[0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.17

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minno
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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by minno » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:59 pm

RemiFlan wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:05 am
I guess it is not exactly a Sea Block related question, but is there a way to automaticly destroy certain items similar to gas\liquid voids? Certain production lines (like chlorine from Electrolyser) have an additional item output, which can fill all your warehouses after a while.
You need large amounts of sodium hydroxide for aluminum production for red circuits and blue science (with SCT and circuit processing mods), which come up at about the same stage where chlorine production is necessary, so it should be easy to use it all up.

roax206
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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by roax206 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:57 pm

minno wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:59 pm
RemiFlan wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:05 am
I guess it is not exactly a Sea Block related question, but is there a way to automaticly destroy certain items similar to gas\liquid voids? Certain production lines (like chlorine from Electrolyser) have an additional item output, which can fill all your warehouses after a while.
You need large amounts of sodium hydroxide for aluminum production for red circuits and blue science (with SCT and circuit processing mods), which come up at about the same stage where chlorine production is necessary, so it should be easy to use it all up.
a better example is lime. While it has many uses mid to late game I ended up using the process in the early game to efficiently get carbon dioxide for power (as where is the fun in solar) but even though I barely do anything on a large scale I was constantly destroying and replacing warehouses. Before anyone mentions bricks I practically paved the entire land mass at the time and it didnt impact the lime production at all. Only after I changed to a different power production method (rocket boosters and now moving to syntesis gas solid fuel) that the rate of lime production dropped off.

hewhoispale
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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by hewhoispale » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:54 pm

roax206 wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:57 pm
minno wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:59 pm
RemiFlan wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:05 am
I guess it is not exactly a Sea Block related question, but is there a way to automaticly destroy certain items similar to gas\liquid voids? Certain production lines (like chlorine from Electrolyser) have an additional item output, which can fill all your warehouses after a while.
You need large amounts of sodium hydroxide for aluminum production for red circuits and blue science (with SCT and circuit processing mods), which come up at about the same stage where chlorine production is necessary, so it should be easy to use it all up.
a better example is lime. While it has many uses mid to late game I ended up using the process in the early game to efficiently get carbon dioxide for power (as where is the fun in solar) but even though I barely do anything on a large scale I was constantly destroying and replacing warehouses. Before anyone mentions bricks I practically paved the entire land mass at the time and it didnt impact the lime production at all. Only after I changed to a different power production method (rocket boosters and now moving to syntesis gas solid fuel) that the rate of lime production dropped off.
If you just want CO2 without bulk volumes of solid by-products, that's what liquefying charcoal/wood pellets is for. You're using a by-product of process while ignoring the primary outputs.

Considering the amount of extra work it sounds like you've been doing managing the lime, it doesn't sound particularly more efficient.

jodokus31
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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by jodokus31 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:58 pm

It is probably a viable option to get CO2 from lime at the beginning, because it may consume less power than green algae (not exactly sure).
Then, trees from aboretums should be better without solid by-products

Tony3D
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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by Tony3D » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:05 am

The lime can be consumed with porous lime filters which only required blue science.
The sodium hydroxide seems to be consumed and at times I found I needed to make extra.
Because of the difficulty to obtain the trees for tree seeders I would also have a look at the farms as an alternative. The Tianaton seed can make a surprising amount of cellulose. One row of washing plants, topped with two brown algae plant, small storage tank and overflow clarifier will support about 48 farms which is a lot of cellulose.
Last edited by Tony3D on Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Megatron
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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by Megatron » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:37 pm

Has anyone problems with compressed air generation or air scrubbing?
There should definitely be a MK3 and maybe even MK4 Air Filter. Those available are just horribly slow.

Tony3D
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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by Tony3D » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:39 pm

Megatron wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:37 pm
Has anyone problems with compressed air generation or air scrubbing?
There should definitely be a MK3 and maybe even MK4 Air Filter. Those available are just horribly slow.
They are slow. But modules help

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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by WladySpb » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:32 pm

Hi all! Sorry for my english)
I'm little confused with energy and fuel...
I build row of electrolisers, processed to cristalise ore from mineral solution, and energy from wind generators run out. Build new generators is variant, but wery slow, and i'm try to create fuel from green aglae. But row of seven aglae farms, and appropriate amount of assemblers required about 2.4 MW - all the electricity that comes from their charcoal, and even more. In fact, this massive farm products nothing) No fuel, no energy, no fibre. Only consumes mineral water)
If calculating, productivity in ideal - 2 charcoal/s, (10Mj), after burn in boiler Mk2 - (60%) - 6MW. But in real - its produced less :(

Then, question - how more effective generate electricity in early game? Only build more and more wind generators? Or focus on grow trees, and convert it to fuel? Or multiply this farm, and try to run it on max effectivity?

UPD: I fool) I place new boiler, and increase fuel consume and temperate steam, but can't upgrade steam generators, and half energy lose) Upgrading this momentally up electrisity produce to 3.6 Mw, and charcoal started to pile up)

jodokus31
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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by jodokus31 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:31 pm

Yes, indeed. Boiler mk2 doesn't help, if not upgrading to Steam Engine mk2, too. This is because, the Steam Engine mk1 cant handle to higher steam temp. and the rest is lost. The steel cost are very high, though.
While green algae gives only a little surplus, tree growing with arboretum is much more efficient, even the most simple recipe. You just need one desert tree. And it helps immensely to use mineral sludge instead of mineralized water crystallization, which will be needed for green circuits anyway (lead and tin) to build tree growing machines

minno
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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by minno » Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:41 am

WladySpb wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:32 pm
Then, question - how more effective generate electricity in early game? Only build more and more wind generators? Or focus on grow trees, and convert it to fuel? Or multiply this farm, and try to run it on max effectivity?
Focus on tree farming. It's a lot better for making fuel than green algae. You could also start making solar panels and using your fuel only at night.

