[WIP][0.12.22+] Subsurfaces 0.0.4 : build beneath your base

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jorgenRe
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Re: [WIP][0.12.22+] Subsurfaces 0.0.3 : build beneath your base

Post by jorgenRe »

Guest_4544 wrote:
StanFear wrote: I think I found a solution to that problem of being stuck underground : not make the ground borer work in both ways, but have an "escape pod" apear when the player destroys the elevator, I hope this solution will be enough for you !
Great. I hope this escape pod will also be craftable in the mean time till you found a better solution to this problem.
You can make an entity indestructible so it does not take any damage then set minable = false to stop it from being mined

Code: Select all

entity.destructible = true
entity.minable = false
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Noticed the told change in FFF #111 so il continue to use my signature ^_^
Thanks for listening to our suggestions, devs :D!
I would jump of joy if we could specify which tiles spawned in a surfaces

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Re: [WIP][0.12.22+] Subsurfaces 0.0.3 : build beneath your base

Post by StanFear »

jorgenRe wrote:
Guest_4544 wrote:
StanFear wrote: I think I found a solution to that problem of being stuck underground : not make the ground borer work in both ways, but have an "escape pod" apear when the player destroys the elevator, I hope this solution will be enough for you !
Great. I hope this escape pod will also be craftable in the mean time till you found a better solution to this problem.
You can make an entity indestructible so it does not take any damage then set minable = false to stop it from being mined

Code: Select all

entity.destructible = true
entity.minable = false
well yeah, but I want the player to be able to mine the entry shaft ! (... wait, wasn't I calling it an elevator ? I think shaft is better don't you ?)
although, setting only to bottom one to be indestructible probably can be done.

Or, since it takes a lot of time to dig and is basically a hole, I could decide that it is not possible to remove ... (or that it takes time and stone to remove, and can only be done from the topside)
kiba wrote:How to cheat with mining bore:

Place a belt directly in front of it, and you'll get a slight speed boost!
I'll have to try to prevent that then (MOUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!! hrm sorry what ?)

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Re: [WIP][0.12.22+] Subsurfaces 0.0.3 : build beneath your base

Post by kiba »

Without any kind of automation, I cheated by reducing the weight and increasing rotation speed.

It's a huge pain in the ass to sit there and wait for the machine to move itself. That's contrary to the spirit of factorio!

I might try my hand at writing code to make it 'automated', though I don't know how.

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Re: [WIP][0.12.22+] Subsurfaces 0.0.3 : build beneath your base

Post by StanFear »

kiba wrote:Without any kind of automation, I cheated by reducing the weight and increasing rotation speed.

It's a huge pain in the ass to sit there and wait for the machine to move itself. That's contrary to the spirit of factorio!

I might try my hand at writing code to make it 'automated', though I don't know how.
well, the mod is under MIT licence, so do as you please,

for the code about automating it though, I'm currently working on that ! (trying to mimick the deconstruction-plannerway of selecting areas)

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Re: [WIP][0.12.22+] Subsurfaces 0.0.3 : build beneath your base

Post by kiba »

StanFear wrote:
kiba wrote:Without any kind of automation, I cheated by reducing the weight and increasing rotation speed.

It's a huge pain in the ass to sit there and wait for the machine to move itself. That's contrary to the spirit of factorio!

I might try my hand at writing code to make it 'automated', though I don't know how.
well, the mod is under MIT licence, so do as you please,

for the code about automating it though, I'm currently working on that ! (trying to mimick the deconstruction-plannerway of selecting areas)
I thought it would be simpler to just have a tunnel borer go directly from one entrance to another. My use for the subsurface is to build an underground subway network.

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Re: [WIP][0.12.22+] Subsurfaces 0.0.3 : build beneath your base

Post by jorgenRe »

kiba wrote: I thought it would be simpler to just have a tunnel borer go directly from one entrance to another. My use for the subsurface is to build an underground subway network.
Realisticly speaking that is the realistic way for it to work, but imagine having to do it that way ^_^!
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Noticed the told change in FFF #111 so il continue to use my signature ^_^
Thanks for listening to our suggestions, devs :D!
I would jump of joy if we could specify which tiles spawned in a surfaces

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Re: [WIP][0.12.22+] Subsurfaces 0.0.3 : build beneath your base

Post by kiba »

jorgenRe wrote:
kiba wrote: I thought it would be simpler to just have a tunnel borer go directly from one entrance to another. My use for the subsurface is to build an underground subway network.
Realisticly speaking that is the realistic way for it to work, but imagine having to do it that way ^_^!
What wrong with it? Seems conceptually simple enough to code.

