[0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.17

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jodokus31
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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by jodokus31 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:36 pm

kinnom wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:03 pm
Why does science pack 3 require so much gold?
ScienceCostTweaker increases the difficulty and the amount of stuff needed.
Especially gold is a hurdle in that phase, where you start blue science, because you don't have the pure sorting recipe from crystals. I would recommend to prioritize this research. You also need those 3 different acids to create the crystals.
Until that, you have rubyte chunks, which create an awful lot of lead ore, which will be consumed eventually.

But dont worry, it'll get more insane ;)

EDIT: Seablock is not only about complexity like a normal B&A run, but also about mass production and throughput like vanilla

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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by Tony3D » Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:44 pm

I would work out how much time that I wanted to spend on a map and then implement settings to suit. I watched a few streamed portions of a Nilaus' base that had hundreds of hours and he was using long reach, nanobots and console commands to kill worms. It looked like speed setting was also increased for portions.
Somehow he was creating land at around the size of his city blocks. Not everyone has that time or desire to use some of those options. Also not suggesting that you duplicate his technique.

The science tweaker has two reduced settings as well as more difficult ones but I haven't tried it yet.

There is a benefit in previewing the generated map if you are using the Angel's bio module and want those tree seeders. They show up as blue dots and if not there at the beginning there is not much that you can do about it later. Sorry forgot that there is a console command /c game.player.insert{name="temperate-tree", count=10}

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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by kinnom » Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:46 pm

jodokus31 wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:36 pm
kinnom wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:03 pm
Why does science pack 3 require so much gold?
ScienceCostTweaker increases the difficulty and the amount of stuff needed.
Especially gold is a hurdle in that phase, where you start blue science, because you don't have the pure sorting recipe from crystals. I would recommend to prioritize this research. You also need those 3 different acids to create the crystals.
Until that, you have rubyte chunks, which create an awful lot of lead ore, which will be consumed eventually.

But dont worry, it'll get more insane ;)

EDIT: Seablock is not only about complexity like a normal B&A run, but also about mass production and throughput like vanilla
When you are intended to only make a batch of under 2000 gold ore by sorting chunks, you won't make any large or permanent infrastructure for it. Might as well have the other ways be green science.
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jodokus31
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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by jodokus31 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:15 pm

kinnom wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:46 pm
When you are intended to only make a batch of under 2000 gold ore by sorting chunks, you won't make any large or permanent infrastructure for it. Might as well have the other ways be green science.
Thats indeed a bit of a struggle. You build many things just to rip it down later, because you researched a better recipe or just you stay on the bad recipe because its too much effort.
Tony3D wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:44 pm
The science tweaker has two reduced settings as well as more difficult ones but I haven't tried it yet.
I dont think, that reducing science cost would reduce much of this struggle.
In my experience, I build longer on the chains for different items, and science is most of the time idle.

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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by minno » Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:01 pm

Pure sorting of lead and tin also takes green science that requires those metals, so it's at least consistent. I think the best way to go about it is to make a temporary production line making enough lead/tin/gold to make the green/blue science you need to make a better, longer-lived production line.

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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by Tony3D » Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:30 am

Tony3D wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:44 pm
The science tweaker has two reduced settings as well as more difficult ones but I haven't tried it yet.
I dont think, that reducing science cost would reduce much of this struggle.
In my experience, I build longer on the chains for different items, and science is most of the time idle.
[/quote]
I imagine that it will reduce effort around providing large quantities of things like rubber, resin and plastic

That is one strategy. I try and make layouts that do not have that ability to stall - no byproduct chests that halt everything when full, voiding excess etc. Try to make layouts that can be duplicated to increase production. Except the gold above and chrome I accept the small catalyst overhead but prefer to have more of ore ready rather than hoping mixed recipes will provide.

There huge volumes of science are needed at the later stages. A small science layout could make a large contribution if left running with a silo to stockpile packs

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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by kinnom » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:59 am

minno wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:01 pm
Pure sorting of lead and tin also takes green science that requires those metals, so it's at least consistent. I think the best way to go about it is to make a temporary production line making enough lead/tin/gold to make the green/blue science you need to make a better, longer-lived production line.
I consider green science still early game, where everything still is temporary. Blue science is when you should have quite a bit of permanent (or at least long-time) infrastructure and production.
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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by NeuralParity » Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:15 pm

Tony3D wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:44 pm
Somehow he was creating land at around the size of his city blocks.
Long reach + spamming increase landfill size until your brush size is half the screen fill in the water very quickly.



