Factorio Forums

Noticed something a little odd with the autoforester.



I assume the negative pollution number means it sucks pollution up? Makes sense, it uses CO2 from the environment around it to grow trees. No complaints.



But in that case, it's weird that it sucks up less pollution when fueled by crushed coal, no? I mean, the math checks out (75% of -0.5 is -0.375), but I thought the point of crushed coal was to reduce pollution - so maybe it shouldn't reduce the efficiency of pollution-sucking machines? Maybe a bug? Maybe I'm stupid?

enchant wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:45 am

I'm a couple hours into my first game with this. I'm playing this mod on top of pure vanilla.

First: Holy crap. I'm a big steampunk fan and the graphics and animations in this mod are gorgeous. I ate my breakfast while zoomed in on an assembly machine making copper plate. Looking forward to all the rest. Also looking forward to Katherine of Sky doing a series on this. She's gonna lose her freakin' mind.

I have a question about the burner inserters. I understand that all inserters must be fed coal. This adds an extra level of complexity to automation. Inserters that are taking goods out of an assembly machine must be fed coal by another inserter. But looking at the intro to this mod in FFF, the second image down shows a small section of the factory. Just up/right of center is an assembly machine making belts. It is being fed materials from the top and extracting belts to the right via inserters. But as far as I can see, these inserters aren't getting fed coal. How is that working? Is the player running around hand feeding fuel?

I highly recommend you add Fill4Me. It will put coal into inserters/assemblers for you when you place them.

I ran the numbers and a copper assembler should last about 4.5 hours with 200 units of coal. This makes them plenty viable, even when electricity is first available.

Drury wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:38 pm

Noticed something a little odd with the autoforester.

I assume the negative pollution number means it sucks pollution up? Makes sense, it uses CO2 from the environment around it to grow trees. No complaints.

But in that case, it's weird that it sucks up less pollution when fueled by crushed coal, no? I mean, the math checks out (75% of -0.5 is -0.375), but I thought the point of crushed coal was to reduce pollution - so maybe it shouldn't reduce the efficiency of pollution-sucking machines? Maybe a bug? Maybe I'm stupid?

This is a fun interaction with fuel pollution modifier. The fuel pollution modifier is expecting to modify a positive amount of pollution. Negative pollution only makes sense for electric buildings that aren't seeing variable fuel pollution modifiers.

Drury wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:38 pm

But in that case, it's weird that it sucks up less pollution when fueled by crushed coal, no? I mean, the math checks out (75% of -0.5 is -0.375), but I thought the point of crushed coal was to reduce pollution - so maybe it shouldn't reduce the efficiency of pollution-sucking machines? Maybe a bug? Maybe I'm stupid?

Ugh. Less of a bug, more of a completely unintended consequence.

Fuels can specify a pollution multiplier, which is what crushed coal does - it has a modifier of 0.75. So in that sense, the modifier doesn't "reduce" pollution. It multiplies whatever value the machine is set to, positive or negative. I bet you that if this got reported the answer would be "not a bug, working as intended". There are no negative pollution machines in vanilla, it's only terrain and trees that do it, and those don't run on coal, fortunately for squirrels.

Not sure if anything can be done about it without an all-round loss in every other situation. The pollution reduction from foresters is pretty low to be honest, 75% of not a lot is still not a lot. If people continue to find it jarring and a problem then the best way to solve it is to remove the cleaning effect of bronze foresters, and have it as a perk for the electric version.

Edited to add: Having thought about it, I'm going to go ahead and do that. Burner machines don't make much sense to start with, but a coal-powered machine that reduces pollution is a whole other kettle of fish. The very minor pollution benefit (considering what boilers put out) stays for the electric forester.

Edited again: Yep, it absolutely has to change. Fuel with a positive pollution multiplier (i.e. fuel that makes pollution worse, not better) makes bronze foresters super-effective. Because that's what multipliers do. Fixed in next version.

MiiNiPaa wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:45 pm

Doing this without adjustable inserters is actually fun.

The inserter above the yellow belt assembler looks like it's reaching up-left. Is it having a stroke?

enchant wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:51 pm

MiiNiPaa wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:45 pm

Doing this without adjustable inserters is actually fun.

The inserter above the yellow belt assembler looks like it's reaching up-left. Is it having a stroke?

No it just likes to take long swings to the target

Oops, my 4.5 hour calculation was based on Krastorio numbers. So 1.78 hours.

I did some throughput testing on the Long burner inserters and and to my surprise they seems to behave exactly like regular long inserters performance wise - not including the time they might spend fuelling themselves.

