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[MOD 0.15.13+] Smaller Fluid Wagon & Barrel 0.0.4

Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 7:07 pm
by Mooncat
Type: Mod
Name: Smaller Fluid Wagon & Barrel
Description: Reduces the capacity of vanilla fluid wagon and barrel. Also reduces barrel's stack count. Some additional adjustments like weight, crafting materials and crafting time reduction for fluid wagon. The barrel change also works on modded fluids.
License: GNU LGPLv3
Version: 0.0.4
Release: 2017-05-25
Tested-With-Factorio-Version: 0.15.13
Category: (Balancing)
Tags: fluid wagon, barrel, capacity
Download-Url: https://mods.factorio.com/mods/Mooncat/ ... and-barrel
Website: viewtopic.php?f=97&t=47859
License
Long description
Version history

Re: [MOD 0.15+] Smaller Fluid Wagon & Barrel

Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 7:45 pm
by Optera
Probably the only feasible way as the wonky fluid mechanics don't like increasing pipe throughput by 10 times or more. :)

I would make Barrels hold 120 liters and stack to 5 to have nicer numbers.
That makes 600 fluid/stack and 24k/cargo wagon.

Re: [MOD 0.15+] Smaller Fluid Wagon & Barrel

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 2:05 am
by Mooncat
Optera wrote:Probably the only feasible way as the wonky fluid mechanics don't like increasing pipe throughput by 10 times or more. :)

I would make Barrels hold 120 liters and stack to 5 to have nicer numbers.
That makes 600 fluid/stack and 24k/cargo wagon.
So it is fine to further decrease the capacity of barrels?
Would stack size = 3 and capacity = 200 be a better combination? I guess this will still make robot useful for transporting barrels for short distance.
Just wonder whether it is fine to have only 24k capacity in cargo wagon while fluid wagon can hold 30k.

Re: [MOD 0.15+] Smaller Fluid Wagon & Barrel

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 2:09 am
by Nexela
Mooncat wrote:Just wonder whether it is fine to have only 24k capacity in cargo wagon while fluid wagon can hold 30k.
Tossing up the realism argument one could say the extra space needed for barrels means a wagon holds less :)

Re: [MOD 0.15+] Smaller Fluid Wagon & Barrel

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 4:57 am
by Optera
Mooncat wrote:
Optera wrote:Probably the only feasible way as the wonky fluid mechanics don't like increasing pipe throughput by 10 times or more. :)

I would make Barrels hold 120 liters and stack to 5 to have nicer numbers.
That makes 600 fluid/stack and 24k/cargo wagon.
So it is fine to further decrease the capacity of barrels?
Would stack size = 3 and capacity = 200 be a better combination? I guess this will still make robot useful for transporting barrels for short distance.
Just wonder whether it is fine to have only 24k capacity in cargo wagon while fluid wagon can hold 30k.
Barrels on belts provides way higher throughput than pipes. A yellow belt has 3 times the throughput of one pipe according to this post.
The only way to combat that is drastically reducing how much fluid is inside each barrel.

Re: [MOD 0.15+] Smaller Fluid Wagon & Barrel

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 10:30 am
by Choumiko
Mooncat wrote:So it is fine to further decrease the capacity of barrels?
Would stack size = 3 and capacity = 200 be a better combination? I guess this will still make robot useful for transporting barrels for short distance.
Just wonder whether it is fine to have only 24k capacity in cargo wagon while fluid wagon can hold 30k.
For some reason i dislike stacksize 3, how about 5 and 120/barrel?

In my opinion a cargo wagon must have a significantly lower fluid capacity than a fluid wagon,

Re: [MOD 0.15+] Smaller Fluid Wagon & Barrel 0.0.2

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 5:10 pm
by Mooncat
OK. Done!
Released v0.0.2 with even smaller barrels but increased its stack size to 5. :)
Changelog
Thought this can be done within a minute since it is just some changes on the numbers.
Opened Factorio to test.
CM was broken again.
Used another hour to fix it.
Image

Re: [MOD 0.15+] Smaller Fluid Wagon & Barrel 0.0.2

Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 12:20 pm
by leoch
I like this rebalance, thanks!

Perhaps another thing worth thinking about is pumping speed? Not sure if it's worth changing, but the speed at which a fluid wagon can be emptied is insane.

Re: [MOD 0.15+] Smaller Fluid Wagon & Barrel 0.0.2

Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 7:45 am
by Mooncat
leoch wrote:I like this rebalance, thanks!

Perhaps another thing worth thinking about is pumping speed? Not sure if it's worth changing, but the speed at which a fluid wagon can be emptied is insane.
I have tried lowering the pumping speed, but it doesn't help much unless the speed is ridiculously low.
The original speed is 200 (12000/s), I lowered it to 50 (3000/s) but the loading time is still very similar. The optimized setup (3 pumps connected to 3 separated pipes with 3 different sources) was only slowed down by 0.5 seconds. For the setup that the pumps are connected to the same pipe, the loading time was the same. So it indicates that the bottleneck is on the pipes, not the pumps.
But I won't change the pipes because that will affect many things.

I also tried lowering it to 30 (1800/s), the optimized setup takes 3 more seconds to load. But then it is the same as the not optimized setup, i.e. no room for improvement.
Also, this may also affect the pumping speed on pipes.

One thing to note: although fluid loading and unloading is fast, item loading and unloading can be even faster if you use buffer chests and fully upgraded stack inserters.

Anyway, I will release an update with an option to lower the pumping speed. It will be disabled by default.


Edit: released v0.0.3
Changelog

Re: [MOD 0.15+] Smaller Fluid Wagon & Barrel 0.0.3

Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 10:01 am
by Optera
I did some testing of Belt vs Pipe myself.
(assemblers run at 1000% speed though so it might not be that easily achievable without cheat modules)

Barrel capacity 100:
Yellow belts can't keep up with pipe with pumps at both ends.
yellow belt
yellow belt
2017-05-22-11-17-51-9149113.jpg (133.2 KiB) Viewed 4226 times
Red Belts have noticeably more throughput than the pipe constantly draining the right tank.
red belt
red belt
2017-05-22-11-16-43-4119931.jpg (132.84 KiB) Viewed 4226 times
To get red belt down to this test setups short pipe piece I had to lower barrel capacity down to 60.

A capacity of 40 would put the pipe at the throughput of blue belts. I didn't test this since even two 13.75x speed assemblers can't keep up with that.

Re: [MOD 0.15.13+] Smaller Fluid Wagon & Barrel 0.0.4

Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 3:26 pm
by Mooncat
Version 0.0.4 has been released.
Changelog
Thanks to Optera for the additional mod settings. Also decreased the barrel capacity to 100.
I think it is the minimum value or otherwise barrels will be really useless.
(And thanks for finding out the shortcoming. :P )