[MOD 0.17] Xander Mod v3.2.0

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jodokus31
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Re: [MOD 0.16] Xander Mod v2.1.1

Post by jodokus31 » Thu May 02, 2019 10:28 pm

Therax wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 9:48 pm
Xander Mod (Therax) is now available on the mod portal. Most of the changes from tip-of-trunk are incorporated.

Things that work:
  • ore generation
  • mining times adjusted for default iron axe
  • assembler ingredient limits removed
Things that I know don't work yet:
  • 0.17 graphics updates (e.g. highres solar panels and new belt graphics)
  • axe research for XM materials
  • advanced processing units should require a VLSI CPU, but don't
  • science pack research
Please give it a try. I have lots of other plans, but wanted to get something released.
That's really nice. I hope I find some time to get started again.
BroMasterFlex wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:59 pm
I got it to work as long as I have the RSO mod installed with it. I ran into and fixed some issues. Then, I submitted a pull request to the update_0_17 branch that jodokus31 made.

https://github.com/justinbangerter/Xand ... pdate_0_17
Thanks for your effort. However, its probably better to move over to therax' fork.

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Xander Mod v2.1.1

Post by BroMasterFlex » Thu May 02, 2019 11:40 pm

jodokus31 wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 10:28 pm
Thanks for your effort. However, its probably better to move over to therax' fork.
Will do, thanks

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Xander Mod v2.1.1

Post by khadgarion » Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:22 pm

Therax wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 9:48 pm
Xander Mod (Therax) is now available on the mod portal. Most of the changes from tip-of-trunk are incorporated.

Things that work:
  • ore generation
  • mining times adjusted for default iron axe
  • assembler ingredient limits removed
Things that I know don't work yet:
  • 0.17 graphics updates (e.g. highres solar panels and new belt graphics)
  • axe research for XM materials
  • advanced processing units should require a VLSI CPU, but don't
  • science pack research
Please give it a try. I have lots of other plans, but wanted to get something released.
Hey Therax, glad to hear someone is working on a 0.17 update! I have been thinking of starting a new Xander's game. Please feel free to use any of the data in my 0.16 fixes in your 0.17 version, if that is even possible.

I may tinker with it in .17 but right now I'd just like to play =)

You said it's probably buggy, is there a specific place you would like bug reports?

Thanks!

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Xander Mod v2.1.1

Post by aklesey1 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:00 pm

Therax wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 9:48 pm
Xander Mod (Therax) is now available on the mod portal. Most of the changes from tip-of-trunk are incorporated.

Things that work:
  • ore generation
  • mining times adjusted for default iron axe
  • assembler ingredient limits removed
Things that I know don't work yet:
  • 0.17 graphics updates (e.g. highres solar panels and new belt graphics)
  • axe research for XM materials
  • advanced processing units should require a VLSI CPU, but don't
  • science pack research
Please give it a try. I have lots of other plans, but wanted to get something released.
Are u the successor author of this mod, Therax? Are you co-authoring with Repofme1?
So life of Xander mod is continued? :D
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Re: [MOD 0.16] Xander Mod v2.1.1

Post by Monochrome » Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:30 pm

(thank you, Therax, for getting it working with v0.17!)

The last week or two, on startup I've been seeing this error :
The given sprite rectangle (left_top=0x0, right_bottom=64x64) is outside the actual sprite size (left_top=0x0, right_bottom=32x32).
Adding the following lines in <xander-mod-th_2.2.0>\prototypes\item\material\material.lua ~ line 38 gets past it :

data.raw.item["coal"].icon_size = 32
data.raw.item["copper-ore"].icon_size = 32
data.raw.item["iron-ore"].icon_size = 32
data.raw.item["stone"].icon_size = 32

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Xander Mod v2.1.1

Post by Therax » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:43 pm

aklesey1 wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:00 pm
Are u the successor author of this mod, Therax? Are you co-authoring with Repofme1?
So life of Xander mod is continued? :D
I did get permission from Repofme1 to release a fork. I haven't heard from him in months, but if he pops up again with a new version of XM I would be happy to hand the reins back. For now I've released a new version with axe research and the new randomized graphics for ore on belts, as well as compatibility fixes for the latest 0.17 experimentals.

