[MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

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luffe
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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by luffe » Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:38 pm

Is it safe to assume that this mod should be compatible with most other mods? I'm thinking of adding it to my game with shadowmegamodpack.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by UberWaffe » Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:17 pm

Timeslice wrote:Unlike vanilla labs your labs don't have module slots. Was this a deliberate decision, or an oversight? Or have you changed it and I'm just dumb?
It was a deliberate decision on my part, as the general design philosophy is "Up the science cost", and I felt that modules just counteract this.
luffe wrote:Is it safe to assume that this mod should be compatible with most other mods? I'm thinking of adding it to my game with shadowmegamodpack.
It should be safe to use with most if not all other mods. At worst (in the newest version) it should just not adjust their research cost (and that should only happen if they add entirely new science packs).

If there are any conflicts, please let me know. ;)

Also, I realize the promised update is more than a month overdue, but we've really been pushing at work since we plan to have the first trial runs of our service in January. So I've not played much Factorio or spent a lot of time on modding it.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by cengbrecht » Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:38 pm

@UberWaffle

I am noticing with Bob's Mods, that his MK2 LAB is using Blue research, Dark blue, and that they use significantly less power, could you add a third tier of research that replaces this, or add it to the available slot in the Quantum Lab?
I will get a screenshot. :)
screenshot.000045.png
Quantum Lab - No Dark blue - Way more power 2MW
screenshot.000045.png (64.05 KiB) Viewed 4935 times
screenshot.000046.png
MK2 Lab - Dark blue, way less power 75Kw
screenshot.000046.png (62.88 KiB) Viewed 4935 times

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by cengbrecht » Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:41 pm

UberWaffe wrote:
Timeslice wrote:Unlike vanilla labs your labs don't have module slots. Was this a deliberate decision, or an oversight? Or have you changed it and I'm just dumb?
It was a deliberate decision on my part, as the general design philosophy is "Up the science cost", and I felt that modules just counteract this.
luffe wrote:Is it safe to assume that this mod should be compatible with most other mods? I'm thinking of adding it to my game with shadowmegamodpack.
It should be safe to use with most if not all other mods. At worst (in the newest version) it should just not adjust their research cost (and that should only happen if they add entirely new science packs).

If there are any conflicts, please let me know. ;)

Also, I realize the promised update is more than a month overdue, but we've really been pushing at work since we plan to have the first trial runs of our service in January. So I've not played much Factorio or spent a lot of time on modding it.
I agree that we shouldn't have module slots in the research bays. I only used them since I have them. :P

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by cengbrecht » Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:45 pm

Also, our playtime is HUGE now thanks to this mod. :P HAHAHAAH its awesome!
screenshot.000048.png
Playtime and kills.
screenshot.000048.png (122.13 KiB) Viewed 4932 times
HAHAHAHA I also only just noticed its the 1337 DAY! Woot!

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by UberWaffe » Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:45 pm

cengbrecht wrote:@UberWaffle

I am noticing with Bob's Mods, that his MK2 LAB is using Blue research, Dark blue, and that they use significantly less power, could you add a third tier of research that replaces this, or add it to the available slot in the Quantum Lab?
I will get a screenshot. :)
screenshot.000045.png
screenshot.000046.png
Thanks for the report. I'll take a look at it once I get time to dig into this mod again.
I'm kind-of waiting for 0.13 before getting into Factorio again.
I've logged an issue for it on github. https://github.com/UberWaffe/ScienceCos ... r/issues/4

It will be something like

Code: Select all

-- Make Lab Mk2 consume more power than Quantum lab.
	data.raw["lab"]["lab-2"].energy_usage = "2MW"
added to the

Code: Select all

if (bobIsAbout == true) then
statement in 'ScienceCostTweaker\tweaks\bobsmods\2_final.lua'

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by Madd_Mugsy » Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:12 pm

Hi! Great mod so far :)

I got up to Battery using bob's mods and discovered that none of the new science pack items were added to my recipes.

I fixed it by adding this line to tweaks/bobsmods/2_final.lua:

require("tweaks.newintermediates")

I thought this was weird because it's in the 0_initial file, but this seemed to fix it.

Cheers!

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by UberWaffe » Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:13 am

@Madd_Mugsy
That is bizarre. I'll retest that, it should be fine with it in 0_initial.

Thanks for the bug report.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by OvermindDL1 » Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:25 pm

UberWaffe wrote:@Madd_Mugsy
That is bizarre. I'll retest that, it should be fine with it in 0_initial.