One balance annoyance that I've found is that once you get Mk2 sniper turrets, you can out-range all worms. Clearing them from this point onwards is just tedious because there's no risk left. At this point I console spawned some artillery to make it a bit faster but I really should have just console killed everything as soon as I'd researched mk2 sniper turrets.

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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by Tony3D » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:56 pm

NeuralParity wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:15 pm
Tony3D wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:44 pm
Somehow he was creating land at around the size of his city blocks.
Long reach + spamming increase landfill size until your brush size is half the screen fill in the water very quickly.



One balance annoyance that I've found is that once you get Mk2 sniper turrets, you can out-range all worms. Clearing them from this point onwards is just tedious because there's no risk left. At this point I console spawned some artillery to make it a bit faster but I really should have just console killed everything as soon as I'd researched mk2 sniper turrets.
Some of the far reach mods used to be able to throw grenades, dig holes under worms or allow landfill to be placed safely so that you could do vehicle speed passes. It is an option I guess but a little overpowered. In keeping with the automation theme another way could be to bolster those attack bots so they can take on the worms at a cost a little more expensive than alternatives. Some should still be destroyed during fights. I have not tried them recently but they used to only be effective on biters that do not spawn on seablock maps. The artefacts collected don't need to be manufactured later

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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by jodokus31 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:11 pm

NeuralParity wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:15 pm
One balance annoyance that I've found is that once you get Mk2 sniper turrets, you can out-range all worms. Clearing them from this point onwards is just tedious because there's no risk left. At this point I console spawned some artillery to make it a bit faster but I really should have just console killed everything as soon as I'd researched mk2 sniper turrets.
You should try the tank ;) and wait for artillery. This is at least more fun than console

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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by Anhalter » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:01 pm

Sorry if this has been asked before, but search did not turn up anything useful:

I currently have 4 types of energy: Steam Engines, Wind Turbines, Solar Panels and Accumulators. From what i was used from vanilla, if night comes, the accumulators turn on, once empty, the steam engines turn on. Now i have the thing, that in night, the steam engines start running without any drain on the accumulators. It's like they are not connected to the network (but they i are, i checked).

Is this some kind of bug or am i stupidly overlooking something?

Thanks!

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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by jodokus31 » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:20 pm

I'm not sure, if its a bug or any different from vanilla

Usually I handle it like this:
- Place one accumulator near an offshorepump, which feeds the steamengines
- Connect it to the offshorepump with a wire.
- The accu has a signal A from 0-100. (100 is fully loaded, 0 is empty)
- Enable pump, if A < 20 or similar.

Since all accus are used up simultaneaously during night, one accu represents the state of all (if everything is one network, of course)

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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by mexmer » Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:14 pm

Anhalter wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:01 pm
Sorry if this has been asked before, but search did not turn up anything useful:

I currently have 4 types of energy: Steam Engines, Wind Turbines, Solar Panels and Accumulators. From what i was used from vanilla, if night comes, the accumulators turn on, once empty, the steam engines turn on. Now i have the thing, that in night, the steam engines start running without any drain on the accumulators. It's like they are not connected to the network (but they i are, i checked).

Is this some kind of bug or am i stupidly overlooking something?

Thanks!
unless you have some special mod in play, either your accumulators are not connected to network, or output of your accumulators is too low, that steam engine needs to intervene. still i will suggest using sr latch for connecting steam engines, or what jodokus does.

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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by Psyramics » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:06 pm

Anhalter wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:01 pm
Now i have the thing, that in night, the steam engines start running without any drain on the accumulators.
This is standard behavior. It happens like this in Vanilla too. The power sources drawn from are prioritized, from solar/wind > steam > accumulators. If your steam power can completely cover your current requirements, the accumulators will never be used. They will actually charge from your steam power if they have any capacity left to fill and there's enough left over capacity your factory isn't using.