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Re: [WIP][0.12.22+] Subsurfaces 0.0.3 : build beneath your base

Post by mastercheif1017 »

it is amazing i love the subsurfaceception the mobile bore could be faster and set the recipes to false to be able to unlock them in research

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Re: [WIP][0.12.22+] Subsurfaces 0.0.3 : build beneath your base

Post by StanFear »

mastercheif1017 wrote:it is amazing i love the subsurfaceception the mobile bore could be faster and set the recipes to false to be able to unlock them in research
first, thank you !
and, well, I know, but I'm not at recepies and technologies yet, this is why the mod is a WIP mod
kiba wrote:
jorgenRe wrote:
kiba wrote: I thought it would be simpler to just have a tunnel borer go directly from one entrance to another. My use for the subsurface is to build an underground subway network.
Realisticly speaking that is the realistic way for it to work, but imagine having to do it that way ^_^!
What wrong with it? Seems conceptually simple enough to code.
ok, but if I did that, what should I do, dig straight to the other entrances ? dig straight and avoid making non grid aligned tunnels ? when should the borer start to dig ? from where ? to where ? etc.
I just don't want to have a GUI in the mod where the player must click to do an action, I want to stay close to the way the game works, this is why, by the way, I will make changes to the way moving from one surface to another works !

I also don't want to have to implement another pathfinding algorithm for that kind of work, it would just slow down the game !

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Re: [WIP][0.12.22+] Subsurfaces 0.0.3 : build beneath your base

Post by kiba »

StanFear wrote:
mastercheif1017 wrote:it is amazing i love the subsurfaceception the mobile bore could be faster and set the recipes to false to be able to unlock them in research
first, thank you !
and, well, I know, but I'm not at recepies and technologies yet, this is why the mod is a WIP mod
kiba wrote:
jorgenRe wrote:
kiba wrote: I thought it would be simpler to just have a tunnel borer go directly from one entrance to another. My use for the subsurface is to build an underground subway network.
Realisticly speaking that is the realistic way for it to work, but imagine having to do it that way ^_^!
What wrong with it? Seems conceptually simple enough to code.
ok, but if I did that, what should I do, dig straight to the other entrances ? dig straight and avoid making non grid aligned tunnels ? when should the borer start to dig ? from where ? to where ? etc.
I just don't want to have a GUI in the mod where the player must click to do an action, I want to stay close to the way the game works, this is why, by the way, I will make changes to the way moving from one surface to another works !

I also don't want to have to implement another pathfinding algorithm for that kind of work, it would just slow down the game !
There's a pathfinding algorithm involved?

The idea is simplest at its core. Just pick the nearest entrance, load it with coal, and damn the consequence. It keeps going until something horrible happens or it reaches the next entrance. There should be next to no GUI involved in this case.

Of course, it's a stupid machine. It might get run over by trains. It might not have enough fuel to make the journey.

But it will work well enough to meet my need. The fancy features can come later.

I have no idea what's going on inside your head regarding how new stuff be mined. Will construction bots be involved? If that's the case, I recommend explosive mining. Have construction bot set dynamites and charges.

How fast will the process work anyway?

If you aren't working on the tunnel digging machine as described by me, I might take a stab at it, but first, I want to see what gameplay feature you got in mind for this mod.

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Re: [WIP][0.12.22+] Subsurfaces 0.0.3 : build beneath your base

Post by StanFear »

kiba wrote: There's a pathfinding algorithm involved?

The idea is simplest at its core. Just pick the nearest entrance, load it with coal, and damn the consequence. It keeps going until something horrible happens or it reaches the next entrance. There should be next to no GUI involved in this case.

Of course, it's a stupid machine. It might get run over by trains. It might not have enough fuel to make the journey.