What would people like to see in the near future for the mod? There are some half-finished changes that Repofme1 was working on for ore processing, but I'm not enough of a materials science to really understand what he intended, although I've been doing a lot of Wikipedia reading. :lol:

Next on my plate is getting icons for the various placeholders in the tech tree, and fixing some of the problems in the processing units production chain.
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Re: [MOD 0.16] Xander Mod v2.1.1

Post by eradicator » Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:06 am

Therax wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:43 pm
What would people like to see in the near future for the mod?
An official guarantee that all the research/recipe chains are free of loopholes/deadlocks.
Smoothed balancing that guarantees that none of the things are ridiculously slow to produce (like oxygen was quite a while back).
Yea...the really boring requests i know. But the missing loaders pretty much broke my motivation on my latest attempt. I assume they're fixed now?
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Re: [MOD 0.16] Xander Mod v2.1.1

Post by Monochrome » Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:37 pm

Excellent work with the update, thank you!
eradicator wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:06 am
Therax wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:43 pm
What would people like to see in the near future for the mod?
An official guarantee that all the research/recipe chains are free of loopholes/deadlocks.
Smoothed balancing that guarantees that none of the things are ridiculously slow to produce (like oxygen was quite a while back).
Yea...the really boring requests i know. But the missing loaders pretty much broke my motivation on my latest attempt. I assume they're fixed now?
^^^
AND then if possible :
- compatibility with Flare Stack mod;
- compatibility with Vanilla Loaders HD mod (Miniloaders mod seems to work fine, so I guess this line isn't very important);
- making tech-type needs more consistient, e.g. Centrifuge needs Red, Green, Blue science, but it has Machine Construction 3 as a prerequisite, and that needs Red, Green, Blue and Purple science. It feels weird to have a 'simple' tech need an 'advanced' tech (vanilla Factorio never does this);
- making the various tech prerequisites more complete, e.g. Piercing Bullets (Military 2) needs brass, but the Military 2 tech doesn't have the Brass tech as a prerequisite. This isn't a big deal, but it'd certainly be nice.

Seriously though, any support you provide for this mod has been and would be amazing. +1

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Xander Mod v2.1.1

Post by Therax » Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:02 pm

eradicator wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:06 am
An official guarantee that all the research/recipe chains are free of loopholes/deadlocks.
Smoothed balancing that guarantees that none of the things are ridiculously slow to produce (like oxygen was quite a while back).
Yea...the really boring requests i know. But the missing loaders pretty much broke my motivation on my latest attempt. I assume they're fixed now?
I feel comfortable offering a guarantee of the first. I've written scripts to programmatically walk the recipe/item/assembler/tech tree and check that everything is possible to craft from the starting position.

Balancing the recipes is where I'd welcome more specific input. I noticed that O2 production was frustratingly slow in my own play-through, and increased it by 4x and might increase it more. Are there other specific recipes or production chains that have a similar problem, or the reverse, being too fast/cheap?

Miniloaders are fixed and have XM-specific recipes.
Monochrome wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:37 pm
AND then if possible :
- compatibility with Flare Stack mod;
- compatibility with Vanilla Loaders HD mod (Miniloaders mod seems to work fine, so I guess this line isn't very important);
- making tech-type needs more consistient, e.g. Centrifuge needs Red, Green, Blue science, but it has Machine Construction 3 as a prerequisite, and that needs Red, Green, Blue and Purple science. It feels weird to have a 'simple' tech need an 'advanced' tech (vanilla Factorio never does this);
- making the various tech prerequisites more complete, e.g. Piercing Bullets (Military 2) needs brass, but the Military 2 tech doesn't have the Brass tech as a prerequisite. This isn't a big deal, but it'd certainly be nice.

