[MOD 0.16] Miniloader

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Miniloader

Post by Therax » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:13 am

Sunnova wrote:Filters are a great idea, but either filtered or not??
Any chance you will make a version that makes two of each miniloader? The existing non filtered miniloader so bases won't break, and put in new entities for the filtered versions so they can start being used without braking an existing game?

Edit:

I went ahead and made me a version that allows both the normal miniloaders and filtered miniloaders, well worth doing.
I just used the same graphics for both versions, name difference is enough, don't care that the two types look the same.

Hope you make a version that has both types, then I can drop my temp version, I can phase out loaderRedux now.

Thanks for the great mod!
I'm definitely graphics-limited at the moment. I have some ideas. One possibility is to make the color of the arrows on the miniloader different based on whether it has filters or not.

I'm also still liking the idea of true bulk hopper loaders, with a large internal buffer (at least as much as a full cargo wagon) and extremely rapid transfer to/from train wagons, but only able to handle ores and similar bulk products.
Miniloader — UPS-friendly 1x1 loaders
Bulk Rail Loaders — Rapid train loading and unloading
Beltlayer & Pipelayer — Route items and fluids freely underground

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Re: [MOD 0.15] Miniloader

Post by Therax » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:14 am

cvkurt wrote:Just started a FactorioExtended game... would be nice if miniloaders support FactorioExtended belts (much like Bob's belts).
At first glance this doesn't look too difficult. I'll have a look once the 1.4.0 migration issues are worked out.
Miniloader — UPS-friendly 1x1 loaders
Bulk Rail Loaders — Rapid train loading and unloading
Beltlayer & Pipelayer — Route items and fluids freely underground

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Miniloader

Post by Therax » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:16 am

Sunnova wrote:Having the same thing happen, I'm using the mod CollectDroppedItemsHotkey to clean up, still have to run around and clear unwanted items from belts that are contaminating belt feeds into entities.
staviq wrote:It kind of sort of creates a small case of a huge mess by spilling everything on the whole length of the connected belts on the ground.
Is this happening only on first load of an old saved game where you have just upgraded to 1.4.0?
Miniloader — UPS-friendly 1x1 loaders
Bulk Rail Loaders — Rapid train loading and unloading
Beltlayer & Pipelayer — Route items and fluids freely underground

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Miniloader

Post by nuhll » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:34 am

Does this mess still happens?

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Miniloader

Post by Sunnova » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:47 am

yes, it looks like it's on the first load of the upgrade to 1.4.0. I've saved and loaded a few times since cleaning up everything and not seen it happen again. I'll let you know if it does.
Therax wrote:
Sunnova wrote:Having the same thing happen, I'm using the mod CollectDroppedItemsHotkey to clean up, still have to run around and clear unwanted items from belts that are contaminating belt feeds into entities.
staviq wrote:It kind of sort of creates a small case of a huge mess by spilling everything on the whole length of the connected belts on the ground.
Is this happening only on first load of an old saved game where you have just upgraded to 1.4.0?

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Miniloader

Post by Sunnova » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:01 am

Colored arrows is a good idea, didn't even think of that. Keep the yellow arrows for normal filters, white for the filtered versions? Bulk hopper loaders also sound good. :) I copied the existing graphics and created versions with the name filtered in it, was going for minimal changes in your code to have both normal and filtered miniloaders at the same time.

I just duplicated your functions in the data.lua and the ingredients for the filtered versions, added filtered- in front of miniloader before prefix.

local function create_filtered_loader(prefix)
local loader_name = prefix .. "filtered-miniloader"

and got rid of the settings.startup, moved that code into the new functions.

Working great so far.
Therax wrote:I'm definitely graphics-limited at the moment. I have some ideas.
One possibility is to make the color of the arrows on the miniloader different based on whether it has filters or not.

I'm also still liking the idea of true bulk hopper loaders, with a large internal buffer (at least as much as a full cargo wagon) and extremely rapid transfer to/from train wagons, but only able to handle ores and similar bulk products.

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Miniloader

Post by Therax » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:18 am

Sunnova wrote:Colored arrows is a good idea, didn't even think of that. Keep the yellow arrows for normal filters, white for the filtered versions?
The color of the yellow arrows on the details (ALT) view is unfortunately fixed. I was thinking of the little green arrows that appear on the top of the miniloader structure.
Miniloader — UPS-friendly 1x1 loaders
Bulk Rail Loaders — Rapid train loading and unloading
Beltlayer & Pipelayer — Route items and fluids freely underground

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Miniloader

Post by Sunnova » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:30 am

That would work! :)
Therax wrote:The color of the yellow arrows on the details (ALT) view is unfortunately fixed. I was thinking of the little green arrows that appear on the top of the miniloader structure.

