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Re: [MOD 0.16 / 0.17] Loader Redux 1.4.9

Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:40 pm
by dreemkitten
i updated to 1.4.9 today, loaders aren't loading INTO anything, tho i only checked your warehouses, and a brass chest. dropped down to 1.4.8, and things work correctly again. not sure what happened, or if it is for everyone, but i have the issue, Im using .17.24

Re: [MOD 0.16 / 0.17] Loader Redux 1.4.9

Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:29 am
by nezrel
dreemkitten wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:40 pm
i updated to 1.4.9 today, loaders aren't loading INTO anything, tho i only checked your warehouses, and a brass chest. dropped down to 1.4.8, and things work correctly again. not sure what happened, or if it is for everyone, but i have the issue, Im using .17.24
Had same problem using .17.24. Updating factorio to most recent version (.17.31) fixed the issue.

Re: [MOD 0.16 / 0.17] Loader Redux 1.4.9

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:47 am
by ApocNL
nezrel wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:29 am
dreemkitten wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:40 pm
i updated to 1.4.9 today, loaders aren't loading INTO anything, tho i only checked your warehouses, and a brass chest. dropped down to 1.4.8, and things work correctly again. not sure what happened, or if it is for everyone, but i have the issue, Im using .17.24
Had same problem using .17.24. Updating factorio to most recent version (.17.31) fixed the issue.
I have the same problem.
Updated too latest factorio and mod version. Still not loading into stuff...

Re: [MOD 0.16 / 0.17] Loader Redux 1.4.9

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:21 am
by aklesey1
https://yadi.sk/i/LP66g23-fSX7PA
Conflict with Deadlock compact loaders :( mod
I get this error only deadlock compact loader and loaders redux are active
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/LoaderRedux - version 1.4.9
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/deadlock- ... es-loaders version 2.1.10

All 2 tyoes of loaders don't need electricity
Loaders from Redux mod i need for loading and unloading trains - and compact loaders is very convenient for another goals for my factory
Just want to use them together - or its not compatible for now?
What means this error?

Re: [MOD 0.16 / 0.17] Loader Redux 1.4.9

Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:32 pm
by aklesey1
I reinstalled https://mods.factorio.com/mod/deadlock- ... es-loaders this mod again and error not appears in 0.17.32 version now

Re: [MOD 0.16 / 0.17] Loader Redux 1.4.9

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 2:15 pm
by KarianZ
Hey there,
latest versions of Seablock and Factorio dont seem to adjust loader speed to belt speed :)
so yellow belt and yellow loader are missmatched etc.
Loaders are too fast so its not really a concern though.

Re: [MOD 0.16 / 0.17] Loader Redux 1.4.9

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 4:13 pm
by DudebroPyro
I'm a bit confused on the performance between this mod and miniloaders. The latter bills itself as being very UPS-friendly in multiple places, but to my understanding uses two inserter entities internally, while your mod only uses a single (loader) entity.
Is my understanding correct that Loader Redux is more performant everywhere except for cargo wagons, while miniloaders can handle cargo wagons as well as anything else but are less performant everywhere else (anywhere the vanilla loaders work)?

Re: [MOD 0.16 / 0.17] Loader Redux 1.4.9

Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 6:21 am
by Optera
DudebroPyro wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 4:13 pm
I'm a bit confused on the performance between this mod and miniloaders. The latter bills itself as being very UPS-friendly in multiple places, but to my understanding uses two inserter entities internally, while your mod only uses a single (loader) entity.
Is my understanding correct that Loader Redux is more performant everywhere except for cargo wagons, while miniloaders can handle cargo wagons as well as anything else but are less performant everywhere else (anywhere the vanilla loaders work)?
Inserter-belt interaction is highly optimized as that's the normal interaction in base factorio.
The loader entity type is not used in base factorio so isn't this optimized.

On wagon - belt there is no question about miniloader having magnitudes better performance.
On chest - belt interaction the slow speed miniloader seem better. For belt speeds higher than 60 items/second Miniloader has to use a loader entity alongside its 2 hidden inserters, negating any performance advantage over pure loaders.

Re: [MOD 0.16 / 0.17] Loader Redux 1.4.9

Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 7:11 am
by eradicator
Optera wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 6:21 am
On wagon - belt there is no question about miniloader having magnitudes better performance.
On chest - belt interaction the slow speed miniloader seem better. For belt speeds higher than 60 items/second Miniloader has to use a loader entity alongside its 2 hidden inserters, negating any performance advantage over pure loaders.
If the description is correct:
Miniloader Mod Portal Page wrote: Factorio core engine limitations restrict inserters pulling from belts to
60 items/second, or 4.5x yellow belt speed. Further, loader entities are
restricted to 120 items/second.
Then above 120/second miniloaders win again, because single loaders can't do it at all :).