Seriously though, any support you provide for this mod has been and would be amazing. +1
Agreed on Flare Stack. I had a fix for Flare Stack recipes in my old hotfix mod. I'll incorporate those changes as well. Really, XM should have its own flare stack built-in - it's virtually required - but I don't have the Blender skills to make up a graphic from scratch.

I'll check on Vanilla Loaders HD and Loader Redux, but as the author I tend to use Miniloaders, especially since I've arranged for most of the weaknesses of Miniloaders to been resolved by engine changes in recent 0.17 experimentals. :D

I'm definitely intending to do a pass over what science packs are needed to avoid these sorts of inversions. On the other hand, vanilla Factorio sometimes feels a little weird to me now that science packs have meaningful names. What do cliff explosives have to do with logistics, for example? But I digress.

As with vanilla Factorio, there's a balance to be struck between having all the prerequisites explicitly in the tech tree and making the tech tree unreadable with the number of interlocking lines. I think that having it more complete makes it easier to find what you need.
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Re: [MOD 0.16] Xander Mod v2.1.1

Post by eradicator » Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:48 am

Therax wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:02 pm
I feel comfortable offering a guarantee of the first. I've written scripts to programmatically walk the recipe/item/assembler/tech tree and check that everything is possible to craft from the starting position.
That is very reassuring. In my last attempt (~2 month ago) i instantly hit the "no loaders" wallblock, and while loaders technically aren't required i know from my first (and longest) attempt in 1.5.x that i don't want to even try without loaders. Also from a rough look at the tech tree it appeared at that time that cliffsplosives weren't possible either, but i can't update right now to confirm if that impression still holds.
Therax wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:02 pm
Balancing the recipes is where I'd welcome more specific input. I noticed that O2 production was frustratingly slow in my own play-through, and increased it by 4x and might increase it more.
I'm sorry i can't give you anything more specific on that. Mostly because Xanders requires so much time investment to even get to the starting line (electricity/robots). I guess i'm just not really in the target audience anymore D:.
Therax wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:02 pm
Miniloaders are fixed and have XM-specific recipes.
Great! I have to admit though *cough* that i always preferred the 1x2 sized "standard" loaders as they feel less like a direct replacement for inserters. Or maybe just because they're a different size in a world otherwise full of 1x1 and 3x3 :p.
Monochrome wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:37 pm
Seriously though, any support you provide for this mod has been and would be amazing. +1
+∞
Therax wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:02 pm
Agreed on Flare Stack. I had a fix for Flare Stack recipes in my old hotfix mod. I'll incorporate those changes as well. Really, XM should have its own flare stack built-in - it's virtually required - but I don't have the Blender skills to make up a graphic from scratch.
"Flare stack" does have an MIT license ;p. Personalyl i'd prefer a less immersion breaking solution than a glorified void-pipe. As far as i remember from 1.5.x @Repofme1 did include "waste management" recipes for most of the stuff, they were just way too slow and annoying to use :/.
Therax wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:02 pm
I've arranged for most of the weaknesses of Miniloaders to been resolved by engine changes
Oh? Can inserters grab faster than 60i/s now :D?
Therax wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:02 pm
Monochrome wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:37 pm
making the various tech prerequisites more complete, e.g. Piercing Bullets (Military 2) needs brass, but the Military 2 tech doesn't have the Brass tech as a prerequisite. This isn't a big deal, but it'd certainly be nice.
I'm definitely intending to do a pass over what science packs are needed to avoid these sorts of inversions.
I'm still kinda against this as it makes maintaining and reading the tech tree much more difficult (in case recipes change in the future) and also has a risk of blocking recipes for no reason. I.e. what if Military also unlocked a recipe that *doesn't* require brass? Imho the tech tree should *only* represent the *tech* requirements and not the *recipe ingredient* requirements... But vanilla has also made a move towards the latter which give new players wrong expectations imho. The tech tree in vanilla has never been a complete representation of recipe requirements... but "bug" reports about it never stop.
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Re: [MOD 0.16] Xander Mod v2.1.1

Post by Irsmert » Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:11 pm

One thing I would like to see for Xanders which incidentally put a pause to my playthrough was the lack of complexity/progression of available power options. See Pymods for reference... Lots of new methods to burn coal and other subsidiary products to keep up with the power requirements. Even Bob's has different marks of steam generators, I think it would add a lot - perhaps built in integration with Amator's power mods would be sufficient?

