[MOD 0.17] Industrial Revolution

[BlueTemplar]

Oh right, or if it deletes some of your components... erasing and overwriting the whole productivity list just seems rude considering how the list works ?

[Deadlock989]

Oh right, or if it deletes some of your components... erasing and overwriting the whole productivity list just seems rude considering how the list works ?

Depends, on the scope and scale. If Bob's mods or Angel's overwrote the prod limitation lists at the very earliest stage of the loading process, it'd be understandable. Part of the definition of "overhaul", you don't get to change the entirety of vanilla premises about gameplay and a bucket-tonne of new shiz without breaking a few eggs. IR does it, but again, as early as it possibly can. But if some tiny mod called "Zzzqxqyzyz", which is someone's favourite way of adding productivity 9000% modules to the game, decides to replace the entire list with a carbon copy of the vanilla list plus one extra recipe, in the last of the three stages of the loading process, then no other mod has time to recover from it and the "bug" reports still come to me anyway ...

I'm going to experiment with recipe descriptions for productivity notifications and see how handy it is. If I like it, it'll go in, and if they're wrong with some other mod installed, that's just life.

[Deadlock989]

That didn't take long.

You can't easily use a recipe description because if you set a localised description for a recipe, it replaces any info about the properties of the main product of the recipe. So no fuel values, no pollution modifiers, etc. etc. You have to recreate all of that. I already brushed against that elsewhere and it took hours to replicate the lost info, but there was a good reason for it then, this is more marginal.

As for the icon overlay ... tried it, sorry, hate it.

[mathiaszealot]

That didn't take long.

You can't easily use a recipe description because if you set a localised description for a recipe, it replaces any info about the properties of the main product of the recipe. So no fuel values, no pollution modifiers, etc. etc. You have to recreate all of that. I already brushed against that elsewhere and it took hours to replicate the lost info, but there was a good reason for it then, this is more marginal.

As for the icon overlay ... tried it, sorry, hate it.

Well it was worth a try.

If it truly is all the Processing and Basic Component recipes, that simplifies things greatly. I expect the change in tool tip back to something close to the default won't quite fix the confusion (or at least wouldn't be helpful). If it were changed to something like "Production Modules are only usable in Processing and Basic Component recipes" in reference to the tabs, might that work better? Its clearer to me, at least.

Thank you for the investigation and explanation.

[Deadlock989]

Well it was worth a try.

If it truly is all the Processing and Basic Component recipes, that simplifies things greatly. ...

It isn't. It's none of the Basic Component recipes, they are all excluded on purpose. It's most of the Processing tab - all the crushing and refining, all the ingots, all the oil. For some reason some of the plastic and glass stuff is missing, that could be an oversight, but a few things like the graphite electrode are excluded and that's correct. I will be re-assessing all of this during the Big Balance Pass after 0.17.69 drops, ready to get the mod to 1.0.0. Ironically, having some sort of visual indicator or a tooltip would make that a lot easier.

[Deadlock989]

0.17.69 should be out this week. Once it drops, IR 0.99.4 will be released.

There is one major change: disassembly is dead, long live scrapping.



From the changelog:

- Disassembly wasn't working for me, and having read feedback, I don't think it was working well for anyone. It had a fugly menu and did not solve the problem it was created for.
- So it has been entirely replaced with scrapping. Scrapping offers a way to recover and reprocess some of the metal and glass from any item, with a processing cost. Even plates, rivets, ammo.
- Scrapping technology is unlockable sooner after the Iron Age milestone than disassembling was - it does not depend on Automation 2 as before.
- Scrapping cannot be done as hand-crafting. Obtaining scrap requires a Scrapping Machine (or, optionally, explosions).
- The scrapping process returns scrap, funnily enough. Scrap can be melted down back into ingots. 1 scrap = 4 ingots.
- Scrapped items return between 50% and 100% of the metals invested, i.e. an average of approximately 75%, a better return than disassemblers had.
- However any non-metallic/glassy components are destroyed in the scrapping process. They become pollution and go to Item Heaven.
- Scrapping recipes that can only return less than 1 but more than 0 scrap do so probabilistically - the return works out to about the same 75% rate over time.
- Scrapping machines won't accept items that have no metal/glass at all in their composition. If you don't want those, incinerate them.
- An opt-in setting was added for players who would like destroyed buildings to drop lootable scrap when destroyed. The amount dropped is always less than automated scrapping, also depends on building size and RNG.
- Scrapping is "anti-crafting". It cannot reverse smelting, alloying or chemistry (with the exception of some glass recipes).
- Chrome-plated components are scrapped as steel. The chrome plating is lost, as is any other fluid component in scrapping.
- The time it takes to scrap an item is related to how much scrap it returns. One copper cable is very fast, a rocket silo might require a cup of tea.
- Scrapping machines have five output slots, the maximum that will not distort the GUI. If the item being scrapped contains more than five scrap sources, only the five most common are returned.
- Scrapping machines have a retouch of the disassembler's sprite, but with a cheekier grin.
- Disassemblers were removed from the mod. They have deliberately not been migrated to Scrapping Machines, because they are a lot hungrier for your itamz.
- Better for players to lose a couple of machines from a beta version saved game than have an entire depot's worth of parts suddenly trashed without any warning.

