[0.12.3+ WIP] Deep Ores

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Darloth
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[0.12.3+ WIP] Deep Ores

Post by Darloth »

I enjoyed a game with endless resources recently, but the problem was they were just TOO endless. Any reasonable field produced enough at the low yield end to sustain me for ages.

Additionally, everything was endless - even everything I added from mods, and coal, and especially uranium, etc.

Here's an attempt to rectify that and add at least a little interesting new gameplay: Deep ores.

The idea is certainly nothing original, but I haven't seen one recently.

The mod adds a new set of resources which, when mined, produce standard ores like iron or copper. Unlike standard iron or copper, the patches of deep ore are infinite, and only deplete down to 25% yield. They also take significantly longer to deplete than oil does (at the moment each tile contains on average about 3000 units of ore). To counter this, they're rather difficult to mine (with a hardness of 2) so it takes ages with even an upgraded mining drill. The mod (will eventually) add a deep miner to counteract this, which will need some steel and a couple of normal mining drills, and have a high mining power but a slightly lower mining speed, with no range past its own footprint, so it should be (slightly) slower and (considerably) more expensive at mining surface ores.

Additionally, deep ores rarely produce stone instead of the ore. I might or might not also have them sometimes produce dirt if Yuoki's set is installed, opinions please? As a followup to that, does anyone know if it's possible to produce more than one type at the same time? I presume not, but it would be nice if the stone and the dirt was a byproduct rather than a sometimes replacement of the output.

Here's a work in progress version that only contains iron - I know that's not exactly great, but I've run out of time for today and I thought I'd get some feedback from anyone who reads this subsection :)

Things to do before the mod is ready to move out of here and be properly released:
  • Write a proper mod template instead of this rambling post :)
  • Add Copper (done) and maybe support for other things. Ideally stuff you need a lot of would have a deep ore, but rare things would not and would always be expendable. I'd like to have configs for some of bobs ores and maybe also some from dytech. I will not be adding a deep ore for coal (use oil instead!), Yuoki's interesting blue or green chunks (they seem rareish, don't want too much of them) or gems or anything like that.
  • (done) Add deep drill miner - going to reuse and upscale the burner miner as it has a nice animation, I think, but offers of art for this would be much appreciated. any large vertical drill or borehole would be good.
  • Potentially, add better ore graphics. Right now I just have a slightly textured black background to differentiate them from surface ores, and it... usually sortof works.
  • Get some opinions on balance, play at least up to blue science with it.
  • (done, see below) Write an RSO script set for them.
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Re: [0.12.3+ WIP] Deep Ores

Post by darkshadow1809 »

Very awesome concept man :) Looking forward to seeing this stuff in action! Since many of my users do not like endless resources I would like to give this a spin if it has mod support ;) !

Goodluck and keep on doing what you do!
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Darloth
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Re: [0.12.3+ WIP] Deep Ores

Post by Darloth »

Updated, added copper and deep extraction drill, also wrote an RSO config which I'll attach to this post. You'll have to hook it up yourself in resourceconfigs/mainconfig.lua though.

The ore generation does not work as well in RSO, but it is there and it does work.

In both vanilla and RSO, you'll often find deep ores near the same ore on the surface. Since this mod flat out adds more sources of ore, I recommend turning down the frequency and possibly also size of the original ores to compensate.

Please comment if you try it - I'd really appreciate knowing what you think about it, your thoughts on balance, whether it's fun or not, anything.
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orzelek
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Re: [0.12.3+ WIP] Deep Ores

Post by orzelek »

Question:
I can see you created RSO config using fluid settings while original ores are of resource type.
Can you tell me what you are trying to achieve there?

I can add the config to RSO and yeganer is working on version that will have external interface for that.

Darloth
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Re: [0.12.3+ WIP] Deep Ores

Post by Darloth »

Even with the size set really low, RSO makes patches of many many tiles whenever you use the Ore type. (Size max 1 gave me a roughly 5x5 pile of ore.)
Additionally, you can't specify a random Richness on an Ore type resource, which doesn't work so well when deep ores should be distributed in tiny little patches here and there.

Ideally, I'd like clusters of 4-5 tiles all glommed together, with another 4-5 tiles a short distance away. I couldn't achieve that in vanilla, so I went for singular tiles of ore scattered infrequently around the edges of other fields, or in a 'field' of their own.

In RSO, the best way to replicate these variable yield single tiles is using the logic for oil, which means using the Liquid type.

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Re: [0.12.3+ WIP] Deep Ores

Post by orzelek »

I think that what you require would require separate generation algorithm.
Current one when creating few tile high resource fields is treated as buggy currently by people - that kind of fields look strange and it seems thats the field type you would be interested in :D

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Re: [0.12.3+ WIP] Deep Ores

Post by Darloth »

It's working fine as liquid, and they're infinite anyway.

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Re: [0.12.3+ WIP] Deep Ores

Post by Degraine »

With regard to producing stone/dirt in addition to the main ore type, I believe the probabilities are checked independently, so any ore entity automatically has the potential to produce multiple ore types simultaneously.

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Re: [0.12.3+ WIP] Deep Ores

Post by TerrisH »

was just about to comment on the production of stone/dirt myself.
I would think it would be possible, considering the Vanilla game dose something similar already. If you got a Mining drill in vanilla and place it on the edge between two different resources, It will Spit out both resources.