Thanks for the bug report.
The file tweaks/bobsmods/2_final.lua contains:

Code: Select all

bobIsAbout = true
if (data.raw["item"]["resin"] == nil or data.raw["item"]["glass"] == nil or data.raw["item"]["silicon-wafer"] == nil or data.raw["item"]["brass-alloy"] == nil) then
	require("tweaks.vanilla.2_final")
	bobIsAbout = false
end
Which does work.

The file tweaks/bobsmods/0_initial.lua also contains:

Code: Select all

bobIsAbout = true
if (data.raw["item"]["resin"] == nil or data.raw["item"]["glass"] == nil or data.raw["item"]["silicon-wafer"] == nil or data.raw["item"]["brass-alloy"] == nil) then
	require("tweaks.vanilla.0_initial")
	bobIsAbout = false
end
However your info.json contains:

Code: Select all

"dependencies": ["base >= 0.12.0","? bobelecoveride >= 0.12.0","? UberTweaks >= 0.0.1", "? peacemod"],
Which if bobelecoveride is not included then it will run in a somewhat random order with bobsmods, thus 0_initial will not detect those and 0_final will, and in my case (like the prior person) it is loading 'after' this mod. The issue is that "bobelecoveride" does not exist, I think you meant to put "bobelectronics" as that is the internal name of the "Bob's Electronics" mod that replaced the "Bob's Electronics Override" mod. Changing the dependencies line in your info.json file to this:

Code: Select all

"dependencies": ["base >= 0.12.0","? bobelectronics >= 0.12.0","? bobplates >= 0.12.0","? UberTweaks >= 0.0.1", "? peacemod"],
seems to have fixed it.

EDIT1: Hold on, that fixed it some of the time, sec while I examine this detection to see which mod should really be looked at first...

EDIT2: I went through all the items you were checking for and they were pulling from bobelectronics and bobplates, thus the correct dependencies line is this (I also corrected the above one to prevent questions):

Code: Select all

"dependencies": ["base >= 0.12.0","? bobelectronics >= 0.12.0","? bobplates >= 0.12.0","? UberTweaks >= 0.0.1", "? peacemod"],
This now seems to work in all cases.

EDIT3: If anyone wants the 0.12.11 mod version with the fixed bob dependencies for when you play with bobs mods until the mod itself is fixed, you can download it at: http://overminddl1.com/Factorio/mods/Sc ... .12.11.zip
It also includes the prior listed addition to the Bob's lab that takes dark blue so it takes a larger power as well (should probably be larger still, especially as it supports modules, maybe modules should be disabled from all of Bob's labs actually... and the new science packs ScienceOverhaulModded too...).

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by UberWaffe » Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:54 pm

@OvermindDL1

Wow! Thanks for that. I appreciate the effort and time taken to debug and fix this.
I had completely forgotten to update those dependencies since the (no longer recent) changes to electronics in Bob's mods.
OvermindDL1 wrote:... Which if bobelecoveride is not included then it will run in a somewhat random order with bobsmods, ...
This might also explain the periodic multiplayer desyncs I was having that I was unable to trace.
I'll put out a hotfix version for this later today.

Version with updated recipes for new Bob's Mods science packs and stats for new Bob's Mods labs is probably still a ways off.
I do not yet have a good idea what to change those to.

Suggestions are welcome.
Currently I'm leaning towards making it cost the same as now except replace the express transport belt with other alloys and advanced materials.

EDIT: Hotfix version 0.12.12 is up on the original post.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by GeekWere » Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:58 am

Hey, bug report time. Was having an issue loading the mod. Error was "Invalid escape sequence" in info.json.

Asked my programmer fiance, ended up removing the text in the description part and just having the "" parts in. Works now.

Not quite sure if it's the latest updates to the base game causing the error or my modlist.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by UberWaffe » Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:13 am

@GeekWere:
That's what I get for not doing a test run before uploading.
Yeah, I mucked up there. Will upload version 0.12.13 shortly with the fix in it.

Thanks for the bug report.

EDIT: Upload done.
Apologies to everyone, I need to do a better job at quality control.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by GeekWere » Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:34 pm

No problem! Was an interesting problem. ^^ Thanks for fixing.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by Ratzap » Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:08 pm

This is an interesting mod which I'd not tried before so I put it in with others for an RSO game to force train usage. Red and green were ok but the blue packs seem to depend on oil products a lot and my map is extremely sparse (I'm already mining 800 chunks from the start point). I'm getting the feeling that a mod which drastically adds to the resource cost for science may have been a poor choice ;)

Otherwise I like it, it seems well done and it gets rid of the stock science problem where you automate red + green in one go then have everything researched half an hour later.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by orzelek » Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:30 pm