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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by Anhalter » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:38 am

Psyramics wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:06 pm
Anhalter wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:01 pm
Now i have the thing, that in night, the steam engines start running without any drain on the accumulators.
This is standard behavior. It happens like this in Vanilla too. The power sources drawn from are prioritized, from solar/wind > steam > accumulators. If your steam power can completely cover your current requirements, the accumulators will never be used. They will actually charge from your steam power if they have any capacity left to fill and there's enough left over capacity your factory isn't using.
i was thinking that in vanilla the priority was solar > accumulator > steam ?

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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by Psyramics » Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:26 pm

Anhalter wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:38 am
Psyramics wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:06 pm
Anhalter wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:01 pm
Now i have the thing, that in night, the steam engines start running without any drain on the accumulators.
This is standard behavior. It happens like this in Vanilla too. The power sources drawn from are prioritized, from solar/wind > steam > accumulators. If your steam power can completely cover your current requirements, the accumulators will never be used. They will actually charge from your steam power if they have any capacity left to fill and there's enough left over capacity your factory isn't using.
i was thinking that in vanilla the priority was solar > accumulator > steam ?
No, steam comes before accumulators. Otherwise we wouldn't be able to charge accumulators from steam. If accumulators took priority over steam, there wouldn't be so many crazy set ups to only engage steam when the accumulators ran dry.

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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by Anhalter » Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:57 pm

Psyramics wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:26 pm
Anhalter wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:38 am
Psyramics wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:06 pm
Anhalter wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:01 pm
Now i have the thing, that in night, the steam engines start running without any drain on the accumulators.
This is standard behavior. It happens like this in Vanilla too. The power sources drawn from are prioritized, from solar/wind > steam > accumulators. If your steam power can completely cover your current requirements, the accumulators will never be used. They will actually charge from your steam power if they have any capacity left to fill and there's enough left over capacity your factory isn't using.
i was thinking that in vanilla the priority was solar > accumulator > steam ?
No, steam comes before accumulators. Otherwise we wouldn't be able to charge accumulators from steam. If accumulators took priority over steam, there wouldn't be so many crazy set ups to only engage steam when the accumulators ran dry.
Well, then clearly the mistake was in my thinking. Thanks for the Info!

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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by roax206 » Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:47 pm

hewhoispale wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:54 pm
roax206 wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:57 pm
minno wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:59 pm
RemiFlan wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:05 am
I guess it is not exactly a Sea Block related question, but is there a way to automaticly destroy certain items similar to gas\liquid voids? Certain production lines (like chlorine from Electrolyser) have an additional item output, which can fill all your warehouses after a while.
You need large amounts of sodium hydroxide for aluminum production for red circuits and blue science (with SCT and circuit processing mods), which come up at about the same stage where chlorine production is necessary, so it should be easy to use it all up.
a better example is lime. While it has many uses mid to late game I ended up using the process in the early game to efficiently get carbon dioxide for power (as where is the fun in solar) but even though I barely do anything on a large scale I was constantly destroying and replacing warehouses. Before anyone mentions bricks I practically paved the entire land mass at the time and it didnt impact the lime production at all. Only after I changed to a different power production method (rocket boosters and now moving to syntesis gas solid fuel) that the rate of lime production dropped off.
If you just want CO2 without bulk volumes of solid by-products, that's what liquefying charcoal/wood pellets is for. You're using a by-product of process while ignoring the primary outputs.

Considering the amount of extra work it sounds like you've been doing managing the lime, it doesn't sound particularly more efficient.
the point was using steam as my main power source where lime is extremely more efficient (less than 500W/50 CO2 for lime vs 5000W/25 CO2 for charcoal) and with an external source of CO2 the efficiency of Carbon easily doubles.

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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by NeuralParity » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:50 am

roax206 wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:47 pm
the point was using steam as my main power source where lime is extremely more efficient (less than 500W/50 CO2 for lime vs 5000W/25 CO2 for charcoal) and with an external source of CO2 the efficiency of Carbon easily doubles.
You'll be pleased to know that there is now a way to dump lime. It a bit of a way down the tech tree but it does allow you to switch to entirely ceramic filtering as you get some useful byproducts (such as sulfuric waste water) out of it. It's a nice addition. IIRC, the latest angel's (not yet in the SeaBlock modpack) also has NaOH solution which gives us a voiding path for the two most common/annoying solid byproducts (Sodium Hydroxide and Lime).

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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by ukezi » Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:10 pm

nice would be a roman concrete recipe. Lime+sand+water->mortar. mortar+crushed stone->landfill/concrete?

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