While I had the test setup ready I confirmed my suspicion that this is true for even the normal length burner inserters as well - they are (electric) inserter clones.

Here's the table:

ThreePounds wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:04 pm

While I had the test setup ready I confirmed my suspicion that this is true for even the normal length burner inserters as well - they are (electric) inserter clones.

Yes. They are.

I didn't want to inflict an extended burner phase on people without throwing them the occasional bone.

The mod portal page has the wrong license listed.

alercah wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:08 pm

The mod portal page has the wrong license listed.

No, it doesn't. I'm literally in the middle of updating the mod.

Ah, hah, my bad then.

And personally, my favourite nuclear mod to see integration with would be Realistic Reactors. And even just getting rid of the unrealistic ones altogether hehehe

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Version: 0.9.999
Date: 07. 09. 2019
License:
- The license changed to CC BY-NC-ND 4.0 (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/).
- This is exactly the same license as the one used by Pyanodon's mods and Angel's mods.
New:
- Added a description of how the generator manager works to all generator equipment. Suggested by Ranakastrasz.
Fixes:
- Fixed that sulphur was on the wrong tab on the item filter menu.
- Removed laser turrets and electric arc turrets from disassembly recipes (too many results for the disassembler machine to handle).
- Demoted logs about redundant items from warning to debug, and removed other log spam.
- Generator manager quickbar shortcut and keyboard control name references were still a bit wonky, fixed.
- Bronze bearings locale string had a typo.
Balancing:
- Bronze forester: No longer has negative pollution. It interacted badly with fuel multipliers. Pollution now zero.
- Electric forester: Still has negative pollution. Their cleaning power increased.
- This means that solar-powered electric foresters produce better net cleaning than before, but steam-powered ones still have net pollution emissions.
Compatibility:
- DSB/DCM/AAI: Prevented a whole set of possible and existing issues with DSB/DCM circular tech errors, e.g. when AAI is also active.
- AAI: Fixed that copper drills and burner inserters were not enabled on new game start.
- Dectorio: fixed that vanilla ores were mistakenly being hidden from item filter menus.
- Changed the way that saplings are added to vanilla trees, to try and preserve changes other mods might have made (where possible).
Known compatibility issues:
- Dectorio + Alien Biomes: Dectorio does not handle IR's perfectly valid minable results property for trees in its Alien Biomes support. Reported to the author.
- AAI: "Starting crash sequence" provides some relatively trivial items that the player shouldn't really be able to access. Will be fixed, but low priority. To avoid it for now, turn off the crash sequence in AAI settings.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

author questions
and how many species are there resources for mining *? and will there be new ones? such as titanium, tungsten, zinc, and other components

а сколько видов существует ресурсов для добычи*? и будут ли новые? типа титана, вольфрама, цинка, и прочих компонентов

It feels odd to me that Laser doesn't require Optics. Is that intentional?

I've not really been much of a mod person since the days of Oblivion (wrote a dozen or so, learned my lesson) and the initial launch of Skyrim, both which were mod it 'till you break it experiences for me.
To that end, I've scurried through the Factorio mod portal a few times, but never clicked to install any, as overall my Factorio experience has been contented enough to not bother with.
But you sir (or madam? or gender fluid?), have changed that.
I can only imagine the heartache and untold effort you've put into this amazing mod, and can't wait for my faulty DSL connection to complete downloading the assets, so I can take it for a spin.

Many thanks in advance Deadlock. Amazing work, and I genuinely mean that in a not just a nice thing to say way. Good luck moving towards your 1.0 goal.

Cheers!

I noticed the projectors didn't make it into the release. Are they something still lined up for future or a scrapped idea?

Great mod ! I found it thanks to the FFF. I played a few hours yesterday, and so far it's complex without being overwhelming. I didn't play much since 0.17 came out, now I got that factorio itch going again Thanks !

The tin chest opening and closing sounds is too loud. It is much louder than the passive provider chest which has an acceptable noise level. Most likely all "new chests" are too loud, but I did not try them all.

alercah wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:48 am

It feels odd to me that Laser doesn't require Optics. Is that intentional?

Uh. Maybe? Don't remember. With the tech tree, IR is more concerned with order of unlocks. "Conceptual" prerequisites are also a thing, but I did occasionally scrap one if it messed the tree up too much. Long, long dependencies reaching back through 5 hours of research make the tree visualisation ugly. Looking at the distance between Optics and Lasers, it may have been one of those, or not.