[MOD 0.16] Bulk Rail Loaders

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Therax
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Re: [MOD 0.16] Bulk Rail Loaders

Post by Therax »

mrvn wrote:Note: I still have cases where the current entity ghosts loose wires. It mostly works though.
If you have specific reproducible scenarios I'll see what I can do about addressing them.
LTN stations have multiple entities and wire connections and seem to get them working flawlessly. Maybe take a peak there.
Yes, I'm looking at LTN for inspiration.
Miniloader — UPS-friendly 1x1 loaders
Bulk Rail Loaders — Rapid train loading and unloading
Beltlayer & Pipelayer — Route items and fluids freely underground

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Bulk Rail Loaders

Post by mrvn »

Therax wrote:
mrvn wrote:Note: I still have cases where the current entity ghosts loose wires. It mostly works though.
If you have specific reproducible scenarios I'll see what I can do about addressing them.
That's the problem. I'm blueprinting a train station for 5 cars, walk along it so bluebuild can build it and then 2 wires are missing or something. Doesn't seem to happen when I build the bulk rail loaders last. So something to do with wires to other ghosts.

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Bulk Rail Loaders

Post by Sworn »

Would be nice to have a way to increase the speed that it take/put itens in the trains, when you start to tech up with speed inserters, belts, stack size you start to put/take itens faster than they are load/unload.
Would be nice to have some way to increase that speed (if not factorio restriction).

I'm talking about the speed to load/unload a train it self that is done by the Bulk Loader/Unloader.

Those type of loader/unloader are usually used to raw material, as the mod itself proposed, so those raw itens can go faster because you won't "destroy" it, like a ton of Dirt, or Stone, or Iron Ore or Crushed Stone or some bones or whatever, just throw everything there and go.

For example:
- More tiers of loaders/unloader with faster "pumping".
- A tech that you can research like "inserter stacking bonus" that automagicly apply to all entity (loader/unloader, or one for each)
- Both the above mixed (tech tiers + research)
- A config that has the speed so you can change (last option if possible, to "meh")

A second sugestion would be add loaders/unloaders to liquid, so you can have all stations with it. Exactly like the itens, but for liquid, with the same config, some liquids only like water or mud water, or any.

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Bulk Rail Loaders

Post by Therax »

Sworn wrote:Would be nice to have a way to increase the speed that it take/put itens in the trains
BRLs already scale with inserter stack size bonus. If you're using other mods that add larger cargo wagons and the fully upgraded speed is insufficient, you probably also have additional research for more stack size bonus.
A second sugestion would be add loaders/unloaders to liquid, so you can have all stations with it. Exactly like the itens, but for liquid, with the same config, some liquids only like water or mud water, or any.
I don't really see liquids in the same way, because they are not loaded by gravity feed the same way solids are. There might be a niche for a combination (un)loader and storage buffer, but I would see that as something alongside the track as a combination tank and pump, which could reduce the minimum platform pitch in a liquid station.
Last edited by Therax on Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Miniloader — UPS-friendly 1x1 loaders
Bulk Rail Loaders — Rapid train loading and unloading
Beltlayer & Pipelayer — Route items and fluids freely underground

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Bulk Rail Loaders

Post by Sworn »

They do it already :o ?! Damm thanks for the info, I just need to research it then.
So those mode that add more research to capacity will work to right? like "infinite-capacity for factorio" that add infinite research to capacity bonus.
I didn't got there yet, I have two rows of faster long inserter (adjustable from bob) on each side (24 each weagon) with just +1 to bonus so I was thinking that speed was limited by the loader/unloader.

Yeh the liquid suggestion was just to make "even" loaders / unloaders, as it get very different for the traditional tank pump to the bulk loader, more visual than functional.

Any way, thanks for the quick reply.

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Bulk Rail Loaders

Post by waabsheshi »

Therax wrote:
LTN stations have multiple entities and wire connections and seem to get them working flawlessly. Maybe take a peak there.
Yes, I'm looking at LTN for inspiration.
Enable/Disable control would still be useful even it shares a circuit connection with reading contents. We could always use a virtual signal from a separate combinator.

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Bulk Rail Loaders

Post by waabsheshi »

I'm
mrvn wrote:Could we get some circuit control for the loaders and unloaders? You already said you don't want a "set filter" feature but how about "enable"?

This is mostly needed for LTN stations. First LTN says how much to load into a train and I would like the bulk loader to stop if that amount is reached. It doesn't have to be exact. Whatever items the internal inserter has in it's hand can get loaded when the bulk loader/unloader is disabled. That is expected and makes sense.
While a direct circuit connection would be nice, It is still possible to use bulk loaders for LTN-controlled partial loads by using the oft-forgotten power switch. In my current playthrough (see screenshot) I power the loader through the switch which is set to disconnect (and stop the loader) when the train has its order filled. It's a little ugly, but quite functional.
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Re: [MOD 0.16] Bulk Rail Loaders

Post by mrvn »

Ahh, take charge of those bulk loaders. You have the power. :)

I might have to space my stations differently and/or use different power poles for this. Might work.

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Bulk Rail Loaders

Post by Therax »

waabsheshi wrote:Enable/Disable control would still be useful even it shares a circuit connection with reading contents. We could always use a virtual signal from a separate combinator.
I'd considered this before, but wasn't able to find a clean solution. Looking at it again now, I think I've got something that works, by having a virtual signal that tells the BRL to stop transferring items. As discussed before, they do tend to overshoot by a bit due to combinator delay and the sheer number of items "in flight". Give 0.5.0 a try and let me know what you think.