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Miniloader

Post by pleauser » Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:40 am

Bug Found:
Place a chest. place some miniloaders exiting said chest. come back to it to fix something and attempt remove the belt/underground the loader is dropping onto.
get this error message.
place a loader. place an underground. attempt to place the other end of the underground. get the error.

Image
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9jk1ohxkcdcls ... 0108-1.jpg

Also get this error or one extremely similiar if you try to upgrade the item (say yellow underground to red) which seems logical.. except in this case my factorio crashes.

found on a save with a LOT of mods (bobs run +others lol) confirmed with just this mod and creative mode to test.

factorio 0.16.15
Miniloader: 1.40
creative-mode-fix: 0.0.15
--
ps: excited for the new features :)

edit: posted to bug reports about the related game crash
edit: i got myself a bit turned around in posting what to which post.
Last edited by pleauser on Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Miniloader

Post by Therax » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:03 am

Sunnova wrote:yes, it looks like it's on the first load of the upgrade to 1.4.0. I've saved and loaded a few times since cleaning up everything and not seen it happen again. I'll let you know if it does.
By any chance are you using a mod that significantly increases inserter stack size bonus? If the inserters in your miniloaders were holding dozens of items prior to the update, that could explain the spillage.
pleauser wrote:Bug Found:
Place a chest. place some miniloaders exiting said chest. come back to it to fix something and attempt remove the belt/underground the loader is dropping onto.
get this error message.
Thanks for the report! I should be able to fix that later today.
Miniloader — UPS-friendly 1x1 loaders
Bulk Rail Loaders — Rapid train loading and unloading
Beltlayer & Pipelayer — Route items and fluids freely underground

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Miniloader

Post by Therax » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:20 am

Update:

So far the issue of belts spilling their contents on the ground when updating from 1.3.0 to 1.4.0 looks like possibly a Factorio core bug. Well, perhaps not a bug, but more an unexpected behavior. I have a workaround in mind, but it's likely going to take a little while to implement and test.

If you're willing, the workaround mentioned by staviq is effective:

With miniloader 1.3.0 installed, do something to interrupt the belt feeding into your miniloaders (adding a circuit wire, removing the last belt segment, or marking the last belt segment for deconstruction should all work), then update to 1.4.0, and then restore the belt connection.
Miniloader — UPS-friendly 1x1 loaders
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Re: [MOD 0.16] Miniloader

Post by Sunnova » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:54 pm

I use side inserters 2.3.4 and long inserters 1.0.1, I don't think they change the stack size at all, but I'm not going to swear to that, I didn't see anything in the code for either from a quick glance.

For me the spillage didn't happen when feeding belts, those were all fine, it did happen when inserting into chests or assembly machines.
Therax wrote:
Sunnova wrote:yes, it looks like it's on the first load of the upgrade to 1.4.0. I've saved and loaded a few times since cleaning up everything and not seen it happen again. I'll let you know if it does.
By any chance are you using a mod that significantly increases inserter stack size bonus? If the inserters in your miniloaders were holding dozens of items prior to the update, that could explain the spillage.

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Miniloader

Post by Therax » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:56 pm

Version 1.4.1 is now available, which should fix the underground belt placement crash, and the spillage of items when updating from 1.3.0.
If you've already updated to 1.4.0, I'm afraid there's nothing I can do to fix the existing spillage. Let me know as you find further issues. Thanks to all enjoying the mod!
Miniloader — UPS-friendly 1x1 loaders
Bulk Rail Loaders — Rapid train loading and unloading
Beltlayer & Pipelayer — Route items and fluids freely underground

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Miniloader

Post by pleauser » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:59 pm

thanks for the fast update!

i have a quick question. when it comes to using loaders direct to a train i've always had to use a pair of them. is this normal/as intended or am I missing something? lol

just in case what i'm asking is obtuse, see attached. (edit: I didn't know about inline image preview, cool!)
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Re: [MOD 0.16] Miniloader

Post by Therax » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:18 pm

pleauser wrote:thanks for the fast update!

i have a quick question. when it comes to using loaders direct to a train i've always had to use a pair of them. is this normal/as intended or am I missing something? lol
This is normal. Loaders move items from containers to belts or vice versa. For container to container transfers, stack inserters perform pretty well, whereas compressing a belt with inserters requires more space be used.

I originally envisioned miniloaders to be used with trains without an immediate chest or warehouse as a buffer. For example, an ore unloading station with multiple parallel tracks and ore unloaded from cargo wagons to belts, then those belts transiting the tracks to a separate storage area. This lets you space the tracks closely together while still having good throughput. If you always put warehouses next to every track, there's not much benefit other than an aesthetic one over a set of stack inserters.
Miniloader — UPS-friendly 1x1 loaders
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Re: [MOD 0.16] Miniloader

Post by pleauser » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:52 am

Therax wrote:
pleauser wrote:thanks for the fast update!

i have a quick question. when it comes to using loaders direct to a train i've always had to use a pair of them. is this normal/as intended or am I missing something? lol
This is normal. Loaders move items from containers to belts or vice versa. For container to container transfers, stack inserters perform pretty well, whereas compressing a belt with inserters requires more space be used.