[CDCobra]

dlock989,

I do not understand that you did not know my question.

As I said before, I am ready to pay you for your rights.
For me, this is the right return for your phenomenal work.

I get the impression that you simply do not want to receive any currency and you do not want your mod to be broadcast at all.

It's a shame that you react in this way.
The broadcast of your mod, in addition to being broadcast by the developers to the large number, could be increased.

You would see your designer statue take on a whole new dimension.
Maybe to the key a recruitment on bigger edition.

As I told you, I am very interested as a streamer to make known your mod and I am to reward you in cash for your work.

I would like to know the possibilities of payment and the desired amount.

I thank you in advance for a possible response from you.

Cordially.

CD.Cobra

[Aquaholic27]

If you broadcast it without making money from the broadcast, then you’re fine if I’m understanding the terms correctly. So as long as you’re not making money from the video, permission is given. I think - I may be wrong.

[BHakluyt]

Hi Deadlock! Those scrap sprites look cool but a little bit prestige. Maybe add a few dots of rust/dents or something? And otherwise I totally agree, in 20hours + of playing this mod I have not disassembled once even...

Edit...oh and I wanted to say thank you for making the mod. You get a lot of compliments because it looks good etc, but really, thank you, too...

[Stimpatch]

... And otherwise I totally agree, in 20hours + of playing this mod I have not disassembled once even...

Well, i did. Its cool to be able to recycle stuff, that gives you a good feeling not to waste. But it turns yout a lot of stuff you get from the disassembler you cnanot put to use anymore. Copper Pistons are only used (so far) in the starting Items. If you move on and only can use copper for science, those pistons wont help you one bit.
Converting to scrap and then to ingots again is the perfect solution for this.

[Deadlock989]

Hi Deadlock! Those scrap sprites look cool but a little bit prestige. Maybe add a few dots of rust/dents or something? And otherwise I totally agree, in 20hours + of playing this mod I have not disassembled once even...

Lol. Your mistake here was to use the term "prestige". I now immediately want to be sitting on a mountain of "prestige scrap".

I hesitate about calling them "sprites", although you are right, they are technically sprites - but mainly they are icons. Most players will only ever see them at 32x32 in the crafting grid. Players running 4K monitors with the GUI at 200% might see them at 64x64 a bit more often. Not a lot of scope for detail in there - and if you add too much dirt then they all become similar-looking when interpolated down to 32x32. Icons have to be symbolic and representative and carry information - the key information here is "which metal are they".

But you are right, they are a bit tidy, I might be able to dent them up a bit.

Well, i did. Its cool to be able to recycle stuff, that gives you a good feeling not to waste. But it turns yout a lot of stuff you get from the disassembler you cnanot put to use anymore. Copper Pistons are only used (so far) in the starting Items. If you move on and only can use copper for science, those pistons wont help you one bit.
Converting to scrap and then to ingots again is the perfect solution for this.

Exactly - essentially it returns things to the very bottom of the crafting tree, so your mountain of copper ammo from Stone Age defences can eventually be turned into science packs or whatever, with a loss and with a pollution/processing/energy cost of course.

Fun fact: IR is secretly IR2. The disassembly recipe generator code was the oldest part of the mod, the only piece of code that survived from IR1, the version I abandoned in 2018. The only other thing left from that era is the plate icon's model (which is a literal cuboid). Now it's just the plate.

[BlueTemplar]

Can't Scrap Stone-based components into Gravel or something ? (Sounds more realistic than Incinerating...)

in 20hours + of playing this mod I have not disassembled once even...

What did you do with Pistol, Light Armor, Stone Furnaces ?

[Deadlock989]

Can't Scrap Stone-based components into Gravel or something ? (Sounds more realistic than Incinerating...)