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Xander Mod v2.1.1

Post by Therax » Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:10 pm

eradicator wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:48 am
That is very reassuring. In my last attempt (~2 month ago) i instantly hit the "no loaders" wallblock, and while loaders technically aren't required i know from my first (and longest) attempt in 1.5.x that i don't want to even try without loaders. Also from a rough look at the tech tree it appeared at that time that cliffsplosives weren't possible either, but i can't update right now to confirm if that impression still holds.
Last I checked cliff explosives are both researchable and craftable with red/green science.
eradicator wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:48 am
I'm sorry i can't give you anything more specific on that. Mostly because Xanders requires so much time investment to even get to the starting line (electricity/robots). I guess i'm just not really in the target audience anymore D:.
I absolutely agree that the early game grind with XM is tedious. My thought is to incorporate an (optional) quick start. Now that axes are gone, the starting titanium forgings are simply useless, but I like the idea of the player starting with some minimal amount of high technology items from their crashed spacecraft. So the player would start with a self-powered placeable roboport and a stack of "salvaged construction drones."
eradicator wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:48 am
I have to admit though *cough* that i always preferred the 1x2 sized "standard" loaders as they feel less like a direct replacement for inserters. Or maybe just because they're a different size in a world otherwise full of 1x1 and 3x3 :p.
I feel like inserters still have a definite place since you don't usually want to force a belt of material into a single machine. One possibility I've considered to address the problem of throughput of some early recipes is to make an earlier, more expensive recipe for fast inserters. But I think it's more consistent to use loaders to e.g. dump coke out of a blast furnace.

I will also look into fixing recipes for Loaders Redux and/or Vanilla Loaders HD.
eradicator wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:48 am
"Flare stack" does have an MIT license ;p. Personalyl i'd prefer a less immersion breaking solution than a glorified void-pipe. As far as i remember from 1.5.x @Repofme1 did include "waste management" recipes for most of the stuff, they were just way too slow and annoying to use :/.
It would still be a void-pipe, but limited to gases and probably highly polluting. Historically things like HCl emissions from the LeBlanc process were significant contributors to poor air quality in Britain, for example. The hard part is figuring out a cost to pollution, because currently there's no reason to not emit everything.

Most liquid wastes are recyclable and it's quite possible to run them as closed cycle processes producing small amounts of solid wastes from the water reclamation recipes. The recipe speeds may need tweaking, but in my playtime it hasn't felt particularly burdensome.

I have greatly simplified solid waste management by changing research requirements and using true void recipes for most items. Usually a line of ore processors handling a yellow belt of ore outputs a quantity of solid waste easily handled by a single machine.
eradicator wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:48 am
Oh? Can inserters grab faster than 60i/s now :D?
Yes they can!
eradicator wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:48 am
Therax wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:02 pm
I'm definitely intending to do a pass over what science packs are needed to avoid these sorts of inversions.
I'm still kinda against this as it makes maintaining and reading the tech tree much more difficult (in case recipes change in the future) and also has a risk of blocking recipes for no reason. I.e. what if Military also unlocked a recipe that *doesn't* require brass? Imho the tech tree should *only* represent the *tech* requirements and not the *recipe ingredient* requirements... But vanilla has also made a move towards the latter which give new players wrong expectations imho. The tech tree in vanilla has never been a complete representation of recipe requirements... but "bug" reports about it never stop.
To be clear, the "inversions" I'm referring to are (for example) a tech requiring R/G science having a dependency on a tech requiring R/G/B science.