I originally envisioned miniloaders to be used with trains without an immediate chest or warehouse as a buffer. For example, an ore unloading station with multiple parallel tracks and ore unloaded from cargo wagons to belts, then those belts transiting the tracks to a separate storage area. This lets you space the tracks closely together while still having good throughput. If you always put warehouses next to every track, there's not much benefit other than an aesthetic one over a set of stack inserters.
Good point, i've been doing this out of habit. will have a think :)

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Miniloader 1.41

Post by pleauser » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:04 am

found some errors.

after migrating from 1.3 to 1.41:

#1 attempting to rotate a migrated yellow loader causes a crash. Did not happen when i placed a yellow loader and then rotated it. Did not happen for a red loader (migrated or non). I do not have any blue loaders made :(
error20180109.jpg
error20180109.jpg (23.04 KiB) Viewed 1415 times
#2 mining the migrated loader to replace it with a new one mines two apparent copies that don't add to inventory totals and leaves something invisible behind that prevents placement.
error20180109-2.jpg
error20180109-2.jpg (44.47 KiB) Viewed 1415 times
#3 text displayed for all loaders is missing something
text problem.jpg
text problem.jpg (28.58 KiB) Viewed 1415 times
#4 graphics on migrated sideways yellow ioaders do not match direction of actual motion.
17617184.png
17617184.png (178.44 KiB) Viewed 1415 times

I ran into more oddities related to copying filter settings but since the base is tiny bit unstable I don't think they're fruitful at this time :)

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Miniloader

Post by pleauser » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:13 am

Therax wrote:
Sunnova wrote:Filters are a great idea, but either filtered or not??
Any chance you will make a version that makes two of each miniloader? The existing non filtered miniloader so bases won't break, and put in new entities for the filtered versions so they can start being used without braking an existing game?

Edit:

I went ahead and made me a version that allows both the normal miniloaders and filtered miniloaders, well worth doing.
I just used the same graphics for both versions, name difference is enough, don't care that the two types look the same.

Hope you make a version that has both types, then I can drop my temp version, I can phase out loaderRedux now.

Thanks for the great mod!
I'm definitely graphics-limited at the moment. I have some ideas. One possibility is to make the color of the arrows on the miniloader different based on whether it has filters or not.

I'm also still liking the idea of true bulk hopper loaders, with a large internal buffer (at least as much as a full cargo wagon) and extremely rapid transfer to/from train wagons, but only able to handle ores and similar bulk products.
for graphical ideas on filter vs non, why not have the small area around the arrow purple like the filter inserter for those versions and then on filtered versions have the arrow be green if a filter is set or grey is it isn't?

i like the hopper loader idea. only things that can survive a tumble like ore/plates can survive being dumped into a train car :) lets pretend that glass plates won't shatter of course :-p

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Miniloader 1.41

Post by Therax » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:53 am

pleauser wrote:found some errors.

after migrating from 1.3 to 1.41:

#1 attempting to rotate a migrated yellow loader causes a crash. Did not happen when i placed a yellow loader and then rotated it. Did not happen for a red loader (migrated or non). I do not have any blue loaders made :(
I've lost count of how many times I've done this. Yellow miniloaders are called "miniloader", while red are "fast-miniloader", and blue are "express-miniloader", just like vanilla. The problem comes when I write logic that looks for "-miniloader" (note the leading dash), and it works for every color except yellow. :D
pleauser wrote:#3 text displayed for all loaders is missing something
Is now fixed in 1.4.3. Thank you!
Miniloader — UPS-friendly 1x1 loaders
Bulk Rail Loaders — Rapid train loading and unloading
Beltlayer & Pipelayer — Route items and fluids freely underground

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Miniloader 1.41

Post by pleauser » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:36 am

Therax wrote:
pleauser wrote:found some errors.

after migrating from 1.3 to 1.41:

#1 attempting to rotate a migrated yellow loader causes a crash. Did not happen when i placed a yellow loader and then rotated it. Did not happen for a red loader (migrated or non). I do not have any blue loaders made :(
I've lost count of how many times I've done this. Yellow miniloaders are called "miniloader", while red are "fast-miniloader", and blue are "express-miniloader", just like vanilla. The problem comes when I write logic that looks for "-miniloader" (note the leading dash), and it works for every color except yellow. :D
pleauser wrote:#3 text displayed for all loaders is missing something
Is now fixed in 1.4.3. Thank you!
In other games I've written addons, In another life I programmed for work.. I find large scale baking very fulfilling somehow now :-p
games like factorio scratch the itch.. efficient bug reports are the least I can do.

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