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Re: [MOD 0.17] Industrial Revolution

Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:11 pm
by LUXIIUS
I'm currently facing a problem with productivity modules in ore washing plants -- the productivity modifier (+40%) applies to the dirty water as well, so there is a net gain of water in the system.

Re: [MOD 0.17] Industrial Revolution

Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:35 pm
by Deadlock989
LUXIIUS wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:11 pm
I'm currently facing a problem with productivity modules in ore washing plants -- the productivity modifier (+40%) applies to the dirty water as well, so there is a net gain of water in the system.
If you're going off of Helmod or some other third party tool, it's wrong.

Dirty water is marked as a catalyst so it's not affected by productivity.

Re: [MOD 0.17] Industrial Revolution

Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:48 pm
by trashfan
Ah I see (prod mods & pollution). Thanks for the info and quick response!

Re: [MOD 0.17] Industrial Revolution

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 5:09 pm
by Therenas
Man I love the experimental graphics, great work as always, especially on the iron/steel-age(?) monowheel.
Deadlock989 wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:35 pm
If you're going off of Helmod or some other third party tool, it's wrong.

Dirty water is marked as a catalyst so it's not affected by productivity.
Just FYI, this problem should be addressed in the newer versions of Factory Planner.

Re: [MOD 0.17] Industrial Revolution

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:18 pm
by Jackalope_Gaming
I've been going through various mod combinations to make sure nothing is interfering with IR. In doing so I've found these mods that seem to be fundamentally incompatible with IR:

Expanded Rocket Payloads (interferes with Automation 2 and 3 as well as as deadlock-iron-age, etc)
Long Inserters (automation, deadlock-inserters-1, and automation again)

I've also found other mods that have issues:
Geothermal (brings up "Key "icon" not found in property tree", so it's likely an issue with Geothermal instead and/or its Alien Biomes interaction)

And then when I add in AAI Industry it throws an error saying "Error in assignID, tile with name 'stone-gravel does not exist" and it wants to disable Industrial Revolution, Alien Biomes, and Industrial Revolution. No idea what's going on with that, but when I disable Alien Biomes and keep AAI Industry it works though then it wants to kill WhistleStop Factories.

Otherwise, everything has worked.

Re: [MOD 0.17] Industrial Revolution

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:57 pm
by Deadlock989
Jackalope_Gaming wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:18 pm
Geothermal (brings up "Key "icon" not found in property tree", so it's likely an issue with Geothermal instead and/or its Alien Biomes interaction)
That one is the same as the one on the previous page with Rampant, typical rookie icon copying error.
And then when I add in AAI Industry it throws an error saying "Error in assignID, tile with name 'stone-gravel does not exist" and it wants to disable Industrial Revolution, Alien Biomes, and Industrial Revolution. No idea what's going on with that, but when I disable Alien Biomes and keep AAI Industry it works
That one is Alien Biome's incredibly aggressive approach to placeable tiles from other mods, i.e. it literally, consciously, deletes tiles from other mods to install its own mahoosive set and still stay within the 255 tiles limit. From my own tests, IR+AB+AAI loads, but add literally any other mod that adds tiles as well and it's probably hit the limit and the point where AB goes a bit psycho on tiles. Not touching that with a radioactive barge pole.

Re: [MOD 0.17] Industrial Revolution

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:36 pm
by BlueTemplar
I'm pretty sure that's a new behaviour - in 0.16.51 if you were to run, say Alien Biomes + Dectorio + Asphalt Roads (+ AngelBob ?) it just crashed due to overflowing the 255 tiles limit.

In 0.17 it seems to smartly (?) disable the marked Asphalt Roads tiles, leaving only the plain Asphalt. Alien Biomes also IIRC has an option to remove vanilla/unused tiles (maybe it's on by default in 0.17 ?)

Re: [MOD 0.17] Industrial Revolution. Stacking items.

Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:51 pm
by AlexGreen
Deadlock989 wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:30 pm
It's possible but would require composite entities. These can be broken quite easily by other mods. Non-square entities that aren't usually rotatable are also a pain, again, doable with dummy/proxy items/entities but it's an ugly hack imo. I did have plans to do something like this for an update to Crating Machine but tbh I'm just not feeling it at the moment. See Klonan's Belt Buffer to see how it was done there and some of the issues involved. It uses a composite loader/container/loader. You'd be using a furnace-like entity instead of the container. Timing is important.
Started to work on a stacker. I've took a look at badway's Belt Buffer which is an updated version of Klonan's Buffer. It uses a composite entities indeed but I don't really like the proxy transport belt approach. Initially I also started to implement a composition entity but then I've found that extending a basic simple-entity is a better way to do it. No hidden entities are required. Simply pick items from input belt, do whatever you want, put some items on output belt. This also gives a useful general purpose entity with built-in input, output and some logic in between.

Although I'm still considering the combined entities approach. Just trying to find the best way to do it.

Re: [MOD 0.17] Industrial Revolution

Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:31 pm
by Darkwhistle
About 40 hours in a run now since version 0.99 (and consistently updating), love the mod, amazing graphics, absolutely my favorite overhaul by far, really amazing job :D

Re: [MOD 0.17] Industrial Revolution

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:50 am
by animagus_kitty
Updated to 1.06 today and it set us back a lot of researches. We had Future Tech (or whatever the research is that unlocks the titanium/gold alloy) researched, as well as everything that didn't require military or space science, but when I logged in after the update it had deleted all of our storage depots because suddenly we didn't have them researched anymore. We had a lot of things researched, but even Bronze Age wasn't researched, and the missing techs didn't seem to follow any sort of logic.