I would not introduce a dependency on a tech if it's possible to craft some of the tech's recipe without the dependency. That situation might be a case where the tech should be split into two to better capture the dependency relationship, or simply left as is and it's up the player to figure out how to acquire the required ingredients through FNEI or similar.
Irsmert wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:11 pm
One thing I would like to see for Xanders which incidentally put a pause to my playthrough was the lack of complexity/progression of available power options. See Pymods for reference... Lots of new methods to burn coal and other subsidiary products to keep up with the power requirements. Even Bob's has different marks of steam generators, I think it would add a lot - perhaps built in integration with Amator's power mods would be sufficient?
I would like to see this as well. Having giant fields of reciprocating steam generators is silly. The first upgrade isn't until purple science, which is far too long to wait. I'd like to introduce a primitive steam turbine at red/green science that runs only on prepared and treated feedwater, with a closed loop including re-condensation of the low-pressure steam.
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Re: [MOD 0.16] Xander Mod v2.1.1

Post by Monochrome » Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:38 pm

eradicator wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:48 am
I.e. what if Military also unlocked a recipe that *doesn't* require brass? Imho the tech tree should *only* represent the *tech* requirements and not the *recipe ingredient* requirements...
Fair point. I agree, it's not a big issue.

One thing that would hopefully be easy to change would be allowing 'chemical fuel' (coke, solid fuel, etc.) to be used wherever 'crude fuel' can be used. I keep forgetting that trains can't take solid fuel, and it winds me up every time!

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Xander Mod v2.1.1

Post by eradicator » Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:42 am

Monochrome wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:38 pm
One thing that would hopefully be easy to change would be allowing 'chemical fuel' (coke, solid fuel, etc.) to be used wherever 'crude fuel' can be used.
Not without making it work the other way around too. Which would break gating i think.
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Re: [MOD 0.16] Xander Mod v2.1.1

Post by Therax » Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:38 pm

Monochrome wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:38 pm
One thing that would hopefully be easy to change would be allowing 'chemical fuel' (coke, solid fuel, etc.) to be used wherever 'crude fuel' can be used. I keep forgetting that trains can't take solid fuel, and it winds me up every time!
In fact, I thought I'd already made that change to everything that takes crude fuel, but apparently I missed the locomotive. I'll get that fixed!
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Re: [MOD 0.16] Xander Mod v2.1.1

Post by eradicator » Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:51 pm

Therax wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:38 pm
Monochrome wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:38 pm
One thing that would hopefully be easy to change would be allowing 'chemical fuel' (coke, solid fuel, etc.) to be used wherever 'crude fuel' can be used. I keep forgetting that trains can't take solid fuel, and it winds me up every time!
In fact, I thought I'd already made that change to everything that takes crude fuel, but apparently I missed the locomotive. I'll get that fixed!
I'm confused. Can things have more than one fuel category?
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Re: [MOD 0.16] Xander Mod v2.1.1

Post by Therax » Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:50 pm

eradicator wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:51 pm
I'm confused. Can things have more than one fuel category?
viewtopic.php?f=65&t=54971 ;)
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Re: [MOD 0.16] Xander Mod v2.1.1

Post by eradicator » Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:59 pm

Therax wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:50 pm
eradicator wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:51 pm
I'm confused. Can things have more than one fuel category?
viewtopic.php?f=65&t=54971 ;)
Hrng. And it's not even new. I am ashamed. Nice to know that it's been "order made" for Xander though :p.
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Re: [MOD 0.16] Xander Mod v2.1.1

Post by aragnir » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:38 am

we lost mineral water in new version, will it back or need some recipes change?
loaders redux have support, but recipe for basic loader is absent.

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Xander Mod v2.1.1

Post by GeekinaCave » Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:03 am

Hi, does anybody know if the patch for Alien Biomes is included in Therax fork? i tried to play with both and...

XanderAlienBiomes.png
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