Also if you're really worried about 60/s+ you could try to talk to Therax (the author of miniloaders) and if you're lucky he'll remove the additional inserters not needed for non-train 60~120/s transfer.

Re: [MOD 0.16 / 0.17] Loader Redux 1.4.9

Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 11:06 pm
by DudebroPyro
Optera wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 6:21 am
Inserter-belt interaction is highly optimized as that's the normal interaction in base factorio.
The loader entity type is not used in base factorio so isn't this optimized.
This makes sense, thanks!
eradicator wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 7:11 am
Also if you're really worried about 60/s+ you could try to talk to Therax (the author of miniloaders) and if you're lucky he'll remove the additional inserters not needed for non-train 60~120/s transfer.
I thought the main reason to have two inserters would be to balance across both lanes (or rather, to be able to fill them both in the first place, balancing being just a nice bonus).
Either way, I'm not terribly concerned with performance yet, I was mostly curious. I imagine if you're gonna be building multiple k spm bases, anything other than pure vanilla inserters are a bad idea anyway.

Re: [MOD 0.16 / 0.17] Loader Redux 1.4.9

Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 5:27 am
by Optera
DudebroPyro wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 11:06 pm
Either way, I'm not terribly concerned with performance yet, I was mostly curious. I imagine if you're gonna be building multiple k spm bases, anything other than pure vanilla inserters are a bad idea anyway.
Depends, I'm using loaders alongside miniloaders in my 2kspm base.

Going really deep into internal workings of Factorio, Miniloaders have some quirks inhereted from the hidden inserters making them unsuitable to some extremly niche situations:
  • Getting inserters into sleep mode before powering down is very tricky
    • Inserters never sleep when holding items
    • Normal Inserters wake up when items pass by on a belt and never go to sleep again
      Filter inserters will sleep properly if in whitelist mode without active filter signal. I never tested how they behave with the new blacklist mode.
  • they add ever so slightly add to electrical network update
    potential for microstutter when turning large numbers of them on and off rapidly, e.g. faulty flip-flop
  • one miniloader adds 3 entities to entity count
    Pure speculation here, but adding 3 entities to entity update, no matter how optimised, might at one point become worse than updating one.
  • sometimes they fail to balance between lanes as nice as loaders
As with all things, know the limitations of a tool and use the tool optimized for one specific job for optimal results.
The worst thing i've seen players do is wagon - loader - loader - warehouse - loader - belt, also loaders between warehouses to balance.
When instead they could use wagon - stack inserter - wide chest - loader - belt. Inherently balanced between up to 6 wagons with minimal entity count playing to each entities strengths.

Re: [MOD 0.16 / 0.17] Loader Redux 1.4.9

Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 9:52 am
by eradicator
Optera wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 5:27 am
As with all things, know the limitations of a tool and use the tool optimized for one specific job for optimal results.
The worst thing i've seen players do is wagon - loader - loader - warehouse - loader - belt, also loaders between warehouses to balance.
When instead they could use wagon - stack inserter - wide chest - loader - belt. Inherently balanced between up to 6 wagons with minimal entity count playing to each entities strengths.
A 6-wagon-wide chest, i.e. a chest with "a large amount of slots" will then again cause slowdown due to the "inserters iterate all the slots all the time" problem though. Aka: The more slots a chest has, the more performance it costs for *each* inserter to access it.

Re: [MOD 0.16 / 0.17] Loader Redux 1.4.9

Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 6:24 am
by boran_blok
personally I use wagon -> filtered loader -> loader -> wooden chest -> belt

This is a minimal buffer, but I don't know the slot iteration cost vs loaders cost.

Re: [MOD 0.16 / 0.17] Loader Redux 1.4.9

Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 10:27 am
by Optera
eradicator wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 9:52 am
A 6-wagon-wide chest, i.e. a chest with "a large amount of slots" will then again cause slowdown due to the "inserters iterate all the slots all the time" problem though. Aka: The more slots a chest has, the more performance it costs for *each* inserter to access it.
boran_blok wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 6:24 am
personally I use wagon -> filtered loader -> loader -> wooden chest -> belt

This is a minimal buffer, but I don't know the slot iteration cost vs loaders cost.
One 1k slot wide chest with 4 loaders to 4 compressed belts is magnitudes better for performance than using 36 individual chests with 36 loaders and merging splitters.

Maybe having 6 warehouses limited to 200 slots each vs one 1k slot wide chest would be closer but I somewhat doubt the slot iteration takes more than the additional loaders and splitters.
If you do those tests please add a link to the results.