Ratzap wrote:This is an interesting mod which I'd not tried before so I put it in with others for an RSO game to force train usage. Red and green were ok but the blue packs seem to depend on oil products a lot and my map is extremely sparse (I'm already mining 800 chunks from the start point). I'm getting the feeling that a mod which drastically adds to the resource cost for science may have been a poor choice ;)

Otherwise I like it, it seems well done and it gets rid of the stock science problem where you automate red + green in one go then have everything researched half an hour later.
If you used RSO then 800 chunks is not that far. And with last fix I think oil might be most scarce resource - just need to go and search.
I'd recommend one of radar mods - there is RSO radar or STRS. Both add long range radar that for a power price will let you scan quite far. STRS has longer range if I recall correctly.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by UberWaffe » Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:32 am

@Ratzap:
Yeah, blue science oil costs might be overboard. I set it up for non-RSO setups.

These days I nearly exclusively play Bob's mods, which provides better pumpjacks that can still eek out some decent oil from depleted deposits.
So on my current RSO + Bob's mods playthrough, I also struggle with oil, but it at least never grinds to a complete halt.
(I typically also go for larger but poorer oil deposits in the setup, so that the overall oil is still the same, but the 'depleted' rate is better.)

Also, so far all the advice I have given is useless to you. :P

In your case, I'd suggest adding something like Bergius process mod that allows you to turn coal into oil. Then at least you can stripmine coal for oil boosts.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by orzelek » Sun Mar 20, 2016 11:30 am

UberWaffe wrote:@Ratzap:
Yeah, blue science oil costs might be overboard. I set it up for non-RSO setups.

These days I nearly exclusively play Bob's mods, which provides better pumpjacks that can still eek out some decent oil from depleted deposits.
So on my current RSO + Bob's mods playthrough, I also struggle with oil, but it at least never grinds to a complete halt.
(I typically also go for larger but poorer oil deposits in the setup, so that the overall oil is still the same, but the 'depleted' rate is better.)

Also, so far all the advice I have given is useless to you. :P

In your case, I'd suggest adding something like Bergius process mod that allows you to turn coal into oil. Then at least you can stripmine coal for oil boosts.
If you are playing with recent RSO then big oil deposits will be hard to find - it was badly bugged before and made them 10+ wells (up to 80 or more even).

If you have bobs mods you can already convert coal to heavy oil. Separate mod like one you listed is a solution for vanilla.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by Ratzap » Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:54 pm

orzelek wrote: If you used RSO then 800 chunks is not that far. And with last fix I think oil might be most scarce resource - just need to go and search.
I'd recommend one of radar mods - there is RSO radar or STRS. Both add long range radar that for a power price will let you scan quite far. STRS has longer range if I recall correctly.
I've been tooling around in a buggy to expand my view but a radar might be a more sensible option. Something to try thanks.
UberWaffe wrote:@Ratzap:
Yeah, blue science oil costs might be overboard. I set it up for non-RSO setups.

These days I nearly exclusively play Bob's mods, which provides better pumpjacks that can still eek out some decent oil from depleted deposits.
So on my current RSO + Bob's mods playthrough, I also struggle with oil, but it at least never grinds to a complete halt.
(I typically also go for larger but poorer oil deposits in the setup, so that the overall oil is still the same, but the 'depleted' rate is better.)

Also, so far all the advice I have given is useless to you. :P

In your case, I'd suggest adding something like Bergius process mod that allows you to turn coal into oil. Then at least you can stripmine coal for oil boosts.
Bergius may be an idea tbh. My starting are resources have just run out now so I need something to keep the factory ticking over while I find more things and ship them in. I have plenty of coal. The biggest hassle is blue science costs oil products and you need blue science to get advanced oil and access to cracking. I have a bobs save too and tbh, the late pumpjacks with speed or god modules are just silly but it saves looking for more yeah.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by Ratzap » Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:20 am

Ratzap wrote: Bergius may be an idea tbh. My starting are resources have just run out now so I need something to keep the factory ticking over while I find more things and ship them in. I have plenty of coal. The biggest hassle is blue science costs oil products and you need blue science to get advanced oil and access to cracking. I have a bobs save too and tbh, the late pumpjacks with speed or god modules are just silly but it saves looking for more yeah.
Turns out the Bergius research requires 2 x 300 blue packs. So I'm going to have to find enough oil to get that done at least to kickstart conversion.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by Ratzap » Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:21 am

I cannibalised my older factory to build a new science area which looks like it can keep 4 labs busy except on the short ones. Once I have more resources coming in I'll probably tear it down and do it again. At least now I have a better idea of ratios etc.

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