But it will work well enough to meet my need. The fancy features can come later.

I have no idea what's going on inside your head regarding how new stuff be mined. Will construction bots be involved? If that's the case, I recommend explosive mining. Have construction bot set dynamites and charges.

How fast will the process work anyway?

If you aren't working on the tunnel digging machine as described by me, I might take a stab at it, but first, I want to see what gameplay feature you got in mind for this mod.

going to the nearest, not necessaraly a good idea, what if you have two entrances linked at a position, and two at another ? how do you link both ?

As to how I imagine the autoation of digging, construction bots won't be involved, it will probably be quite fast.

I won't be implementing automation to the current mobile borer, so go ahead, code it, you also can automatically set the borer speed to 1 when placed, that way, it'll go on until it is missing fuel, and in the direction you set it !

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Re: [WIP][0.12.22+] Subsurfaces 0.0.3 : build beneath your base

Post by kiba »

So, how is mining supposed to work? Or is that spoiler?

If construction bots aren't involved, are we dealing with stationary driller?

Also, I don't mind slow mining. I just hate mining without any sort of automation.

Fast mining is not necessary, though it's very convenient indeed.

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Re: [WIP][0.12.22+] Subsurfaces 0.0.3 : build beneath your base

Post by StanFear »

kiba wrote:So, how is mining supposed to work? Or is that spoiler?
hum ... thats a good idea let's just say it is a surprise for now (I've got the idea in my head, but for now it is only theoraticle)

kiba wrote: If construction bots aren't involved, are we dealing with stationary driller?

Also, I don't mind slow mining. I just hate mining without any sort of automation.

Fast mining is not necessary, though it's very convenient indeed.
no stationary drillers, but .... there will be a building involved :)
and as always, it'll be automated, but you will have to give the orders still !

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Re: [WIP][0.12.22+] Subsurfaces 0.0.3 : build beneath your base

Post by Natha »

Hi,

this is a nice mod! Before I found it I was on the verge of doing a similar mod.

I have some suggestions (dont know exactly whether they are already proposed):
  • Underground ore generation (like on the earth's surface; with a config file to change the ores generated in subsurface (Bobs Ores mod compatibility)). Maybe it can be changed at which layer certain ores are generated?
  • Caves (like your planned collapsing) and canyons
  • Caves can contain water and/or lava
  • In some caves there can be underground enemies
  • What about natural subsurface entraces from the earth's surface (natural caves)? (like minecraft...:D)
A little bit self-promotion: :D
You can also add compatibility for my Oxygen-Mod. The new air vent feature is cool!

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Re: [WIP][0.12.22+] Subsurfaces 0.0.3 : build beneath your base

Post by kiba »

An idea: each subsequent layer of subsurface is harder to dig through.

Not actually realistic, I think, but it does poses a challenge to players and force them to economize and think a little bit more. After all, building underground spaces in RL is relatively rare to constructing buildings above ground.

Also, on ore generation, one could have different rate of rock formation as you went further down....

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Re: [WIP][0.12.22+] Subsurfaces 0.0.3 : build beneath your base

Post by StanFear »

Natha wrote:Hi,

this is a nice mod! Before I found it I was on the verge of doing a similar mod.

I have some suggestions (dont know exactly whether they are already proposed):
  • Underground ore generation (like on the earth's surface; with a config file to change the ores generated in subsurface (Bobs Ores mod compatibility)). Maybe it can be changed at which layer certain ores are generated?
  • Caves (like your planned collapsing) and canyons
  • Caves can contain water and/or lava
  • In some caves there can be underground enemies
  • What about natural subsurface entraces from the earth's surface (natural caves)? (like minecraft...:D)
A little bit self-promotion: :D
You can also add compatibility for my Oxygen-Mod. The new air vent feature is cool!
Thank you ! you're not the only one :) seems like it is a popular idea to use the underground !
as for your suggestions :
underground ore generations ... I already talked about that, change which layers ores can spawn on is not yet possible (unless using RSO, and I'm not even sure)
plus, because of the way I handle the subsurfaces, it is not possible, I might change stuff a little some day, but for now, it won't be possible.
If you really want underground ore generation, check "The Underground" that was specially developped for that purpose