Here's a simple example that keeps a reserve of roughly 2k ore in a loader. Integration with LTN is an exercise left to the reader. :)
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Miniloader — UPS-friendly 1x1 loaders
Bulk Rail Loaders — Rapid train loading and unloading
Beltlayer & Pipelayer — Route items and fluids freely underground

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Bulk Rail Loaders

Post by waabsheshi »

Thanks, I just tried this and it works quite nicely. My setup is now way tidier than the one with power switches.

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Bulk Rail Loaders

Post by triktor »

This mod is very useful, but would be great if there was something similar to this for fluid trains, built with some storage tanks or something, but this is way too useful for not having something similar for fluids lol

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Bulk Rail Loaders

Post by Gaist »

Any chance of tech options to increase the throughput for the bulk loaders and unloaders? They're quite cool, but still seem to fall behind in contrast to higher end throughput from inserters / loaders (at least in an angelbob setup.)

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Bulk Rail Loaders

Post by Therax »

triktor wrote:This mod is very useful, but would be great if there was something similar to this for fluid trains, built with some storage tanks or something, but this is way too useful for not having something similar for fluids lol
I'm looking into options here, but it's tricky because pumps must apparently be 2x1 to correctly connect to fluid wagons, so it's not as simple as it may seem.
Gaist wrote:Any chance of tech options to increase the throughput for the bulk loaders and unloaders? They're quite cool, but still seem to fall behind in contrast to higher end throughput from inserters / loaders (at least in an angelbob setup.)
If you're finding throughput insufficient, you can use something like https://mods.factorio.com/mod/InfiniteI ... y_Research, since BRL speed scales with stack inserter bonus. They'll never quite be as fast as a set of (ultimate/turbo/whatever) stack inserters, since those also benefit from stack size increase, but this is by design as the balance tradeoff for being able to make compact stations with built-in buffer space.
Miniloader — UPS-friendly 1x1 loaders
Bulk Rail Loaders — Rapid train loading and unloading
Beltlayer & Pipelayer — Route items and fluids freely underground

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Bulk Rail Loaders

Post by cbtendo »

in the front page it says:
From MadClown's Extended AngelBob Minerals:
Additional ores and refined variants
however oil sands from madclown's extended angelbob minerals didn't work for me

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Bulk Rail Loaders

Post by Cadde »

If i may be so bold as to make a feature request?
Simples, i promise!

Disable interface chest transfer when "railloader disabled" signal is high. This way i can set requester chests to a specific amount of each item before transferring it to the rail loader. This makes it easier to fill mixed item trains with the exact necessary items without overflowing the BRL.

I know i can read the contents of the BRL and feed that back (X*-1) to requester chests so they adjust their requests accordingly with what exists in the BRL but that makes a circuit network mess. It would be simpler if all BRL functionality would stop with the BRL disable circuit signal.

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Bulk Rail Loaders

Post by Therax »

Cadde wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:30 am
Disable interface chest transfer when "railloader disabled" signal is high.... It would be simpler if all BRL functionality would stop with the BRL disable circuit signal.
Makes sense to me. I'll see about adding this in. Glad to hear someone is getting good use out of the interface chest feature. :)
Miniloader — UPS-friendly 1x1 loaders
Bulk Rail Loaders — Rapid train loading and unloading
Beltlayer & Pipelayer — Route items and fluids freely underground

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Bulk Rail Loaders

Post by Cadde »

Therax wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:01 am
Cadde wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:30 am
Disable interface chest transfer when "railloader disabled" signal is high.... It would be simpler if all BRL functionality would stop with the BRL disable circuit signal.
Makes sense to me. I'll see about adding this in. Glad to hear someone is getting good use out of the interface chest feature. :)
Yeah i am indeed. Last time i tried it though (3.8) it didn't work for logistic chests. ;)
Was halfway writing a post about it... I checked the code, couldn't discern why it shouldn't... Checked the change logs... 4.0 fixed that. So thanks!

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Bulk Rail Loaders

Post by mrvn »

Cadde wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:30 am
If i may be so bold as to make a feature request?
Simples, i promise!

Disable interface chest transfer when "railloader disabled" signal is high. This way i can set requester chests to a specific amount of each item before transferring it to the rail loader. This makes it easier to fill mixed item trains with the exact necessary items without overflowing the BRL.

I know i can read the contents of the BRL and feed that back (X*-1) to requester chests so they adjust their requests accordingly with what exists in the BRL but that makes a circuit network mess. It would be simpler if all BRL functionality would stop with the BRL disable circuit signal.
Maybe have two signals. One for transfering to trains and one to chests. With that feature you could transfer one cargo wagons worth of items to the BRL and then request the next lot while the "chest transfer" is disabled. Then when a train comes you enable the "train transfer" till the BRL is empty. Then disable "train transfer" and enable "chest transfer" till the chest is empty. Last you disable "chest transfer" again and request the next batch of items.

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Bulk Rail Loaders

Post by Cadde »

mrvn wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:20 am
Maybe have two signals. One for transfering to trains and one to chests. With that feature you could transfer one cargo wagons worth of items to the BRL and then request the next lot while the "chest transfer" is disabled. Then when a train comes you enable the "train transfer" till the BRL is empty. Then disable "train transfer" and enable "chest transfer" till the chest is empty. Last you disable "chest transfer" again and request the next batch of items.
That sounds even better now that you mention it!

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Bulk Rail Loaders

Post by SavedByGrace251 »

After updating the mod, I keep getting this error when placing entities.
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