as soon you actually give them ingredients, the productivity bar vanishes. I don't have any other mods running that would conflict on that front, so not sure.

AlveKatt
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:44 pm
Contact:

Re: Industrial Revolution 2 discussion

Post by AlveKatt »

I am getting this error message. I am pretty sure I have no other mods that adds new power-pole entities.
Beautiful Bridge Railway is incompatible.
Attachments
Screenshot at 2021-03-07 09-47-21.png
Screenshot at 2021-03-07 09-47-21.png (28.21 KiB) Viewed 1730 times

T__C
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:38 pm
Contact:

Re: Industrial Revolution 2 discussion

Post by T__C »

What is the "generator manager"? The "Burner generator equipment" description says "The generator manager (see quickbar) can automatically top up equipment fuel slots using matching items from your inventory." However, when I look at the quickbar, I see nothing which fits that description.

Edit:

Never mind. I see that when you research Heavy Armor, a new icon appears on the quickbar. It is not called "generator manager", but it seems to be what the text is referring to.

orzelek
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 3846
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:20 am
Contact:

Re: Industrial Revolution 2 discussion

Post by orzelek »

You can install informatron mod and you will get set of helpful hints. One of them describes what is the generator manager and how it works.
It's listed as optional dependency of IR2 and you can just click the arrow next to dependency on the mod list to go to mod download.

orzelek
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 3846
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:20 am
Contact:

Re: Industrial Revolution 2 discussion

Post by orzelek »

Anyone else noticed that productivity is pretty much not used by whole IR2?
I can only apply it to science packs and few crushing recipes and nowhere else.

I'm not sure if this is a bug or feature.

User avatar
ptx0
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1054
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 7:16 pm
Contact:

Re: Industrial Revolution 2 discussion

Post by ptx0 »

orzelek wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:03 pm
Anyone else noticed that productivity is pretty much not used by whole IR2?
I can only apply it to science packs and few crushing recipes and nowhere else.

I'm not sure if this is a bug or feature.
deadlock prefers scale out vs scale up.
My Mods - Fish Per Minute base size metric - Use your crashed spaceship as a belt balancer?
• • •
Base: Bob's @ 1 Million SPM
• • •
Linear search and overflows are indicative of sloppy coding practices.

orzelek
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 3846
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:20 am
Contact:

Re: Industrial Revolution 2 discussion

Post by orzelek »

ptx0 wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 7:49 pm
orzelek wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:03 pm
Anyone else noticed that productivity is pretty much not used by whole IR2?
I can only apply it to science packs and few crushing recipes and nowhere else.

I'm not sure if this is a bug or feature.
deadlock prefers scale out vs scale up.
It would be nice to get a "more productivity possibilities" option - scaling up is nicer (personal preference) :)

AlexGreen
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Industrial Revolution 2 discussion

Post by AlexGreen »

When I've read about Industrial Revolution (FFF-311) it immediately became the only true way of playing Factorio. ;) I like vanilla version of the game, but IR has something that has spoken to me. I was really upset when I've found out that IR was not going to be ported to 0.18. At that time I wasn't at the position of doing the migration by myself. So I was hoping that some day IR would come bake to life.

I am super exited that IR is available again. :D IR2 is super cool and all that, but there are some features that I like in IR1 but they are not present in IR2 anymore. I like all those burning machines from IR1, burning era has its own interesting challenges. On the other hand steam machines from IR2 are just brilliant. So why not to have both? That is how I've started to work on my own version of IR which is IR1 + IR2 + some minor tweaks.

Unfortunately I was dumb enough not to save the latest version of IR1. The version I've got is 1.0.3 which is lacking racing mono wheel (which is super cool), watch towers and other cool stuff from the latest update.

I would greatly appreciate if someone could share the latest version of IR1 with me. It would be just perfect though if I could get (which is probably not going to happened :( ) the source files of all graphical assets. :roll: For example it would make more sense for me to have copper burner grinder and bronze steam grinder.

wobbycarly
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
Posts: 187
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:00 am
Contact:

Re: Industrial Revolution 2 discussion

Post by wobbycarly »

While you may be within rights if you are doing this project for your private enjoyment, but check the mod license carefully about how, what and where you can reuse code and assets, especially if you intend to republish to the mod portal. This mod has a pretty restricted license, AFAIK.

Kyralessa
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 340
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 5:58 pm
Contact:

Re: Industrial Revolution 2 discussion

Post by Kyralessa »

AlexGreen wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:17 pm
That is how I've started to work on my own version of IR which is IR1 + IR2 + some minor tweaks.
Note this from the license:
NoDerivatives — If you remix, transform, or build upon the material, you may not distribute the modified material.
According to the license, you can do this for your own personal use, but you can't publish it as a mod on the portal.

AlexGreen
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Industrial Revolution 2 discussion

Post by AlexGreen »

Yes, I am aware of it, I do not intend to publish it. Doing modifications to meet my personal preferences.

IMHO this should be the way if one wants some changes instead of just complaining. ;)

User avatar
Deadlock989
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 2379
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:41 pm

Re: Industrial Revolution 2 discussion

Post by Deadlock989 »

AlexGreen wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:31 pm
Yes, I am aware of it, I do not intend to publish it. Doing modifications to meet my personal preferences.
Obviously that's completely fine.

I'm highly unmotivated to start digging out archived versions of stuff I'm afraid.

You may encounter some minor issues with incorporating the older assets. You mentioned the steel monowheel - it won't have the same glowing-at-night headlights as the new monowheel, because that was a feature added in 1.1 and it took some extra rendering. I got rid of it partly because vehicles are very greedy for VRAM with all their directions, but mostly because when I decided that all the vehicles (including the copper monowheel) could use batteries there seemed little point in having a slightly faster batteries-only version. The copper monowheel in IR2 got a minor redesign so that its exhausts were a bit more sweeping and was buffed so that its performance is somewhere between the IR1 monowheels - its turning speed actually got nerfed though because it was too hard to turn at speed on man-made tiles. The steel monowheel was supposed to be replaced with a heavy bronze vehicle as a mobile equipment grid platform - early sketch had it like a bronze steam train on caterpillar tracks - but I never got around to having that even 25% done.

The watchtower got killed off also partly for VRAM reasons (the way its animations are composed are highly unamenable to optimisation/layering) but mostly because it got on my tits.

With the old burner machines - I made a minor mistake with north/south positioning when I was rendering some of the new crafting machine animations. If you bring in IR1 machines unchanged you might find yourself having to align things up manually in the north/south direction using vertical shift.
AlexGreen wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:31 pm
IMHO this should be the way if one wants some changes instead of just complaining. ;)
Amen to that. Good luck with it.
"If Stalin had a good writeup on programming, would linking that be dangerous?"

Trific
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
Posts: 122
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:57 pm
Contact:

Re: Industrial Revolution 2 discussion

Post by Trific »

Played this in the BCG event, and it was fantastic. Gorgeous graphics, and I loved the way you have to really think about how to get more production at times (to acid wash or not acid wash). Will definitely make this my next base project.

Post Reply

Return to “Mods”