EDIT:: I apologize for the size of the photos, I don't know how to spoiler them or make them smaller

Re: [MOD 0.17] Industrial Revolution

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:25 am
by Deadlock989
animagus_kitty wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:50 am
Updated to 1.06 today and it set us back a lot of researches. We had Future Tech (or whatever the research is that unlocks the titanium/gold alloy) researched, as well as everything that didn't require military or space science, but when I logged in after the update it had deleted all of our storage depots because suddenly we didn't have them researched anymore. We had a lot of things researched, but even Bronze Age wasn't researched, and the missing techs didn't seem to follow any sort of logic.

EDIT:: I apologize for the size of the photos, I don't know how to spoiler them or make them smaller
Nothing changed in 1.0.6 that could have caused any of this. Certainly the part about "deleting all the depots" sounds massively suspicious to me - toggling a technology enabled state would not delete entities from the world, so some other mod must be interfering. Without a detailed bug report or being given a way of reproducing this, there is nothing I can do.

Re: [MOD 0.17] Industrial Revolution

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:58 am
by animagus_kitty
Understood.

Re: [MOD 0.17] Industrial Revolution

Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:21 pm
by Zyrconia
Hi!

I think I'm ready to truly try this, up to rockets, beacons and all, but the last question is to RSO or not?

It looks like newer versions of RSO give more vanilla like maps (or is it the other way around?), only with far less resources. Even cranking size and richness to 200% gives less resources than vanilla.

I need to figure out the perfect settings for someone who loves to build but hates outsposting. I want my large bases to have 20 or fewer trains. I have no idea what resources are actually needed and in which proportions :).

Re: [MOD 0.17] Industrial Revolution

Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:27 pm
by jamesthe1st
Zyrconia wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:21 pm
Hi!

I think I'm ready to truly try this, up to rockets, beacons and all, but the last question is to RSO or not?

It looks like newer versions of RSO give more vanilla like maps (or is it the other way around?), only with far less resources. Even cranking size and richness to 200% gives less resources than vanilla.

I need to figure out the perfect settings for someone who loves to build but hates outsposting. I want my large bases to have 20 or fewer trains. I have no idea what resources are actually needed and in which proportions :).
Just use the vanilla railworld setup.

Re: [MOD 0.17] Industrial Revolution

Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:19 pm
by Deadlock989
Zyrconia wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:21 pm
I need to figure out the perfect settings for someone who loves to build but hates outsposting. I want my large bases to have 20 or fewer trains. I have no idea what resources are actually needed and in which proportions :).
Mining productivity research is massively delayed, but on the other hand, the technology chain that eventually leads to ingot doubling begins very early, so you get more metal for your ore beginning with an effective 25% boost from the Bronze Age alone. All miners also have larger coverage than their vanilla counterparts, so unless you're the most strident min-maxer, you'll be placing fewer miners for longer lifetimes. Most playtesters reported needing far fewer miners and furnaces, at least as far as the end of mid-game. I play railworld myself most of the time and also find mining outpost construction very tedious, so IR reflects that to some extent. You can easily get 60 SPM up to chemical science without moving off a single yellow belt per resource.

I'm not discouraging the use of RSO - I personally believe that in 0.15 and 0.16 RSO was basically compulsory - but in 0.17 I don't believe that's necessarily the case any more.

Re: [MOD 0.17] Industrial Revolution

Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:42 pm
by Bilka
Zyrconia wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:21 pm
I need to figure out the perfect settings for someone who loves to build but hates outsposting. I want my large bases to have 20 or fewer trains. I have no idea what resources are actually needed and in which proportions :).
This map is 100% default settings and in my opinion worked really well for how many outposts I needed. I launched 1 rocket with the resources you see, and can produce about 60 SPM.
map view of base
As you can see, most of my outpost are oil, so maybe turn that up a bit if you want less trains. The tin and the uranium outpost are both built post rocket. That leaves one of each iron, coal and stone outpost that were needed to launch the rocket. In my opinion, that's just the right amount of trains for my medium sized base.

Re: [MOD 0.17] Industrial Revolution

Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:24 am
by Therax
Suggestion: make Utility Science Pack research depend on Automation 3. This isn't captured by the automatic generation, and I didn't notice that I needed Laser Assemblers for the Optical Controllers.

I would also like to second the idea that Utility Science Pack should consume High Capacity Batteries, to give more of a sink for lead.

Re: [MOD 0.17] Industrial Revolution

Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:01 am
by Deadlock989
Therax wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:24 am
Suggestion: make Utility Science Pack research depend on Automation 3. This isn't captured by the automatic generation, and I didn't notice that I needed Laser Assemblers for the Optical Controllers.

I would also like to second the idea that Utility Science Pack should consume High Capacity Batteries, to give more of a sink for lead.
The first suggestion seems sensible, I'll look into it when I get some enthusiasm/time for modding back.

The second - they were high capacity batteries before, and people complained about that, so they changed to regular batteries.

Re: [MOD 0.17] Industrial Revolution

Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:19 am
by Mecejide
I have a suggestion: make the discharge defense require a field effector.

Re: [MOD 0.17] Industrial Revolution

Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:26 am
by Tartignolle
Hi, I've been playing a new map with Industrial revolution + Krastorio and I just wanted to say that IR is awesome :)
Ty