Tony3D
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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by Tony3D » Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:46 am

minno wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:41 am
WladySpb wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:32 pm
Then, question - how more effective generate electricity in early game? Only build more and more wind generators? Or focus on grow trees, and convert it to fuel? Or multiply this farm, and try to run it on max effectivity?
Focus on tree farming. It's a lot better for making fuel than green algae. You could also start making solar panels and using your fuel only at night.
Tianaton seed is another alternative. I have been using for plastic and resin but it should be fine for power as well. It gets converted to cellulose. If you do not have circuits a priority splitter can help - divert priority to the seed making and excess to pellets
Last edited by Tony3D on Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by WladySpb » Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:06 am

Thanks for replies)
I configured massive on mineral sluge processing, and power drains out again :P Doubled green algae save me, but little.... Need MORE energy) Now, i try configure tree farm - two seeds i have, needs only create dirt and fertilizer production and then - soil)

jodokus31
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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by jodokus31 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:24 am

mineral sludge is only more efficient, because you can reduce electrolyzers, which are the main power sink, needed for the same amount of materials.
Same is for advanced smelting, especially steel smelting, which halfs the iron costs for steel.

For the simplest tree recipe, you need mud, compost and water, which are very easy. fertilizer can be skipped at first, because it requires urea gas, which needs ammonia

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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by NeuralParity » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:56 am

jodokus31 wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:24 am
mineral sludge is only more efficient, because you can reduce electrolyzers, which are the main power sink, needed for the same amount of materials.
Mineral sludge is less power efficient than your starting mineralised water crystallisation recipe. Yes, it uses fewer electrolyzers but all the other stuff combines to require more power than the simple recipe. It's so much less efficient that you should be using mineralised water crystallisation even if you only need saphirite (in my marathon game, I just stockpiled the excess stiratite until I got blast furnaces). You only need to set up mineral sludge processing for making lead and tin.

Mineral sludge is only more power efficient when you're using washing plants and even then it's more power efficient to ignore the crystal dust and just use the mineralised water (you do unfortunately quickly end up with a massive stockpile of dust that you can't really use.

Edit: With no way to void items included in the mod-pack, I ended up going with washing mineral sludge, and using the excess mineralised water as a higher priority source of saphirite and stiratite.

minno
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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by minno » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:39 am

When I set the production lines up in Helmod it tells me that slag slurry coal filtration followed by crystallization uses 2.4 MW for 1 saphirite/s, but mineralized water from crushed slag uses 6.4 MW. If I switch them to use the highest building tiers instead of the lowest it's still 1.8 MW vs. 4.1 MW. It's a good way to use your extra mineralized water or crushed stone, but not if you're using extra electrolyzers for it.

live22morrow
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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by live22morrow » Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:56 am

For mineral water vs slag to sludge: I did a simple test setup with minimal machines to test the raw energy to ore ratio.
Each setup was connected to their own 270 MJ accumulator array. I gave the sludge setup a few sulfur to start. Ran both until they stopped. All first tier buildings.

The mineral water setup on average will make 58 ore total for 4.66 MJ/ore.
The sludge setup made 94 saphirite for 2.87 MJ/ore.

The sludge setup also used about 10 charcoal. Even if you add the raw fuel value of the charcoal to the total, sludge still comes out ahead. The output of the mineral setup is random, but it ran for 34 cycles, so should produce around 58 ore on average.

On marathon mode however, mineral sludge crystallization is twice as expensive, giving only 47 saphirite at 5.74 MJ/ore (the mineral water setup still produces the same). This makes mineral water better for making saphirite and stiratite on marathon.

NeuralParity
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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by NeuralParity » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:26 pm

live22morrow wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:56 am
On marathon mode however, mineral sludge crystallization is twice as expensive, giving only 47 saphirite at 5.74 MJ/ore (the mineral water setup still produces the same). This makes mineral water better for making saphirite and stiratite on marathon.
Aah, that'll be why I'm seeing mineralised water as preferable.

jodokus31
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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by jodokus31 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:30 pm

live22morrow wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:56 am
On marathon mode however, mineral sludge crystallization is twice as expensive, giving only 47 saphirite at 5.74 MJ/ore (the mineral water setup still produces the same). This makes mineral water better for making saphirite and stiratite on marathon.
Ok, I didn't know that. Interesting...

kinnom
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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by kinnom » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:03 pm

Why does science pack 3 require so much gold?
no yes yes no yes no yes yes

Tony3D
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Re: [0.16] Sea Block Pack 0.2.16

Post by Tony3D » Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:15 pm

kinnom wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:03 pm
Why does science pack 3 require so much gold?
The default settings will provide you with a map that could take a few hundred hours to complete. If you plan to leave it running unattended something like auto research mod will help.

BEFORE generating a map there are a number of mod settings that will change quantities and could change the map difficulty. These options can not be altered from Factorio in game menus after the map is generated. You could possibly change settings with a text editor however that might break the map.

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