Caves : Yes it is planned, but when I talked about collapsing, I meant having the surface ground collapse (have entities destroyed) if there is a too wide empty space in the subsurface
about containing fluids, water, Why not, lava ? I don't see my subsurfaces that deep

for the enemies, I plan to work with jorgenRe to make his mod more compatible with mine and have interaxtion, that way, if you want the enemies underground, you can just add the mod,if you don't, ... jjust don't get it !

natural entrances ? maybe when I have underground caves, and donjons (if I someday put dungeons underground) I was looking recently at algorithmes to get ridged perlin noise to make underground cave networks !

as to the oxygen mod, I think the way it works doesn't really match what I want, but maybe sometime (if people ask for it), I'll try to add compatibility.
kiba wrote:An idea: each subsequent layer of subsurface is harder to dig through.

Not actually realistic, I think, but it does poses a challenge to players and force them to economize and think a little bit more. After all, building underground spaces in RL is relatively rare to constructing buildings above ground.

Also, on ore generation, one could have different rate of rock formation as you went further down....
having each layer bde harder to dig yould pose one huge problem : I would have to eather have one type of wall per level (making the infinitly deep use of my mod impossible) or change the deconstruction speed of the player (using force switching) but this also yould pose a problem : all things would be slower to remove ...

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Re: [WIP][0.12.22+] Subsurfaces 0.0.3 : build beneath your base

Post by kiba »

StanFear wrote:
Natha wrote:Hi,

having each layer bde harder to dig yould pose one huge problem : I would have to eather have one type of wall per level (making the infinitly deep use of my mod impossible) or change the deconstruction speed of the player (using force switching) but this also yould pose a problem : all things would be slower to remove ...
Workaround idea: create ten kind of walls which ranges in difficulty, and then for each layer, increase asymptotically the distribution of difficult walls.

For example, the first level is that there is zero percent change of difficult walls.

Level 10, would have 1% of very hard wall, 10% of level 2 difficult walls.

This won't be unlimited in practice, but I doubt players will try very hard to dig ultra-deep.

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Re: [WIP][0.12.22+] Subsurfaces 0.0.3 : build beneath your base

Post by orzelek »

There was an attempt to redo RSO a bit to allow for underground ore generation on separate rules - I'm not sure whats the progress on it. It was started by yeganer but I haven't heard from him from some time.

Considering the fact that underground seems quite popular I could try to make RSO work a bit nicer with additional surfaces allowing separate configuration for them. There was an idea that other mods would deliver ore configuration through external interface and thats what would be needed probably for this feature to work. There are some potential quirks with this so it could get tricky in long run (I can think about to many of them to start listing;) ).

MAking this hardcoded into RSO could be simpler - some of the problems might still exist.

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Re: [WIP][0.12.22+] Subsurfaces 0.0.3 : build beneath your base

Post by jorgenRe »

orzelek wrote:There was an attempt to redo RSO a bit to allow for underground ore generation on separate rules - I'm not sure whats the progress on it. It was started by yeganer but I haven't heard from him from some time.

Considering the fact that underground seems quite popular I could try to make RSO work a bit nicer with additional surfaces allowing separate configuration for them. There was an idea that other mods would deliver ore configuration through external interface and thats what would be needed probably for this feature to work. There are some potential quirks with this so it could get tricky in long run (I can think about to many of them to start listing;) ).

MAking this hardcoded into RSO could be simpler - some of the problems might still exist.
What would be best would be if there was this main config for each ore then each surface could apply a multiplier to each ore. Thats atleast what i would do :)!
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Thanks for listening to our suggestions, devs :D!
I would jump of joy if we could specify which tiles spawned in a surfaces

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Re: [WIP][0.12.22+] Subsurfaces 0.0.3 : build beneath your base

Post by kiba »

StanFear wrote: I won't be implementing automation to the current mobile borer, so go ahead, code it, you also can automatically set the borer speed to 1 when placed, that way, it'll go on until it is missing fuel, and in the direction you set it !
It didn't work like that, I am afraid.

I set it to one, but it stopped and appears to use no fuel. I set it to speed 10, and even then it's not indefinite movement with fuel usage..

Also, it doesn't mine while it's running either.

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