Darloth
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Re: [0.12.3+ WIP] Deep Ores

Post by Darloth »

But not at the same time - mining drills pick an ore patch (once every 5 units I think) and mine that single patch for a bit, so on a mixed deposit of ore, you get 5 of one thing then 5 of another, then maybe 10 of one thing, back to 5 of the other...

Deep ores can randomly produce as output both ore AND stone in the same mining cycle, and the amount of ore per cycle is also random.

For a better (non-random) example, see bob's ores, where Galena produces one of each of lead and nickel per cycle.

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Re: [0.12.3+ WIP] Deep Ores

Post by DreamSmith »

Nice mod, would it be possable to lower the pitch of the noise?

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Re: [0.12.3+ WIP] Deep Ores

Post by AlexTheNotsogreat »

I think I'll wait for some more development before I try this. Looks very cool though! :!:

Darloth
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Re: [0.12.3+ WIP] Deep Ores

Post by Darloth »

DreamSmith wrote:Nice mod, would it be possable to lower the pitch of the noise?
Probably. I just used the transport belt sound and made it a little louder. I'll see what I can do.
AlexTheNotsogreat wrote:I think I'll wait for some more development before I try this. Looks very cool though! :!:
What extra development would you like? A generous person has offered me some graphics, but they're not quite ready yet. The mod has both iron and copper right now, spawned either in vanilla or with optional RSO configs, and I'm still slowly working through a playthrough of bobs mods to try and determine which of those I should actually spawn.

The thing I most need feedback on is balance, and "more development" isn't going to really help that, only people actually trying it and giving me their opinions on whether there's too much ore, not enough, or just right.

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Re: [0.12.3+ WIP] Deep Ores

Post by orzelek »

I had an idea but it would be quite ambitious one.

To involve the resource monitor mod also and make the deep ores actually hidden in places different then over-ground ore. You'd need to use resource monitor then to locate the ores from larger distance (they would be still easily found if you try to place an underground drill on them since they would show up on output).

This might require a lot of work - not sure if actual game play value would be worth it.

I'm doing a bob's play through myself but didn't add this mod.. might consider adding it to running game and see how it behaves.

I'd certainly recommend adding tin and galena(and nickel if present) to underground resources - with new way of making electronics those become main stream resources.

Darloth
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Re: [0.12.3+ WIP] Deep Ores

Post by Darloth »

Was thinking about Galena - but there's just so MUCH tin on the surface...

That said, I imagine that issue is a lot less prevalent with RSO, so yeah, I should at the very least write a config for it. I'll see if I can get it working for copper, iron, tin, galena, optionally nickel. Stone is covered since they all produce it as a byproduct, and coal is specifically not provided. I've not played Dytech and don't currently intend to (just not enough time), so if anyone wants to give me suggestions for different ores it uses that shouldn't be too rare, that would be great too.

Orzelek: If you do add it to a running game, please let me know if it works. I haven't tested it (but I can't see it going wrong, it's just new resources and a new recipe, no technology, so I don't think it needs a migration lua)

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Re: [0.12.3+ WIP] Deep Ores

Post by orzelek »

Darloth wrote:Was thinking about Galena - but there's just so MUCH tin on the surface...

That said, I imagine that issue is a lot less prevalent with RSO, so yeah, I should at the very least write a config for it. I'll see if I can get it working for copper, iron, tin, galena, optionally nickel. Stone is covered since they all produce it as a byproduct, and coal is specifically not provided. I've not played Dytech and don't currently intend to (just not enough time), so if anyone wants to give me suggestions for different ores it uses that shouldn't be too rare, that would be great too.

Orzelek: If you do add it to a running game, please let me know if it works. I haven't tested it (but I can't see it going wrong, it's just new resources and a new recipe, no technology, so I don't think it needs a migration lua)
About tin: you'll need it. I did boost it specifically in last RSO release for bob's mods. I do not play without RSO so my knowledge about resource layouts for vanilla is scarce. Galena is also needed for same reasons as tin - both of those are now used in electronic boards production. And you'll need them quite early with bob's mods.

One thing for me is - if you have few nodes it's simply not worth to put up a train for them. This means it might get ignored especially when used with RSO.
From what I noticed people are expecting big and rare fields from RSO to make the depot building worth it.

Darloth
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Re: [0.12.3+ WIP] Deep Ores

Post by Darloth »

People are welcome to adjust richness / sizes etc, but since they pretty much use the oil patch routines in RSO, they tend to generate in tighter clumpier fields there anyway - often with a sprawl of low to medium richness surface ore too. It seemed fine to me when I tried generating some maps, but we'll see.

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Re: [0.12.3+ WIP] Deep Ores

Post by nepsis »

I think the best solution would to be to make prototypes for all the ores and just allow the user to pick and choose in the config. Maybe default is galena and tin but users could turn on rutile or bauxite or any of the ores that are enabled for some reason. I was already looking through the code and making my own mini branch of it that supports bobs ores. I'm will doing a check in data-updates when I enable the bob's ore prototypes

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Re: [0.12.3+ WIP] Deep Ores

Post by CorrettoSambuca »

This looks really interesting.
To be honest, I'd be OK with spread out, small fields: just have a train collect from multiples at a time.
Unfortunately, I don't have the time to check it out right now.

Also, you might consider moving this to the "complete" mods thread, since it only really needs balancing: right now, it's feature-complete, at least relative to vanilla...

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Re: [0.12.3+ WIP] Deep Ores

Post by Ranakastrasz »

Would it be possible to include the base deep-hole sprite sheet, so that I could add ores manually without them looking like rubbish?
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