Considered it. It's not like the player is short of ways to get gravel ... The only thing that makes me hesitate is the concrete. You get the iron/steel back from scrapped concrete, but the rest vanishes. But what are you doing scrapping oil refineries, centrifuges and rocket silos in the first place ...

"Realism" isn't especially important to me, or at least, it's less important than mechanics and balance and Factorioness and fun. This is not a simulator. But if someone can show me numbers or common early/mid-game situations that demonstrate a compelling case for gravel or even raw stone being returned from scrapping, in the context of scrapping being a way of reducing waste caused by the technology jumps between Age and Age, you have about 6 hours to change my mind. Remember also that the scrap recipe generator has to cap the results at 5 products, so including more products means more potential for losing out on other things (this currently only affects a very small handful of the most expensive items that you would be bonkers to scrap in the first place, e.g. rocket silos, ion probes etc., and I'd rather that didn't change).

Plastic, never, that stuff is destined to wind up wrapped around baby biters' necks in a tragic set of photos on the biter version of Instagram and no-one is going to change my mind about that.

[Blu3wolf]

Can someone point me in the direction of Krastorio's thread? Ive tried to search for it, but searching for Krastorio just gives me all the results from people talking about it in this thread...

I dont seem to be able to make Krastorio's coke recipe with Krastorio + IR. From previous posts, I believe this is something I should refer to Linver?

[Deadlock989]

Can someone point me in the direction of Krastorio's thread? Ive tried to search for it, but searching for Krastorio just gives me all the results from people talking about it in this thread...

I dont seem to be able to make Krastorio's coke recipe with Krastorio + IR. From previous posts, I believe this is something I should refer to Linver?

Krastorio thread on these forums is not very active, a lot more activity on their mod portal discussion page. There is also a link there to their Discord.

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Krastorio

From memory I think the coke issue was fixed in a recent K update.

[CDCobra]

Deabdlock989,

I find it unwise for you to answer all messages except mine.
I thought you would have had the descent of a courtesy or something else.
Your silence is an insult.

I unmount your mod today.

[Deadlock989]

Hi Deadlock! Those scrap sprites look cool but a little bit prestige. Maybe add a few dots of rust/dents or something?

This is as non-prestige as I can get it without starting to lose the colouring too much:

scraptastic.png (355.51 KiB) Viewed 4689 times

[McDuff]

... And otherwise I totally agree, in 20hours + of playing this mod I have not disassembled once even...

Well, i did. Its cool to be able to recycle stuff, that gives you a good feeling not to waste. But it turns yout a lot of stuff you get from the disassembler you cnanot put to use anymore. Copper Pistons are only used (so far) in the starting Items. If you move on and only can use copper for science, those pistons wont help you one bit.
Converting to scrap and then to ingots again is the perfect solution for this.

Agreed, this is a much better solution.

In general the mod has quite a lot of things that get made once then abandoned, and this happens more regularly than in the base game. It's good to be able to break things back down into their ingots.

Now, are there any late game uses for Bronze other than red science?

[BlueTemplar]

Bronze is for Green science.

Can't Scrap Stone-based components into Gravel or something ? (Sounds more realistic than Incinerating...)

[...]
But if someone can show me numbers or common early/mid-game situations that demonstrate a compelling case for gravel or even raw stone being returned from scrapping, in the context of scrapping being a way of reducing waste caused by the technology jumps between Age and Age, you have about 6 hours to change my mind.
[...]

Sure : the aforementioned Stone Furnaces...
Also Bronze Furnaces/Foresters, and later, Boilers (though those can get used up by Locomotives, eventually...)

Would also help if you ever made by mistake way too many Gates or Landfill... (bigger than vanilla chests and storage depots !)

Also, yeah, concrete crushing not even returning some gravel seems weird ?

P.S.: Stone seems to be the first resource I tend to run out of, and seems to be much rarer than tin/copper/iron/gold - even had to restart a game because of it... (RSO !)
P.P.S. :

stone_lack.png (523.2 KiB) Viewed 4648 times

And without stone, no Green/MilSci, no walls, no rails, no landfill...
Sure, one can always go around picking up rocks, but it gets old pretty fast (and even then, I doubt you can get significant amounts of it...)

[Therenas]

This is as non-prestige as I can get it without starting to lose the colouring too much:


scraptastic.png

Don't like those, looks like low-quality, static-y sprites somehow. Hm maybe they work when in motion or at different zoom levels, but that one shot isn't working for me at least.